Mark Romero 2

I think I might have just been airing my frustration in general with some of the limitations in codecs in general (on all mirrorless camera brands), and also the overuse of the term "cinematic" by youtubers with a GH6 (or a RED or an Alexa). 
I guess to me one of the big factors in making something look "filmic" or "cinematic" is how the highlights roll off, especially on the face. I can live with reduced dynamic range and blown highlights, just much prefer blown highlights that don't have that halo of supersaturated color around them. 
Of course, as you alluded, a lot of that is how well the operator sets exposure (on the face). But I know with my Sony cameras, if I used any profile OTHER than S-LOG 2, I would get nasty super saturated colors when luminesce values get near clipping. (It is slightly better on the S1 / S5 as far as I have experienced, but I almost ALWAYS use V-LOG on the S1 / S5 so I can't really say for sure that the NON v-log codecs are better than the Sony ones in this regard).
I am still totally thinking of getting a GH6. I could sell my Oly E-M1 MK II and my three sony aps-c cameras to help offset the cost a bit. But the thing is, E-M1 MK II just works. I don't ask a lot of it (just 8-bit natural profile at 30fps) using the 14-42mm kit zoom lens and it gets the job done.
It's the perfect PhD camera (Press Here, Dummy!)
I think if I got the GH6 I would spend too much time overcomplicating things :)

I agree with @webrunner5 that aps-c cameras for sony are kind of at a dead end (at least until the whole supply situation clears up, which should be around 2035 or so, if we are lucky).
I have been waiting for a Sony aps-c mirrorless camera with 10-bit video since about four years ago. I got so tired of waiting I got the Panasonic S1 and S5 instead. 

I'd wait for the firmware update with the Prores for the 4K and 1080p modes.  They rushed Prores implementation on everything but the full resolution to get it out the door, so might have rushed the other aspects of the other resolutions too perhaps.
To me the GH6 is like the GH5 was for ages - half baked.  Drawing any conclusions on the camera at this point, considering Panasonics track record with these things would really say more about the reviewer than it would about the camera.
... and in reference to the video clip that everyone hated the grade on, if you're going to criticise a camera for what one person does with it, well, may as well just poke your own eyes out with a fork because you'll never see images from a camera that you'll like.  That video looked incredibly good compared to some footage I've seen shot with an Alexa!

Not sure what picture profile they were using but I really dislike the highlight roll off in many of the shots. I am going to  guess that it was probably CineD 2 or something other than V-LOG, which from my experience on the S5 and S1, has better roll off .
Not saying I could do better than the videographer who shot this. Just saying that with a lot of cameras this has been one thing that bugs me (probably more than it bugs a lot of other videographers).

Not sure what picture profile they were using but I really dislike the highlight roll off in many of the shots. I am going to  guess that it was probably CineD 2 or something other than V-LOG, which from my experience on the S5 and S1, has better roll off .
Not saying I could do better than the videographer who shot this. Just saying that with a lot of cameras this has been one thing that bugs me (probably more than it bugs a lot of other videographers).

The DR in that video looks like 8 stops. Not so hot, probably user error, I hope.

I would still buy the one that I have now if I had to buy one tomorrow: the EVO II 6K. Yes the Nano is better in low-light, but where I live 10-20mph sustained winds are common and the smaller drones can't handle that kind of wind. I would rather a drone that I can fly back in the wind than one that is better at low light. I shot this video last year showcasing its abilities.
I left DJI due to its very invasive data collection practices and geofencing.
 
 
 

On the other hand, just as I can make any expensive guitar sound bad, I can also make any beautiful beach look like a trash dump.
I'm an expert in ugly.
😞

i think the best drone is the one i already have... i cant really justify the expense of new equipment  every year. 
 

I'm very happy with my Mavic Mini 2. The only thing that would tempt me to upgrade would be a 10 bit log option, or an adjustable aperture, or both (!) in a <250g drone.

The Mini and the nano are designed to come in at under 250 grams weight so that they can avoid certain FAA regulations (possibly other regulations in other countries, too). Hence, the need for small EVERYTHING on them.

The Mini and the nano are designed to come in at under 250 grams weight so that they can avoid certain FAA regulations (possibly other regulations in other countries, too). Hence, the need for small EVERYTHING on them.

Honestly the biggest downfall is content. The millions in front of the lens are what makes hollywood so entertaining, not so much whats behind it. Same with docs, not everyone has interesting content like say the whole tiger king situation to shoot. Look at some of the biggest Youtubers, they are using really basic cameras and getting millions of views. It's why some actors are paid so much money.

