baker21

 Sony will not cannibalize their cine division.  Neither will Canon with R5. The reason canon went 8k is too get ppl to buy into the new RF mount. And we still dont know price or specs.

Canon had an opportunity with a new mount, to go All in. And I think they found out Sony was doing 6k or 8k and decided to go all in to get people back to canon.

I dont need 8k.. I dont think anyone does.

Ita great to see manufacturers pushing canon to Not Hold Back. Canon and Nikon for years did a delicate balancing act of back n forth.

Then Sony mirrorless changed the game.

The S series is Not needed Anymore though. Bc all the new sensors are BSI and great low light. A7iii caught up to S series. You got R for resolution. You got standard A7iv for hybrid.

And sony is developing new FF cine lense line up.

So I see a FX6 coming and FX3 coming..

Both will have same FF sensor.  Color science.

Fx6 - better codecs internal ND FF eye AF pdaf xlrs and sdi outs. Anamorphic ability. No luts internal.

$6k

Fx3 - a7siii replacement- pro series. Same FF sensor no internal ND tho new smaller tech would be awesome.  Instead IBIS. Same color science. Sdi out xlr out.

 

So new pro Sony Fx series launched with new Cine line.  GM glass with mf and AF. And long throws for MF pulls. True cine glass.

Sony launches new codec Sony Raw. Gets around red licensing fees. Like braw does.

Sony Fx9 is a 3:2 sensor. It can do 8k with a firmware update. I can see paid updates down the road for FX9 and offer 16bit Raw out.

 

The canon R5 will Not have..

Internal ND

XLR INPUTS

SDI INPUTS

it's like megapixels. You dont need 8k just like u dont need 61mp when u got 42mp.  But it will push the cine line up and lower prices and make sony bring it's a game. But the R5 is gonna be a prosumer camera.

 

Sony will answer with A7iv

8k - 8bit 30p

6k 30p

4k 60p

New Sony  bRaw? 10bit

61mp sensor

No internal ND

No Sdi

No xlr

Hdmi out

Sony will then offer paid upgrades for 8k fx9 and fx6 and FX3. 

 

 

 

Hey guys,

I wanted to let everyone know my experience so far after upgrading to a Sony FS5 in 2020. With all the camera options out there is the FS5 and FS5ii still worth it in 2020?

With all the options out there is the FS5 right for you?  Comes down to your needs but for me it checked all my boxes.

FS5 is light and portable and can be rigged.up to fly on modern gimbals easily.  It also can be shoulder mounted with help of 3rd party accessories,  I recommend smallrig bc of versatility and build quality, and price.

Coming from A7riii the learning curve and all the buttons on side looked daunting. But I suggest getting Doug Jensens course masterclass FS5 off vimeo which took me through step by step to learn camera inside out. Plus also get his vortex media PP for straight out of camera shots. Sooc.

After learning the camera and the PP and slog2, you shoot over exposed in slog so you set your zebras and your good to go.

What unleashes the power of this camera is the RAW sdi output. The FS5 has 3x firmware paid upgrades. 1. Raw, 2. HFR 3. MPEG codec. Each are $500. With these upgrades installed the FS5 becomes a FS5ii, minus PP1. Which on m2 has different color science on pp1, but when you shoot slog 2 and raw or any other PP above 7, then the RAW out thru SDI is all the same.

To unleash this power you must purchase the atomos shogun inferno which I did. This gives you ability to do prores raw 12 bit to an ssd. The cost of ssd have come down and 500gb cost $65. Spots as affordable medium.

The reason I chose the FS5 vs a BMPCC 4k or 6k , or canon c200. Or eva1 or ursa cane down to a few reasons.

 

1. Price - most bang for your buck

2. Auto ND filter - is a game changer. Best thing ever.

3. IQ - with external recorder 12 bit prores raw is powerful

4.  Versatility , I can go from tripod, to shoulder mount, to monopod, to gimbal

5. Battery Life,  I can use BPU60 batteries to power both the FS5 and Shogun 7in at the same time and get about 2 hrs of juice.

6. E mount - I am already invested heavily in E mount glass so that played a role.

7. Speedbooster to get FF look. I can use a speedbooster to get that FF dof with any EF glass.

8. Centerscan - allows the use of my vtg som. Berthiot and bell and howell vtg lenses for video with no vignette. Also use clear image zoom in 4k mode to 1.5 zoom. No vignettes.

9. Slow motion - 2k 240fps continuous prores raw. HFR - 4k 120p 7 sec burst.

10.  Professional and Outputs.  XLR audio inputs and SDI outputs are professional grade. Multiple inputs for professional sound. And professional SDI output which is night and day  better vs consumer HDMI..

For my situation and needs, the auto ND is only offered through Sony.  The auto ND has changed everything.  It allows you to shoot w an extra parameter that auto adjusts on fly realtime. No other camera offers Auto ND.

Its amazing.. truly amazing..

As for anyone who says sony color science is awful. Blah blah blah.. yes if you shoot naked in pp1 or pp2 default.  But you can make changes in paint menu and use Eos HD pp or Vortex media  pp if you need a baked in shot.

