thebrothersthre3

15 minutes ago, kye said:

Both look pretty good to me.  I mean, the Alexa has the edge in a few different aspects, but at their relative price-points the fact that the P4K wasn't seriously embarrassed is really the only thing you need to know.  Anyone who resorts to drama and hyperbole about "unusable" or "terrible" or whatever has no clue.  The LUTs were pretty close and some secondary adjustments would close that gap pretty well.

Great stuff.  

Only thing noticeable to me was the dynamic range difference. 

I think it would be selling better if they had included internal 4k 60p or 10 bit internal. At its price point it would really put itself ahead of Canon, Sony, and Panasonic. 

1 hour ago, scotchtape said:

Yep, would have considered S1 except for the lacking AFC, 4k60p crop and hella expensive lenses not to mention paid firmware upgrades.

It's very expensive to get into for unproven AFC and Ibis compared to bmpcc4k... If I'm going to pay premium for a system it better have premium features and results.  

The Ibis and colors look really good though. 

Sony Ibis is such trash and it's absolutely terrible with my 16-35gm/a7iii

The lowlight performance would be vastly better than the pocket, but I get it. Its a lot of money. You could potentially get around the crop with a speedbooster though, which would also bring you into medium format territory when not shooting in cropped mode.

5 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

The 5 minutes of 4K/15p video ought to be lovely from it lol. ☹️  But yeah that is a heck of a deal for the HD video, and Photo part.

can't complain for $150 bucks with lens tho 

Lots of people dislike Sony color, though HLG is kind of a work around you can use. An issue with Sony is it uses heavy noise reduction past 1600 iso that causes ghosting and soft mushy skin tones. Gh5 is very usable up to 3200 iso. However its going to have noise at 1600 iso and up. Its pretty pleasant noise at least up to 3200 iso, but its there. 

If you are one of those people that obsess over noise I'd definitely recommend the Nikon Z6, A7S2, or Pana S1. Just have to decide what system to invest in. The A73 is also great if you want the latest auto focus, just keep in mind the noise reduction issues it has(may not even be noticeable to you). 

I find the XT3 is a great inbetween full frame and M43. Its hard to beat its internal 10 bit recording at up to 400mbps as well as 4k 60p. 

48 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

Most people have been hostile in response to Nikon Z6 and it doing 12 bit Raw external. Why? That should be a good thing for everyone. 

I know for a fact the Z6 4K video even at 8 bit is better then the A7III's video and I know for a fact that it compares to the C200 that was used at the same place with the same talent.  That's not saying the Z6 is better or even as good but just what I can tell you based on footage between the two cameras. 

As far as having other cameras that do decent 4K comment. What? and what cameras? The GH5 does very good 4K but at what coast with the speed booster and glass you have to buy. 

The P4K is great but went I went to order one no-one had the P4K in stock.  Sony's 4K sucks, Fuji no and Panasonic S1 is great but is even priced higher then the Z6 by over $1,000. 

The EOS R looks good but the 1.8 crop shouldn't even be happening and no way they get away with that in the next builds. 

 

The Z6 is a great leap forward for sure. People don't appreciate things once they come along there is always something else on the horizon. 

5 hours ago, deezid said:

Looks like he used the standard sharpening setting though, yikes. cDNG looks way smoother when it is set to 0. Almost looks like GH5s footage lol
But there is also more detail (and noise) since there hasn't been any fast spatial noise reduction applied.

The ProRes examples show some halos around his face and nose which are caused by the internal unsharp masking algorithm.

Do you notice a difference when not cropped?

The prores does look like mush compared to RAW, though its barely noticeable when not zoomed in 400%, to me at least. That RAW is so sharp lol

14 minutes ago, Geoff CB said:

I disliked  it in Arrival and Solo, and it grated me here. Not everyone has great screens, or watches the show in the dark, or on a Dolby certified HDR monitor.  Contrast is your friend.

