JordanWright

I just watched this video by Of Two Lands, where he talks about why he bought an OG BMPCC / P2K in 2020.  
Some of his reasons were sentimental, as he owned one early in his career and it worked well for him, but he also mentioned that a lot of people are going back to shooting S16, or are getting sick of a super-clear image, or don't want to have the 'crutches' of AF or slow-motion or the challenges and limitations of an older fully-manual camera.
We also had the P4K firmware update that added a S16 crop mode, the Ursa 12K camera has a S16 crop mode, and @JimJones argued that the new Ursa might attract purchasers purely for its S16 mode:
@crevice Argued that the BMMCC still matters, and received much agreement.
 
When the P4K first came out there was a lot of anticipation of getting a 4K BMPCC but then disappointment that the image wasn't the same, and that it looked too modern and too clean and too high resolution.
After all this I wondered what it was about the image from these cameras that attracted so much praise.  I even heard that the BMMCC was a "baby Alexa" due partially to its colour science, but also in other ways too, such as motion cadence, resolution and codec support.
I bought one and tried emulating its image with my GH5 (a project which is still ongoing):
I had a theory that this interest in lower-sharpness (and to some extent low resolution) cinema was a nostalgic thing amongst those who grew up with cinema being celluloid rather than digital acquisition and distribution, but the " cinematic / film / organic / LUT / hipster " crowd is getting younger and more interested rather than less, so I wonder - is this a thing?
Are people feeling a pull to go back?
....to go back to S16?
....to go back to MF?
....to shooting slower and more deliberately?

https://tilta.com/2020/07/tiltaing-camera-cage-for-canon-r5/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=canon&mc_cid=a126d63240&mc_eid=7e584396d7

Looks like tilta are literally strapping a fan to the back

https://tilta.com/2020/07/tiltaing-camera-cage-for-canon-r5/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=canon&mc_cid=a126d63240&mc_eid=7e584396d7

Looks like tilta are literally strapping a fan to the back

https://tilta.com/2020/07/tiltaing-camera-cage-for-canon-r5/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=canon&mc_cid=a126d63240&mc_eid=7e584396d7

Looks like tilta are literally strapping a fan to the back

Sorry i'm a different Jordan haha 

@Jordan Drake is who he was thinking of and used to comment here before the fallout with Andrew.

A new tweet by canon rumors, who I find the most reliable of all rumor sites, says that Canon is open to adding BRAW to their R series cameras.
This would be the biggest company to add BRAW to their cameras other than blackmagic themselves. It doesn’t matter if you care about these Canon cameras or not, every single person should be rooting for this to happen, because if Canon adds it, it forces the hand for Sony, Panasonic, Fuji, etc to add it as well. And when that happens, we all win. BRAW is our only choice for some sort of compressed RAW, because of REDs patent ruining the party. BRAW in more cameras means cheaper media, easier editing, color grading, etc. So, make some noise so canon knows we want this or whomever your favorite brand is. Sites like this one have pushed brands to be better and right now, they are listening and we need to continue to be loud. BRAW should be in every single camera that takes video seriously. 

A short video in Japanese (turn on the English captions)!
It's great that he actually shoots.
 
 

Theres no changing minds over there, they're in too deep. They were lining up to preorder Komodo at a premium without any footage and limited details on specs 

Ive had good experiences with them, sent a camera in 3 times now (third in currently). The first time I called up (although this time I couldn't find a number, maybe covid related?) I explained an issue and was guided through troubleshooting it by someone who seemed to have a lot of information. The first 2 times I had a camera repaired/replaced and had it back in my hands within 48 Hours. I remember dealing with DHL a little frustrating arranging a pickup. This time I have gone through CVP and its taking a little longer as there repair guys looked at it before sending it to BM. Ill update when my current issue is resolved! 

Theres no changing minds over there, they're in too deep. They were lining up to preorder Komodo at a premium without any footage and limited details on specs 

Theres no changing minds over there, they're in too deep. They were lining up to preorder Komodo at a premium without any footage and limited details on specs 

Dude, I'm sorry, but if you take a RED in one hand and a URSA in the other hand you will notice immediately which camera is a toy and which one is not. That's a fact. If you don't want to see it it's your problem.
The 7D it's also magnesium alloy. That's not an argument if we are gonna talk about reliability in different environments and extreme usage. That's where Blackmagic fails.

Holy shit, are we really complaining about how it looks now? It's not going to win any awards, but it looks fine. All the buttons are easily accessible and it's easily rigged up. 
Are we really gonna pretend that RED cameras are good looking? They're boxes with a mid 2000s gun anesthetic. 

after noones show and tell, i feel slightly inadequate 🙄 my last acquisition for the takumar collection for quite awhile i hope is a pentax smc 17mm f4 m42.
This should round out the collection nicely and cover all my bases. After this a better tripod and head is on the agenda.
 