It's only 24p on E-M1 ii/iii. At least on the OM-1 I think DCI, UHD & FHD are all available at 23.98/24/25/30/50/60p which is a major improvement.
I agree...Oly/OMDS has a good looking Natural profile, so why not make it even more useful by having a 10-bit version available?

It's a real shame they didn't test the DCI 4K option. In both the EM1iii and the EM1ii this is clearly the best option, with significantly more detail than the UHD readout.

The user manual for the OM-1 is available now - https://cs.olympus-imaging.jp/en/support/imsg/digicamera/download/manual/om/man_om1_e.pdf

I thought they added HLG video in version 1.6 ?
Has to be in Manual exposure, 10bit MOV format and the lowest ISO is capped to 320 according to the manual.
Maybe they hide it as an option if you are not in Manual and 10bit MOV ?
It wouldn't be the first time Panasonic have hidden a picture profile.....

 

Well I’ll be as the old folks say…
I bought the camera used and immediately updated to the latest firmware which is I think V1.9
I shoot 4K 50p so forced to shoot 8 bit and .mp4 which is fine because I only use the S1R as my C cam and only during wedding ceremonies where it’s sole purpose is to cover a third ‘bonus’ angle for the occasional random clip while the A and B cam are on sticks.
Never even occurred to me it would only be available with .mov and 10 bit 4K 25p!
But I checked and that is indeed the case.
One factor for certain whenever I change camera bodies again and that is all 3 bodies will be identical.
Constantly juggling between the S1R, S1H and S5, playing to their strengths and weaknesses.
If I had to pick today, 3x S1H, no question, stills and video.
Proved wrong. Thanks @BTM_Pix 😘

I love how these threads develop.
We’re now onto 4K TV sales outside of the US/EU and meanwhile, I don’t think the OP ever came back to see the answer to his question which would now be:
Buy an OG BMP4K plus a 4K TV. I think… 😬

I think the way the S1 crops in explains why there is more noise.....the photosite to resolution ratio does change in the scenario you described. In FF mode it is using an oversampled 6K image and the full sensor to produce a 4K image so there are 6K worth of photosites being used to produce the smaller image which means the noise will be less than when you crop in where you are using less of the sensor but still creating a 4K image. In that scenario yes, I can definitely see where noise would increase. I wouldn't be surprised if the oversampling is turned off completely and only the S35 (8MP) worth of photosites is used.
On the C70 it would be a different story because the photosite to resolution ration stays the same; in S35 mode the full 8MP sensor is being used and a 4K image is produced; in S16 mode the crop exactly matches 2K so a 2K image is produced. Now if the S16 mode let you record in 4K that's where the noise would increase because now the photosite to resolution ratio changed. 
Of course I could be completely wrong and the noise could still increase noticeably in the C70 in crop mode, but on paper at least it seems like it should remain constant when looking at the fact the photosite to resolution ratio does not change.
The following video was a pretty interesting test of the S1 from a crop mode to noise relationship.
 
 
That is a pretty fascinating analysis. Of course I was already aware of how important getting the exposure as perfect as possible in camera is, but their explanation of other sources of noise and the randomness of light itself definitely sheds more light on the issue.
 
Maybe the oversampling process itself adds noise to the image. I think it all goes full circle...the only real way to know if the C70 specifically has more noise in S16 mode is to test it. At the moment I still think it is a 50:50 chance. Another question is....is there any camera out there that doesn't have increased noise in crop mode?

The S1H and S1 seem to have more noise reduction going on in the 6K 420 H265 modes, looks less organic.
 
I don't understand. On the S1 you can't oversample when shooting in S35 as there is only 4k to work with. You need additional resolution to oversample. Same situation with the C70, if its using a 2k crop in S16 mode there is nothing to oversample from. It could oversample 4k to 2k if it was 2k S35.

It should have the same issue unless there is something that is really flying over my head.