I only saw both movies in theaters, but didn't notice anything unusual. I did notice that in Captain Marvel a lot of scenes were really dimly lit to the point where it was annoying. Action scenes mainly.

I've found out outside of theaters its better to have more contrasty shots in the dark. Otherwise compression and bad quality screens kind of ruins it. 

My sister complained about it. I don't watch the show so I don't know though. I do hate stuff that is difficult to see. Works for some situations but for action I like to see everything well.

32 minutes ago, graphicnatured said:

I always liked the look of it. The really poor low light kept me away from it though.

is it much worse than the micro?

6 minutes ago, currensheldon said:

Definitely interested in seeing what these can do, but the problem (for me) with the Z-Cam and Pocket 4K is that still lack the main things I'm looking for in a video/cinema camera, namely internal NDs, great audio, and sensible ergonomics (buttons!). Not a fan of the box with a sensor in it system either, really. 

But I love that Z-Cam is doing the Super35mm sensor with an MFT mount - Can use MFT lenses (and crop in a bit on the sensor) for a truly lightweight rig or get the 0.64x speedbooster and have a wider FOV and a bit more light gathering ability than full-frame! So cool. Just hoping it could come from Panasonic. 

They confirmed they are working on ND's but not for the Z cam E2

20 minutes ago, graphicnatured said:

They are dramatically different. I think resolution goes a long way in how an image appears to us, for sure. I see points for both. It's been said over and over how great those little cameras are, and it's all truth.There's something about them. (OG and Micro) With Ursa you get so many options though. Same with Pocket4k, but they look like the same camera in a lot of ways when reviewing the footage to me.

I wonder if the original ursa mini 4k is more similar to the OG Pocket and Micro 

15 hours ago, graphicnatured said:

We have an Ursa Mini Pro at work and just shot a big project with both that cam and the Pocket4k both maxed out and, yes, in certain scenes the DR advantage can be seen, but for the most part they look very similar. So much so, that to most, no one could tell the difference. I guess it depends on what you're shooting.

I have both the OG pocket and the Micro. Not sure I should keep both, but I too love the image. Even when we were shooting a lot of projects with the FS7 I thought the Micro blew it out of the water. Just a beautiful image.

Interesting, how do you compare the Ursa 4.6k image to the micro and OG pocket?

1 hour ago, dbp said:

Gotcha! Definitely no e-stabilization for me then.

I love this thing so far. IBIS is great, quite something on my 60mm. That used to be unusable handheld.

Another big surprised is how usable ISO 3200 is. Noticeably better than the GH4. 

I like E-stabilization, it adds a lot. It can add weird jitters if you are doing a lot of movement though. 

I agree the GH5 at 3200 is probably better than the GH4 at 1600 iso. 

2 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah they are a smaller package overall than that picture shows. A camera i was amazed at is how damn big the Canon C700 is. Wow. With a Cine Zoom on it, and a V Battery, Yikes, It felt bigger than the old ENG cameras, but not as heavy, which is nice. It balanced well with the Canon zoom, so I guess they know what they are doing. I had just put down a Sony FS5 so probably not a fair judgment lol. They seem almost to me too small.

Yeah the FS5 is really nice and small. I feel like with Z-cam rising that type of form factor is the future.

17 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

What would "force" the FS7 to be "replaced"?

It won't be 8K any time soon. The FS7 is a very solid camera which I bet will be a work horse for years to come. 

I wouldn't rent a C200!

Would be nothing less than a C300mk2 or FS7 (with XDCA back) or EVA1

Why not! If you need RAW its got it internal unlike the C300. 

 

9 minutes ago, kye said:

Ah, yes, vintage lenses are a different aesthetic.  It's common for pros to have two sets of lenses, one vintage and one modern, although if you're shooting higher budget cine stuff then you often hire the modern ones (CP.2 etc) and keep the vintage set for yourself for low budget or personal projects (and maybe to hire out).  It's about choosing which aesthetic suits the project.