But if you got an atomos your gonna be shooting slog2 or slog2 and sony has technical luts to get the images right there w lil work in post. If you are efficient and just have a little knowledge in resolve you can make your image quality match any other camera on list above.

If you are looking to buy Sony FS7 or FS5 now is the time with finding amazing deals online. Remember FS5 is same as FS5ii if it has the upgrades. Minus pp1. Which m2 has a better color science baked in for just pp1. But slog2 and slog2 and raw out all have same look. After all it's the same sensor.

My experience has been pretty amazing so far. With release of fx9 and soon to be fx6. Prices will drop even farther. If your invested in sonys eco system maybe it's right for you.  if your invested in Canon EF glass the fs5 allows you to use a speedbooster to turn camera into FF and gain an extra stop if light. Pretty kool.

What this camera is NOT...

1. It's not the low light king. If u want low light use a A7sii or A7riii w BSI sensors or use new FX9 or FX6 when it drops.

2. Real cinema cameras dont have AF. But that's about to change. Get FX9 for eye AF if invested in E mount glass. If you got EF glass the c200 has Dual pixel AF and so does the C100 new. Version though no 4k in the c100. Also I'm told the c200 build quality is very thin cheap plastic, though I have no experience.

Ultimately at the end of the day, the Atomos  Shogun unlocks full potential of the FS5 and delivers prores raw to the masses in 4k DCI 12 bit raw. The newest $11k at the moment can only do UHD.

As for prores raw workflows, at this time Mar 2020. Prores raw is on FCPx on mac. Windows users will need assimilate scratch 9.1 to be able to transcode on windows.

Avid media composer and premiere pro both stated in Sept 2019 they will build in natively prores raw support. I know Adobe is still working on it and not available yet as if March 2020, and avid media composer I do not know if its available yet.

I can confirm 100% assimilate scratch9.1 works with prores raw on windows and you can transcode from there.

Da Vinci resolve does not allow prores raw but they may allow prores? I dont know I will have to 2x check that or have some1 more knowledge comment.

Once its released thru adobe pp and avid that will cement prores raw for years to come as a raw format .

I have only had my new camera for a few weeks but I have been tickled pink with the IQ and looks I'm getting not to mention the price I was able to get it for.  The camera is a workhorse so far.  Its gone above and beyond my expectations.  I will continue to update my experiences but dont think bc its 5 yrs old it's not able to get the job done. With the prores raw 12bit sdi out, I would put that IQ against anything out there. If u need FF get a speedbooster and use EF glass.  The prices have dropped on FS5 and FS7 but these guys hold their own even to the newest latest and greatest.

 

 

 

 

 

First off sorry for the length of the post and going off topic a bit here and there.. But I had similar choice a few weeks ago as you...

I was in similar boat with decision to add a video centric camera to my a7riii.. I could have upgraded to A7riv, which made no sense to me as I am coming from photography and wanting to do more high end video.  The a7riv kept the same specs for video, except the eye AF in video which is a big deal for some ppl, but for me that was a non starter, OFC still waiting like everyone to see Sony A7Siii .. In meantime, wanted video centric camera, so its was either FS5 or BMPCC 4K or 6K.. Since I was already invest heavily in Sony Eco system with FF glass, I went with the FS5. I got all my GM, ZEISS E mount glass I can use, with a crop factor of S35 ofc. But I also have Vtg Cine set of Bell and Howell General scietifics which are S35, and C mount Som Berthiot Set, 10mm,16mm,24mm,50mm,75, and a 25-100mm zoom, a B&H set of C mounts, and a set of isco 35mm primes. With the center scan, I can use C mount lenses with no vignette..Plus clear image zoom of 2x.. I can also use clear image zoom in 4K as well which means no vignette up to 1.5x in 4K mode.. The biggest factor for me was not ONLY the internal ND, but the AUTO INTERNAL ND..

Which is SIMPLY AMAZING...

THE AUTO INTERNAL ND IS A GAME CHANGER.. ITS A MUST HAVE AND IN A FEW YEARS I THINK IT WILL BE DEFAULT ON EVERY HIGH END CAMERA...

I set to 180 deg shutter all the time, use GAIN, then I am good to go.. As for menus, the FS5 looks intimidating if your new to cine cameras, but after working with it for a week, i literally can operate it in the dark... Its intimidating at first.. Checkout Doug Jensen course on the FS5.. vortexmedia its called.. That taught me all I needed to know for $50 - 6+ hrs...

Now my biggest FACTOR for going with the FS5, was ability of the internal ND, and the fact that I am heavily invest in sonys eco system.. Though with cine gear going forward, until sony releases the A7siii, which hopefully will be amazing for everyone.. Or if they release a new FX6 and FX3 both with internal NDs... it wouldnt shock me at all.. I could see a s1H type camera for 4K from sony with same color science with new internal nd, maybe that is the reason its taking so long. To get the internal ND small enough to go with IS.. man FX9 users will be mad.. But nothing sony isn't use to doing.. How you think all us A7Riii users felt when they dropped the A7riv, which plummeted our prices.. And look at BMPCC4K with the release of the 6K.. Its part of the camera business.. look what canon is about to drop in the R5, though my guess is it will be "canonified" and dummyed down..  Sony has their new S CINETONE which looks great on the FX9. but they can take a page out of panasonic book and charge $199 for the color science upgrade and release it in the Fx6 and Fx3..