All I'm saying is that I had my son second shoot a classical music trio (two violins and a cello) on the E-M1 II while I was shooting it on my S1 and we were both panning between the musicians or tilting up from the instruments to their faces to their hands, and while the Oly might miss focus once or twice for a fraction of a second here or there, with the S1, I ended up having to use manual focus because there were so many times where either it focused on the background (50 feet away), or it just focused on air somewhere between the subject and I.  There were times when a white box would show up around the performer's face, demonstrating that the camera recognized there was a face in the frame, but it still decided to focus on an oak tree far off in the distance.
Now, manual focus on the S1 isn't TOO particularly difficult, but it is a BIG camera and heavy, so shooting handheld and having to pull focus manually resulted in shaky footage, as my aging hands aren't particularly smooth on a good day, and by take five, I was pretty tired.
I guess I am going to end up getting a native 20-60mm lens and use my S5 on my Weebill S so that I can use the built-in control wheel on the Weebill S to hopefully manual focus without having too shaky footage. Not looking forward to it though because while the S5 is MUCH lighter than the S1, the LCD screen isn't as good and the focus peaking isn't as good either.
Oh, and shooting that classical music trio reminded me how much I dislike Sony 8-bit colors (I had my a6500 as my D cam... if I had used it for only close up shots of the instruments it might have been ok, but I can't seem to get any decent skin tones out of it. Don't know how Deadcode does it).

Well... I can honestly say that I did buy an Olympus E-M1 MK II instead of a G85 / G9 / used GH5 due to autofocus concerns. On some projects I have my son second shoot for me, and I tried to get him to use my S5 and Panasonic 24-105 f/4, and it was so frustrating that I literally got on fredmiranda and bought the first E-M1 MK II I saw listed on there.
And I actually WOULD sell all my Sony aps-c gear and invest in native L-Mount glass (or maybe a GH6)  if I was more confident in the continuous AF of my S5 / S1 / GH6 cameras. 
I keep HOPING beyond hope that one day real soon Panasonic is going to release a firmware update that is going to fix everything. 
 

I'd suggest paying for some 1:1 coaching from a colourist, or someone that is very good at colour.  I'd start by asking them to demonstrate how well they can grade a shot that has some issues - eg, exposure or WB or mixed colour temperature lighting etc.
If footage is 100% properly shot anyone can just put on a LUT, apply some contrast and it will look great.  The test is when things aren't great, and in weddings you'd have those issues from time to time I'd imagine.
Have we forgotten the people that shoot narrative?  They mostly don't care about AF, don't have long takes, and seriously care about the quality of the image.
This forum has a few very vocal videographers (myself included) but that doesn't mean that no-one is out there shooting shorts or whatever.  Noam Kroll shot a short on a single can of 16mm negative: https://noamkroll.com/shooting-a-no-budget-short-film-in-6-hours-on-ultra-16mm-film/ for a shooting ratio of something like 5:1.  That's extreme, but even his original plan of 10:1 means you can do an entire short on one or two cards.
A huge proportion of the people that I see in the film-making groups online are shooting narrative, which is the perfect situation for a Panasonic camera.
Besides, the GH6 is getting record-to-USB in a firmware update anyway, so that makes things easier.

Indeed.
I actually use MF over 90% of the time and with the S1H, close to 100%.
The only time I need and use AF is with the S5, on a tripod, entrances, exits, confetti, ie, maybe 1 minute actual shooting time during a typical 9-15 hour shoot.
The S1H I can't see being anything but MF this year as that's my more 'artistic', on me at all times, filmmaking camera whereas I class the S5 in it's use (as above plus entire duration ceremony and entire duration speeches) as my video camera.
But...and it's the big BUT, that 1 minute or whatever per job when I need reliable AF is what counts.
And based on my most recent tests, the S5 with the 20-60 with my current latest tweaks to the AF set up is not bad at all.
In fact, it worked when my back up Sony ZV1 which has excellent AF, failed.
Answer? Hotshoe mount the ZV1 on the S5 for those crucial moments and double-team it!
Yep, I wouldn't trade my S5 for an A7iv as it's a sideways step and personally for me, if anything, a slight downgrade in various regards except AF.
The business case for the R6 is very good for anyone with EF glass. Makes complete sense. As long as you can live with the potential or even just the fear of overheeating.
I reckon I could take that punt if needs be and if I shot Canon, would use an R5 for 90% stills and 10% video and use a pair of R6's purely for video, but only one would run for extended periods of time so I could...pardon the pun, hot swap them if needs be.
Providing they do bring out the next gen S1/S5 line, I'd say it would be suicide to do anything less so I'd expect the AF to not necessarily be PDAF, but simply 'really quite good and reliable', plus 6k 60p full frame would be my best guess. Probably asking a bit much for them to jump to full frame 8k 60p...and I personally don't want or need it anyway.
 
I shoot 128GB SD cards and rarely have to use a second on any wedding day and that's over a typical 9-15 hour shoot.
If it's been a pretty heavy day, I might swap the cards out before evening speeches because despite the bride assuring me, "oh it will only be 20 minutes", some 1 hour 20 mins later and the light has faded plus all my additional lighting has run out... 🤪