androidlad

48 minutes ago, liork said:

And how do you know Nikon does not have the same 12 bit ADC?

It does.

4 hours ago, BasiliskFilm said:

10 bit log output - looks like Sony's handicapping may not be very effective

Sony sensors use 12bit ADC in video mode.

Currently this is the best:

https://aurora-aperture.com/2018/06/12/powerxnd-mark-ii-1-to-11-stop-seamless-coverage/

8 minutes ago, BrunoCH said:

On the SWIT website :

“Standard HDMI-A input, supports:

3840×2160p (30 / 29.97 / 25 / 24 / 23.98) 1080p (60 / 59.94 / 50)
1080p (30 / 29.97 / 25 / 24 / 23.98)

1080i (60 / 59.94 / 50) 720p (60 / 59.94 / 50) 480i/ 576i / 480p / 576p “

 

What happens if you shoot on XT3 in 4K DCI or 2K DCI 24p? The monitor doesn’t work? There is a crop?

There's a slight black bar at top and bottom yes.

The monitor doesn't work with 4K 50/60p. I set the HDMI output to 1080p though, it's sharp enough for critical focus.

XEVC codec lineup

2 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

So you are saying the E2 has a sensor in it no other camera in the world has?

P4K and Terra 4K have it, GH5s has its variant IMX299. But none of them put as much effort as E2 into developing the features available in the sensor.

3 hours ago, sanveer said:

That Quad-Bayer HDR is a bit of a scam. It down-resses first (I am guessing to HD), and then up-resses (back to 4k/3860), to improve dynamic range. So the image is soft and not real 4k. 

 

If it's the same sensor as on the GH5s then the 14-bit is not in 4k. I vaguely remember it at some other (lower?) resolution.

Overall the ECam Z2 is coming along as a great camera. If only they could do great accessories for monitoring and recording (and battery life?), they could have a great camera. And shave off $500 of off the price, while they're at it. 

Who told you it downreses? You have the datasheet. Every pixel has a quad bayer structure, it's essentially a 40MP sensor.

The only 14bit readout drive mode is just enough for 4K.

43 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

Anyone know if the e2 was shot internally or not? Its a prores 422 file, i wonder if it was recorded internally or externally or transcoded.

Internally with beta firmware.

36 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

I can't say this test is at all conclusive. Neither camera clips, so you can't really see what the DR limit is on either camera. It looks like the Arri keeps the highlights a little lower on the waveform, but the Z cam's waveform shadows are also at a higher level so it could just be an exposure difference. The different field of view and angle make it hard to tell. I'm still going with "everyone exaggerates by 2 stops except Arri" so 15 for Z Cam is really more like 13 (as measured by Arri).

I do think that the color on the Z Cam is phenomenal. The real conclusion is that the Z Cam's footage is really good enough for any cinematic purposes.

 

@webrunner5 they are both UHD

I can't say I agree. The Z Cam actually looks like it has less noise. Arri definitely has more chroma noise. However, the Z Cam's depth of field looks shallower, so they might have a faster lens and a lower ISO.

E2's noise looks finer, it's a native 4K sensor while the Alexa Mini is upscaled from 3.2K, I'd say there's no drastic difference in the amount of noise. To get a definitive answer we have to shoot a chart and use IMATEST. E2 does show a bit more chromatic banding in the shadow area (look closely on the leather couch surface).

One crucial piece of info is that E2 was shot using ISO160 (the lower native ISO), Alexa Mini was shot using EI800.

E2 has more noise in the midtone/shadow than Alexa, the noise pattern is pleasant and monochromatic.

I was talking to E2 founder on Weibo and he was suggesting that the new Zlog2  is not based on Quad-Bayer HDR, instead it's based on a 14bit readout drive mode.

Sony is finalising its new H.265 based professional codec - XEVC, the successor of XAVC. XEVC is CRF based which is superior to Canon's ABR based XF-HEVC.

XEVC supports:

12Bit YCrCb 4:4:4

12Bit Lossless

12Bit Bayer

12Bit YCrCb 4:2:2 for broadcast delivery

10Bit YCrCb 4:2:2

10Bit YCrCb 4:2:0 for proxy recording

Expect to see other variants of XEVC (XEVC-S) in A7S III and future Sony prosumer cameras.

Metabones is making an EF-X speedbooster along with some other new products, expect them in a few months 

5 minutes ago, BrunoCH said:

It's written on  owner's manual page 196 :

"HD framing can be customized using FUJIFILM Tether Shooting Plug-in PRO or Hyper-Utility Software HS-V5."

Has anyone tried this? What does this mean exactly? We can customize in the XT3 or only in the app? And what customization? Is it possible to create framing guides for 2.35 or 4/3?

@Snowbro : I would say the bottom photo is XT3.

I asked Fujifilm about this, the customisation is only for the computer running the tether software, not for the camera display.

Regarding DR, it's largely determined by the sensor's ADC bitdepth. Sony sensors typically use 12bit ADC in video mode, which means it cannot deliver more than 12EV of dynamic range without off-chip processing or other tricks, such as temporal/intraframe NR, HDR (Quad Bayer and/or Multi-exposure) or downscaling.

