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Kristoferman

Interesting new deal on the Sony F5

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So this was being discussed a bit in the ursa thread but I feel it deserves its own topic. 

Sony is now offering the F5 for $15,900. 24 month 0% financing.  The 4K internal model. This price includes the sony viewfinder, shoulder pad, tripod mount, sxs reader, full copy of davinci resolve AND the brand new a7s II camera. 

Seems like a pretty interesting deal! Does the f5 record ten bit prores to the shogun? I assume the internal 4K is 8 bit?

So do you guys like the deal?  Definitely an enticing package, no? 

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

That's ten thousand US dollars off! 

The fs7 must be really slowing down the middle child the f5. GREAT deal even for those who are buying the fs7 now should stretch a bit for it. Hurts C300II a lot too.

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Yes, it's a great deal if you've been in the market for an F5 and couldn't afford it before now.  Apples for apples, it's a great cost reduction!

Screen_Shot_2015-10-12_at_2.09.20_PM.thu


But the F5 is a few years old now.  And unless you need to record RAW, the FS7 is basically the exact same camera.  Plus, it has an E-mount and not an FZ-mount.  The FZ mount is every bit as flexible as the E-Mount (if you're using PL or EF lenses) but you have to buy costly adapters.  And, if you want to use your E-Mount lenses from your included A7S II on your F5... think again.  Sony FZ and Sony E don't mix & match. So, it's a weird kit to piece together, in that regard.

If you're wanting a Sony pair, it's actually cheaper to buy the FS7 and the A7S individually. Plus, your E-mount lenses can intermingle.

If you want the biggest savings, the URSA Mini seems to be the best bang for you buck right now. Granted, you won't be able to use E-Mount lenses on it... but you can easily use EF lenses on both the URSA mini and the A7S. 

 

Screen_Shot_2015-10-12_at_2.09.36_PM.thu

 

 

 

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Ursa mini is completely new and early adopters will have to live through it's inevitable bugs and quirks. F5 is a proven work horse.

You can also knock down the media costs by using qxd cards with adapters for internal recording.

Plus internal ND, plus significantly more light sensitivity.

And zero percent financing over 2 years is extremely nice from a business perspective.

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Does anyone know about whether it'll record to the shogun? Sxs media is just so stupidly expensive.

Anyone else have experience with the f5? I was considering the c300mk II, but this would appear to be a better deal? 

Get XQD cards instead and use in a SxS adapter, cheaper and you're future proofing yourself. And yup, much better deal than a C300 mk2!

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

The F5 is a different camera teir vs FS7 just for the internal build quality and hardware, you have to use both to appreciate what that means. For example as long as you haven't used the FZ and E mounts you'll just never understand how much of a higher class the FZ is over E-mount (and it takes PL Glass much better as they communicate LDS too). plus these two factors the F5 has quite a few big advantages:

-Vastly better menus/control repressiveness/UI bugs (can show WFM at all modes, changes iris fast!

-Side LCD panel with controls

-Built-in connections Raw out, genlock, TC, Sync, 

-MUCH higher quality Pro EVF and arm + handle

-Bigger/longer standard V-Lock batteries vs Sony BP-90s

-Swapable OLPFs that eliminate aliasing/moire in HFR/2K (HUGE one)

-SR 4:4:4 RGB codec

-Internal ProRes 444 vs XDCA 422,

-Internal Avid DNxHD 

-The shoulder kit option is superior

-Ability to upgrade at any point to Global Shutter F55 sensor/colour gamut

-Ability to record 2K proxys with internal 4K.

-16bit raw vs 12bit, plus MUCH better integration with raw shooting. (if you want raw get the F5 period. FS7 is a pig for raw and even after that 12bit)

There are more but just replying to the popular saying: ''fs7 is basically the same camera at a cheaper price'' which is completely false. They're different and you choose the one for you. The FS7 advantages are grip extention and internal shoulder cut, E-mount (speedbooster!), and of course lower cost. 

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The F5 is a different camera teir vs FS7 just for the internal build quality and hardware, you have to use both to appreciate what that means. For example as long as you haven't used the FZ and E mounts you'll just never understand how much of a higher class the FZ is over E-mount (and it takes PL Glass much better as they communicate LDS too). plus these two factors the F5 has quite a few big advantages:

-Vastly better menus/control repressiveness/UI bugs (can show WFM at all modes, changes iris fast!

-Side LCD panel with controls

-Built-in connections Raw out, genlock, TC, Sync, 

-MUCH higher quality Pro EVF and arm + handle

-Bigger/longer standard V-Lock batteries vs Sony BP-90s

-Swapable OLPFs that eliminate aliasing/moire in HFR/2K (HUGE one)

-SR 4:4:4 RGB codec

-Internal ProRes 444 vs XDCA 422,

-Internal Avid DNxHD 

-The shoulder kit option is superior

-Ability to upgrade at any point to Global Shutter F55 sensor/colour gamut

-Ability to record 2K proxys with internal 4K.