The Sony S camera was about low light, and TBH, the low light int he standard A7iii has caught up b/c they all now use the new BSI chips which are amazing in lowlight.

Back to whether you pick BMPCC or FS5, it really is about what job you need it to do? Are you going to color grade your own work?

Though if u learn grading and have the time, you can make any camera look however you want in RESOLVE or PREMIERE PRO.. Back to why I chose FS5.. OFC, the     FS II is same camera with upgrades incl which are RAW upgrade, HFR upgrade, and MPEG2 upgrade(for some reason) ... anyways I got all 3x upgrades included with a FS 5 with a bunch of +++ , a portabrace bag, a high end sennheiser mic of some kind, and the kit lense of 18-105mm f4 PZ was included too.. and low hrs like 140hrs. Thing was mint though and just had one small issue with an old battery, though was resolved and fixed with a new battery..  Not Bad at all for $2300 + tax..

I was looking at the bmpcc for IQ though, and TBH it was really the opportunity made itself available and funds were there and ofc I had gas.. But if it wasnt available at that price point, I was going to get the 6K BMPCC and then slowly build out my kit which costs alot of $$.. It adds upquickly.. But Battery life and no NDs and the biggest reason was, I didnt have any m4/3 glass and seeing how I already owned E mount glass it simply made no sense to invest in M4/3 or even the EF mount 6K BMPCC.. If I wasnt heavily invested in E Mount glass, then I would have prob be writing about how great the BMPCC is right now... lol 

There both great at what they do but as another poster said, they do different things.. But I feel with atomos, the FS5 is a TRUE cinema camera thru and thru..

It's potential is limitless with the RAW 12bit 4K... As long as you know how to grade footage..

And the fact was I also was able to get a Atomos shogun inferno that same day for $600.. got my SDI cables and SDDs through BH and I was set to start learning my new camera.. So far so good.. I love how easy it is to Rig up the fS5.. I bought some small rig plates and monitor holders and I can move the evf around, and even use it on a gimbal.. And if I dont need RAW for a project I got great codecs with low bitrates in 10bit internal.. The AF works for me when needed.. just a s slow contrast AF I believe.. I dont think its phase detect at all..  The A7riii AF is amazing for video, though the new IV has eye AF for video, which is like dual pixel AF from canon.

But only 8 BIT !! and I am learning to grade and 8 bit I cant push my colors.. Whole reason I got the Atomos shogun inferno was to shoot RAW though.  Yea it adds some weight to the camera but with the shoulder rig mount I built its no problem and if I want to go hand held I can. But to be able to use VTG s16 lenses, S35 lenses, and Now that I am going to purchase a FF speedbooster, I can start to invest into some EF mount glass which I will be able to use on my Sonys with an adapter, but I still got all my GM glass, the 24mm, 35mm(zeiss1.4), 551.8(zeiss) 85GM, and my new favorite 135mm GM... But if you own EF glass, then you have the ability to pick whatever works for you.. IF you got E mount glass, your stuck with Sony... Which I dont mind at all.. Tough choices though and tbh, I dont think you can go wrong with either.. IF you want amazing IQ and great color science then go with BMPCC.. If you want better battery life, auto internal ND, and a more robust cine style camera then go with FS5.  good luck with your choice.. I know I went back and forth a bunch.. If you got the $$, buy BOTH. 

 

Also another reason I bought the FS5 was to have the colors match up easier.. I can use my FS5 as my A cam and my A7riii as my B cam. and I can get the same picture profiles and same looks with relative ease.. If you use to different camera manufacturers, and 2x different kinds of lenses and mix n match, its just alot more time in POST to match everything.. its a real pain.. That was another deciding factor along with the biggest fact that I am heavily invest in E mount glass.. And I was not going to unload my G glass for a fraction of what I paid for it, in order to downgrade to M 4/3 or older dated EF glass, though alot of that glass is amazing also.  Pick a system and stick with it. G luck Again With Your Choice.

 

Has anyone had a chance to use this adapter, with the loxia 35mm on sony a7riii or a7iii ...

 

I guess it cant do FF on the 35mm loxia but can on the 50mm..

 

I would like to see some videos of this with the loxia glass..

 

I messaged SLR magic and said I would do some shooting with my loxia set, but no response..

 

They prob. dont want ppl to see the bright blue AWFUL banding that shows up on these adapters..

 

I have seen the taking lenses used in a few reviews but never an in depth review with the loxia line.

 

I am interested in investing in an adapter for anamorphics but I will not accept that bright blue banding...

My 2 biggest things are lightweight, and single focus.. From reviews I have done it looks like my best option will be the isco micro red...

I do want some flares, so maybe the mciro with the loxia isnt the best pairing.. I want some flares, but not CRAZY AWFUL BLUE flares..

Anyone have any links for footage with loxia line being used on newer sony a7r series

thanks