12EV is more in line with real world testing from Cinema5D lab tests using a standardised method and SNR threshold.

Fujifilm is more honest with their DR claim of 12 stops in F-log/Eterna DR400.

ALEXA/AMIRA's ALEV III sensor uses dual 14bit ADC readout that delivers 14EV of DR.

5 minutes ago, AlexTrinder96 said:

Is the IMX294CJK capable of 15 stops of DR? 

With Quad Bayer HDR, it's possible.

6 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

It should be using the Sony IMX294CJK sensor. That is Maybe the same sensor that is in the GH5s, heck the PK4, even the Kinefinity 4K. 3 more stops than everyone else is getting in m4/3 is sort of a miracle. And at 10bit. We all know what ProRes can do, and Raw is @12 bit, 13 stops of DR. Hey I hope it is true, hope for the future. But I really doubt anyone is holding back, especially on a m4/3 sensor size.

 

Sensor Type

4/3" WDR CMOS Sensor

Sensor Size

17.3 x 13 mm 

Effective Pixels

10.28M

Dynamic Range

13 Stops (ZLog) / 16 Stops (with WDR activated)

 

Video Format

4096 x 2160 @ 59.94 / 50 / 29.97 / 25 / 24 / 23.98 fps
3840 x 2160 @ 59.94 / 50 / 29.97 / 25 / 24 / 23.98 fps
3696 x 2772 @ 59.94 / 50 / 29.97 / 25 / 24 / 23.98 fps
1920 x 1080 @ 59.94 / 50 / 29.97 / 25 / 24 fps

Max Variable Frame Rate

120 fps for 4096 x 2160
120 fps for 3840 x 2160
59.94 fps for 3696 x 2772
240 fps for 1920 x 1080

Max Bit Rate

230 Mbps for 4096 x 2160
230 Mbps for 3840 x 2160
230 Mbps for 3696 x 2772
200 Mbps for 1920 x 1080

Color Bit Depth

10 bit (H.265) / 8 bit (H.264)

P4K/TERRA 4K/E2: IMX294CJK

GH5S: IMX299

WDR mode is a multi-exposure blend, similar to RED's HDRx.

This guy's videos are a must watch:

54 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Yeah my biggest draw to the Black Magic Pocket 4k was prores and higher dynamic range then pretty much any camera of its type on the market.

However if the Z cam beats it in dynamic range (true 15 stops) that would easily sway my decision. I like Black Magic's color a lot but prores 422 gives you enough to correct anything in post for the most part. 120 fps 4k is also a really nice feature, even though its pretty noisy.

34 minutes ago, DBounce said:

Is it noisy? You do need more light for higher frame rates.  But with ample lighting how is it? Do you have a link?

4K 120fps readout mode uses 10bit ADC for speed, this is very low precision with around 2EV higher noise floor compared to normal readout modes that use 12bit ADC.

25 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

After this came out I kind of lost interest. However new updates in firmware are getting me interested again. 

The Z cam now supports Prores recording. The ability to shoot in H265 and 10bit H264 is awesome too.

They also have unique settings not found in cameras like the GH5 to completely get rid of artificial sharpening. 

However the newest and most interesting firmware update is the new log profile, Zlog2. They are claiming it does 15 stops of dyanmic range in comparison with the previous, 13.5 stops in Zlog. They have uploaded test shots on their facebook page. 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/zcame2/

This isn't an HDR multiple exposure thing either, which they also have in the camera WDR(which has ghosting with enough movement). Another thing is HD 240 fps. 

They have a pretty unique auto focus system as well, which they are still working on. If they can get that to be reliable I'll definitely be buying it. 15 stops is a big seller for me if its true. 

The DR expansion is achieved by using "Quad Bayer HDR" mode in the IMX294CJK sensor, unfortunately only goes up to 4K 30p.

1 hour ago, KnightsFan said:

Prores 4k is 500 mb/s, more than double the 200 on the xt3 which looks just as good to me. I may do some tests to see what the actual difference in accuracy is. The xt3 400 mbps is all i, which is significantly less efficient.

X-T3 can use 400Mbps H.265 for both Long GOP and All-I compression up to 30p.

Upcoming firmware 2.0 will also add 400Mbps H.264 Long GOP and All-I options.

Some love for Canon, here's some info about the previously mentioned Canon FF GS sensor, EOS R "C" ?

Sensor module MOQ unit pricing revealed:

IMX410 (A7III, Z6, Mavo LF) 110000JPY
IMX251 (A7R II/III) 120000JPY
IMX309 (D850, Z7) 130000JPY
IMX455 (future 8K camera) 150000JPY (Windowed 8K & 16Bit ADC)
IMX435 (future 8K camera) 380000JPY (Ultimate all-in-one sensor with wide DR & high sensitivity)

http://amzn.eu/d/6IN9v8B

4 minutes ago, Dan Wake said:

does "film movie cameras" have distortions with backgroung geometry?

Film cameras can exhibit very mild rolling shutter effect, as the rotary shutter mechanism sweeps vertically across the film plane.