-16bit raw vs 12bit, plus MUCH better integration with raw shooting. (if you want raw get the F5 period. FS7 is a pig for raw and even after that 12bit)

There are more but just replying to the popular saying: ''fs7 is basically the same camera at a cheaper price'' which is completely false. They're different and you choose the one for you. The FS7 advantages are grip extention and internal shoulder cut, E-mount (speedbooster!), and of course lower cost. 

Agreed, and if all of those things are worth an extra $9,812 to you... (You have to add the AXS-R5 to get most of those features you mentioned, including RAW) then go for it.  I'm just saying... that's a lot of money. And it's a lot of investment into an older camera coming from a camera company that release a new camera every month. 

Unless you really really love the F5, I'm just saying... your money might be better invested into something else.  Heck, you can get yourself into a RED now for under $10k. #4kforall :) 

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

Actually all the features I mentioned don't need the R5, just one (the raw), and that also can be replaced with a Q7 or none at all, just like the FS7. So to compare FS7 vs F5 prices we'll either add the R5 to both or exclude it. 

The difference in cost between an F5 kit mentioned here and a similar FS7 kit is around 4000-5000$. Minus 2000$ if we add Raw as the FS7 needs the XDCA. So they're very close in price now, making it quite a tricky decision whether to stay with a 10/11K-ish FS7 kit or just go with the 14/15K-ish F5 kit with its extended feature set mentioned earlier? A very hard decision (unless your budget limits you to an FS7, making it much easier!)

The F5 is actually a fierce rival for the Red Scarlet. The Raven (which still isn't out for about half a year) in a shootable package comparable to the F5 kit here will cost around 16-17K, and it has a smaller m43s-ish sensor, no NDs, no XLRs, no Audio, significantly lower sensitivity. A C300II is also 16-17K with a comparable package but is smaller and lacks 4K 60P and 2K 240P and internal raw. These are the cameras the F5 goes against in terms of price, marketing bracket, and feature set. 

I also highly believe there is no F5/55 replacement anywhere near in the future at this point. Sony is sitting on these two models a long sit and have FW/HW upgrade plan that go as far as october 2016. I just don't see it as any sort of threat the F5 will be replaced now.

F5 vs C300II is a very, very tough one now both at 16K.

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Actually all the features I mentioned don't need the R5, just one (the raw), and that also can be replaced with a Q7 or none at all, just like the FS7. So to compare FS7 vs F5 prices we'll either add the R5 to both or exclude it. 

The difference in cost between an F5 kit mentioned here and a similar FS7 kit is around 4000-5000$. Minus 2000$ if we add Raw as the FS7 needs the XDCA. So they're very close in price now, making it quite a tricky decision whether to stay with a 10/11K-ish FS7 kit or just go with the 14/15K-ish F5 kit with its extended feature set mentioned earlier? A very hard decision (unless your budget limits you to an FS7, making it much easier!)

The F5 is actually a fierce rival for the Red Scarlet. The Raven (which still isn't out for about half a year) in a shootable package comparable to the F5 kit here will cost around 16-17K, and it has a smaller m43s-ish sensor, no NDs, no XLRs, no Audio, significantly lower sensitivity. A C300II is also 16-17K with a comparable package but is smaller and lacks 4K 60P and 2K 240P and internal raw. These are the cameras the F5 goes against in terms of price, marketing bracket, and feature set. 

I also highly believe there is no F5/55 replacement anywhere near in the future at this point. Sony is sitting on these two models a long sit and have FW/HW upgrade plan that go as far as october 2016. I just don't see it as any sort of threat the F5 will be replaced now.

F5 vs C300II is a very, very tough one now both at 16K.

Unless I'm missing something, If you want Raw, you're stuck to using the R5.  As per Odyssey's website, "The F5 and F55 Raw is not output over HD-SDI. F5 does not have four HD-SDI outputs, thus we cannot support it's 4K."

Whereas on the FS7, Raw is output via HDMI or SDI. 

I agree that there are some benefits of the F5 over the FS7. But I just can't get there with the $$'s. But I'm also biased against Sony colors.  I'd take Dragon footage any day over S-LOG2 or S-LOG3. Despite the sensor sensitivity ratings. I'd rather my skin tones look good than be able to shoot in pitch black ;)

Is it funny that I'm still toying around with the idea of buying this? I guess I'm verbalizing my "No" column and keeping the "Yes" column in my head.

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