Mike Mgee

@Andrew Ok. I just wanted to clarify your statement of why a 8k camera sensor inside a mobile phone phone can withstand overheating but not one from a fullframe camera.

4 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Here is a £550 smartphone that shoots 8K H.265 in a much smaller chassis

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Xiaomi-128GB-Twilight-Grey（UK-VERSION）/dp/B08814LC74/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=xiaomi+mi+10+pro&qid=1594321255&sr=8-2

Why is that image processor not overheating?

 

Surely you are trolling here and can not be serious.

Nice comparison list here

I will put $$ that the new Sony A7SIII coming out in the following weeks will have H.266 in it.

@Andrew Reid I can agree that it is not ZCAM the company itself that is at fault most of the time but the community.

That being said, Kinson is not without fault when it comes to running the company. I understand that the company is growing, but can you at least an updated website and camera details?

Lets take a look at their website here. Flagship product. Claims 15 stops. By who? Can you at least give us a chart showing how the dynamic range is distributed in the shadows and highlights? There is so many combinations of frame rates and codec options, can you at least release a chart like Panasonic did?  They don't even have listed they record to ProRes! Or better yet...crop. You write the word crop. What does that even mean? By how much. Or even other codecs? Prores HQ....BRAW?

But each of those issues are asked time and time again, and Kinson gets tagged in the posts. And they are ignored. Every. Time. What you do have, are what I assume are ZCAM ambassadors, stepping in for him telling you that you are wrong. Or that you are exposing wrong. Or dynamic range does not matter. Or the camera does not crop. 

And that's one of the problems that I have. For a company that is so "hands on" with the community, they rarely ever answer the "important" questions that people have. But what the CEO will do, is hop on and write posts like "I took a Sony NP-F970 and mounted it on my E2-F6 like 10 times. No issue at all." Cool story bruh. 

Zcam is the most defensive community I am a part of. I have never been part of a group of apologists like them before. There are no faults with their camera. None. NONE. You are doing it wrong. Every time. I always see  questions being dodged regarding crop, dynamic range, etc.  Any times hard facts get pushed around it's either ignored or you are told it doesn't matter. 

Quote

Did the camera you tested have a rig and handles, or was it just the camera body?

Yes. Was in a SmallRig cage with a wooden side handle. As much as the BMPPC4K is poo poo'd on because of the DSLR form factor, it is very convenient. 

I can keep one hand on the camera and scroll through aputures on the Pocket4k with the other hand. On the Zcam you need to remove your grip from the handle and press the squishy buttons on the camera.

That's my main complaint tbh. You need to release your grip on the side and readjust your hands to interact with the camera. They really need a native Lanc/BT handle to interact with the camera. And I am not talking about a $400 third party option.

Same thing with the menu. BM has spoiled a lot of people with its design. ZCAM is reminiscent of a Sony menu system. They should release a first party monitor to interact with the camera. 

Played with the m4 over the weekend. Great image quality, trash ergonomics. Trash menu system. 

@deezid How come you never picked up a F6?

One user tested via the same method that Cinema5D does, and gave the Monstro a score of 13.4. Interestingly enough the Alexa got a similar result, but as we all know its the quality of the pixels that matter. Anyway, Monstro at 13.4...Komodo at what...13?  S1H has a result of 12.7 so this will be interesting. I am assure red will be able to squeeze out more due to Redcode and their patents.

So how many usable stops you think there going to be....12/13?

@Lux Shots To be honest I would love to see a  basic skin tone / motion test. I had a S1H on rental  last week but sadly it has been sent back.

Just now, deezid said:

Both were affected, but 6K was much worse even.
Now both 4K and 6K modes are working as expected. Just make sure to turn NR down to -1.
Also, no more banding using the 6K modes.

Thank you. I anxiously wait your footage.

@deezid How was the motion cadence before when shooting in 4k? Is there a difference between 4k + 6k?

16 minutes ago, deezid said:

Also the image - especially after the update - blows the competition out of the water.
Codecs are improved now - so is the color gamut/mapping and (temporal) NR can be turned off now.

Samples / Before/After please

I applaud this race to the bottom. The real winner is us consumers.

@Super8 If you compare the two, the S1H comes off as having bit more depth and 3D pop to it. It's hard to explain. If you search on youtube, there are a few examples that illustrate this. 

@thebrothersthre3 The S1H uses noise reduction in 6k, which is illustrated when they compared the S1H Raw vs Internal codec. The S1H vs BMPCC6K is 12.7 vs 11.9 stops. You can see the difference in the highlight rolloff and the "thickness" of the image. You can also tell if you zoom in to around 200%....but that's lame.

@Video Hummus Canon claims 16 stops of the C300MKIII but Cinema5D pegged it at around 12.8. Which is 0.1 higher than the S1H. 😕 

12 minutes ago, Lux Shots said:

The S1H does have 4K 60p 10-bit internal. This feature alone has my Ninja V being used just to nail focus. If your computer has enough balls to process H265, why bother for files 6x the size?

Ah, I mean if they added  that feature to the S1 or introduced a new model.  Not everyone needs 6k. 

2 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

You editing in resolve or premiere? I've found the colorspace transformation tool in resolve is great. Just switch the colorspace to Arri and apply the basic Arri 709 lut in resolve. 

Resolve. I will have another crack at it tomorrow. Thank you!

@thebrothersthre3 I don't know much about highlight rolloff nor color grading. I threw every LUT you can imagine at it, that promised "smoother highlight rolloff" but at the end of the day I think it was a dynamic range issue. 

I think RAW shooting is great, but I don't think it is the end all solution that everyone claims it to be. Yes, it is great if you fuck up white balance. And it is much easier to fix exposure, but it is something many of us don't really need. I initially shot with the A7III and Sony's busted 8bit codec. I felt BRAW was the final solution to my woes...and it was! It really solved all the issues I had before. But shooting in VLOG or any other proper codec...and exposing properly...and hitting your WB correctly as you should...eh...I can live without BRAW. 

1 minute ago, MeanRevert said:

What'd you like about it compared to your BM?

IBIS + Highlight Rolloff is better on the S1H.  IBIS allows me to stabilize my Contax Zeiss lenses. Since there is more DR in the S1H the highlight rolloff is smoother. I think the default color is better on the S1H...but that can be matched to the BM cameras with ease. 

@thebrothersthre3 No doubt. It is an interesting camera at the moment. But what is going to happen when the new Canon R5 comes out and whatever Sony has to offer. For me it's really hard to justify the camera for the price. S1H + Lens Adapter + XLR mount is 5000USD ...Add in a Ninja if you want RAW and you are at $5500USD. You have plenty of options new and used for that amount of money.

If I was serious into film....I would get a proper cinema camera with an XLR mount + Built in ND filters. 

I could even get a used EVA1 + Video Assist w./ BRAW

If I wanted 6k....I could get a P6K + Mirrorless of my choice for cheaper.

I want full frame raw...Sigma FP. 

I guess if I wanted a hybrid......but now we have the R5 coming out? Why would I be investing in the L mount and subpar AF?

It's hard for me to see who this camera is marketed to. For me, it's main selling point is IBIS + the DR / Highlight rolloff. But for that much $$? Nah. 

If they made a S1X that had 4k 60 10bit internal...THAT would be a killer camera. 

I played with the S1H for a few days and loved it compared to my BlackMagic. That being said, does anyone foresee a price drop in the near future? It is overpriced for what it is, and will only face more competition the next couple months