Y’all should read johnbrawley.wordpress.com 
it answers a lot of the assumptions in this thread. 

I've been in the castle but I'm not royalty. I still have the peasant mindset with cameras. I'm definitely not a camera snob.
I generally have insurance on all of my gear, at least if it's over $1,000. I suggest most people do the same actually, Athos insurance is really affordable. 
A few things to mention here. It seems to be 50/50 with people that want RAW vs people that just want a color graded clip that's ready to rock. For the people that do want RAW...they are hiring high end post houses for grading and they will have no problems since they use Resolve. You are correct that R3D's are more universally adopted than BRAW, but in the high end post world Resolve is more adopted than even R3D's!
I don't rent my cameras out and have never had success with it (due to my location).
I will be waiting a few weeks...for my order to arrive! Then I will have all of the test footage I need 🙂
I will always remember when I ordered the RED Helium and started planning a shoot. The day it showed up and I went to power it on with the AC adapter only to realize that it didn't have an AC input. I was pretty shocked, even for RED it was bad. I think the "modularity" is just an excuse to charge more money for accessories. It's actually one of the reasons I want out. Blackmagic is doing it the way it should be done. Internal ND, built in XLR with Phantom Power, easy battery solutions and MEDIA...don't get me going on media for RED cameras.
For me, it's all about data rates and compression. R3D is great but when you have to shoot 12:1 compression in 60p but you can do 5:1 in BRAW...I would choose 5:1 all day. Once you get into those higher compression numbers with RED files, they REALLY start to fall apart. 8K 60 looks pretty poor when you zoom in. I did some internal tests for a streaming company and they were less than impressed with the Helium at 8K 60.
There are two camps. One camp likes things ready to rock and don't care about color grading. They just want it to look great right away. The other camp wants the RAW files but I can always get away with 4444 in Log. The other camp is thrilled with 10 Bit H.265. I mean, H.265 is really incredible for delivery!
 

I think a lot of people have missed the point of this camera. It isn't just a 12K S35 camera, its also a 8K/6K/4K S35 and a 6K/4K s16 camera. It's been designed to shoot in all those formats without downsides. If you don't want 12K, don't shoot it, but it is there if you do want it. 

PRICE
RED Helium Ranger + Monitor:
$31,400 
URSA Pro 12K + Accessories:
$11,500
The new URSA Pro is 37% of the price of RED's comparable offering. SPECS
RED Helium Ranger:
8K @ 60p (12:1 Compression)
4K @ 120p (Cropped Sensor)
URSA Pro 12K:
12K @ 60p (5:1 Compression)
8K @ 110p (No Crop)
 
ANALYSIS
The new sensor technology that allows you to shoot at lower resolutions for higher framerates is arguably the most important aspect of this camera. That and...price. There's really no reason to be in a RED at this point in time. I guess if you hated money you would stick with them? I'm scrambling to find one area that RED would beat BM in and I can't think of one. It was always codec but we might just be there with the release of this new version of Blackmagics Color. Add in the full ecosystem compatibility with Resolve and the fact that it's almost 3x the price. Seriously, if Blackmagic wanted to make a dent on the high end I think they just blew it up. RED is going to have to innovate AND lower their prices (drastically) just to be competitive again. You will have outliers and people that stay loyal to the brand for whatever reason...but if you're unbiased and just looking to make the right purchase, I don't see how RED makes any sense. As of today at least.
Seriously a crazy release and few days here. I don't know if I have ever pre-ordered>cancelled pre-order>pre-ordered new camera in a 48 hour window before. 

It's not a bayer sensor, i'm no expert but the sensor was designed to downsample without those issues. I'd refer you to some of the guys in the BM forum that could explain it better. 

I think a lot of people have missed the point of this camera. It isn't just a 12K S35 camera, its also a 8K/6K/4K S35 and a 6K/4K s16 camera. It's been designed to shoot in all those formats without downsides. If you don't want 12K, don't shoot it, but it is there if you do want it. 

Gen5 colour is already usable with all braw footage ever filmed. I guess soon it'll be available in cam too.

http://phfx.com/tools/formatCompare/formatCompare.cgi?makeA=RED&modelA=Komodo+6K&formatA=6K+FF&makeB=Blackmagic+Design&modelB=Ursa+Mini+Pro+12K&formatB=12K+DCI&focalLengths=

It has exactly the same size sensor as the Komodo

WHAT?!
Sounds like a made up sensor invented by @androidlad
I'll believe that when I see it 😉

https://www.eoshd.com/news/blackmagic-casually-announces-12k-ursa-mini-pro-camera/
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursaminipro
Oh no! The megapixel race has come to cinema.
$10,000 with an 80 megapixel Super 35mm sensor, the new URSA Mini Pro shoots 12K BRAW.
The technology in this camera is practically unheard of.