There's a new panasonic 10-25mm f1.7 in the works if that helps.  But I fully agree with you, FF has the 2.8 holy trinity, APSC has the Sigma 1.8 pair, and MFT has ......  nothing.  The holy trinity for MFT would be 8-12/1.4 + 12-35/1.4 + 35-100/1.4 and theres nothing even close.  In live event stuff you may be torn between having a zoom with a wider range vs faster aperture.

Some vintage glass is really nice wide open but most when stopped down a notch perform really well. For me the law of diminishing returns comes into play when comparing with higher end glass. Depends on the specific lens in question of course. 

1 hour ago, mercer said:

Yeah it was nice to have. I bought mine way too early and there wasnt enough support (cages, small monitors, port add ons) to put together a useful rig for my style of shooting. Otherwise, I really loved the camera and could find a use for it again. With that being said, I’m unsure how much I would use the 60p and I wonder if the OG Pocket and a loupe would make more sense... it would definitely be the cheapest way to shoot ProRes LT.

And then Z-Cam is supposed to release their E2C model pretty soon for $799 which will offer 4K ProRes up to 30p and 1080 up to 60p. I think with a possible Raw update in the future.

A lot of choices. Haha. 

Yeah the OG pocket is nice. I love the grip on it. But I have mine all rigged up so that its small size is no longer and advantage. 

11 minutes ago, Django said:

 

You misread me. Never said Netflix don't accept recorder footage. Just that they filter out potential transcoders (among other things) by requiring cams that fit their minimum requirements.

Lines are more blurry when you consider ecosystems. GH5/EVA1 and soon S1 are all broadcast ready which can suit certain types of shooters.

Besides GH5S shares same sensor as BMP4K which is clearly "cine" oriented.

Panasonic marketed the GH5S as a video camera. 

I thought the EVA1 had 10 bit 4k 60p, that sucks. 

The FS7 is quite the package. 

39 minutes ago, mercer said:

Haha, interesting idea. I saw a Micro sell for $450 last month. I was about to order it after I went to the bathroom... let’s just say number two cost me one really cheap Micro. 

Thats a great deal! The full HDMI on the micro is really nice. I hate BM for putting micro HDMI on anything. 

15 minutes ago, mercer said:

That is a good deal... just make sure it doesn’t have any of the magenta issues that plagued some of the earlier models.

In all honesty, with the work I have seen from you, a Micro and an Ursa 4.6k, may make the most sense. Why bother screwing around with hybrids if your intent is narrative filmmaking? Especially if you can afford it. 

 

I plan on getting one next year. I think my BMPCC could compliment it well. The Fuji's are still nice for certain types of shooting like weddings, home video, or just for super quick shooting. I'll be keeping them for sure. Can't have too many cameras?

I was looking at the FS5 as well, crazy output for the money. 12bit prores RAW up to 120fps 4k and good low light performance. That said I've always said I think BM is better when it comes to color and the way it handles highlights. Thats a bigger selling point for me.

28 minutes ago, mercer said:

I feel the same. That video of the fog looks great. The video of the boats man looks great... but they both look like they could have been shot on a number of different cameras.

That BMMCC short is truly spectacular and there are so many narrative works shot with them... features and shorts.

I think a new thread is in order showcasing narrative shorts and features from the BMPCC and the BMMCC. This way we’re not polluting this thread, while still showcasing very worthy works by the narrative filmmakers that shot on the earlier BM cameras.

The image is more than relevant today and worthy of showcasing.

In fact, I am seriously considering another Micro or Pocket camera. At the prices they’re going for... it’s really a no brainer. 

Definitely considering a Micro. 

For me right now though the Ursa Mini 4.6k seems like a great deal. Just saw one for $2500 on ebay. Quite expensive compared to a BMPCC but crazy cheap for what kind of cameras it can compete with.