philipd

I had a TM700, it was not all brilliant, fan noise was picked up by the mics, and the codecs were not great with quite a bit of compression artifacts noticeable, but was much better than most other options at that time.  The form factor though is definitely much better than using a photography camera for video.  I moved to a camera because they supported more formats, I wanted 4K but didn't want to drop back to 25P after 50P HD (in PAL land), and no camcorders in that sort of format supported 4K @ modern frame rates, and still don't.
Unfortunately there is no money in camcorders anymore for the likes of Sony or Panasonic to invest in the R&D to go into bringing anything new out in that form factor, the mobile phone killed them off.  The mobile phone has also killed off a lot of point and shoot cameras.
MarkusPix also loves small camcorders for all the reasons discussed here. 
 
 

I had a TM700, it was not all brilliant, fan noise was picked up by the mics, and the codecs were not great with quite a bit of compression artifacts noticeable, but was much better than most other options at that time.  The form factor though is definitely much better than using a photography camera for video.  I moved to a camera because they supported more formats, I wanted 4K but didn't want to drop back to 25P after 50P HD (in PAL land), and no camcorders in that sort of format supported 4K @ modern frame rates, and still don't.
Unfortunately there is no money in camcorders anymore for the likes of Sony or Panasonic to invest in the R&D to go into bringing anything new out in that form factor, the mobile phone killed them off.  The mobile phone has also killed off a lot of point and shoot cameras.
MarkusPix also loves small camcorders for all the reasons discussed here. 
 
 

For anyone it might help, the separate charger is available in Europe from Panasonic Spares https://www.pas-europe.com/shop/p/DVLC1005Z for £26.99 + delivery.  It is just the charger itself, no cable or power adapter, but of course it works with the supplied adaptor and cable that came to charge the battery in-camera.  This is significantly cheaper than the £100+ for the retail kit.  I've tested the charger with the supplied adapter and it charges at around 10 watts.

It is going to be subject dependant to what can be recovered or not and how that recovery looks and test charts are always going to be easy to bring back from the brink, as you only have 24 values of colour represented.  As you stretch and squash things out to try and recover information, then there are gaps or data being lost, but you will not see this loss with a limited colour palate on a test chart. For example there are only 4 shades of grey, so you aren't going to notice that you've lost 100+ shades of grey due to having to grade it so heavily or due to under or over exposure.  Having a grey scale and a gradient of colours on a test chart will show up this loss.

It is going to be subject dependant to what can be recovered or not and how that recovery looks and test charts are always going to be easy to bring back from the brink, as you only have 24 values of colour represented.  As you stretch and squash things out to try and recover information, then there are gaps or data being lost, but you will not see this loss with a limited colour palate on a test chart. For example there are only 4 shades of grey, so you aren't going to notice that you've lost 100+ shades of grey due to having to grade it so heavily or due to under or over exposure.  Having a grey scale and a gradient of colours on a test chart will show up this loss.

It is going to be subject dependant to what can be recovered or not and how that recovery looks and test charts are always going to be easy to bring back from the brink, as you only have 24 values of colour represented.  As you stretch and squash things out to try and recover information, then there are gaps or data being lost, but you will not see this loss with a limited colour palate on a test chart. For example there are only 4 shades of grey, so you aren't going to notice that you've lost 100+ shades of grey due to having to grade it so heavily or due to under or over exposure.  Having a grey scale and a gradient of colours on a test chart will show up this loss.

It is a large list indeed and the filtering is an excellent addition, as otherwise its easy to pick one you didn't mean to pick and by the time you notice its too late.  Given the already huge array of customisations in the menu I don't think they've left of the option to select the codec type out in order to simply things 🙂 If they just had an option buried away so you can say which codec to use for 4.2.0 and 4.2.2 is all that is needed, this then doesn't add to the list of selectable recording options.
As far as I can tell, Intel CPUs from Kaby Lake upwards support in hardware 4.2.2 at 10bit in HEVC, but do not support 4.2.2 AVC at 10 bit (High 4.2.2), so Panasonic's argument that they do 4.2.2 in AVC because systems would struggle with 4.2.2 HEVC doesn't ring true.
Absolutely how it works, but given the target market for these cameras and the starting price already, I'm not sure they gain anything doing this. Their overpriced accessories just drives people to try third party alternatives, so Panasonic lose out completely, whereas if the chargers and replacement batteries were more reasonably priced they would sell a lot more.
Generally a mix of photos and video, mostly vacations and family events, the odd wedding I've videoed (not professionally).  I tend to enjoy editing it all afterwards and making a short film of the event.  As older generations leave us its lovely to have them on video, especially for those family members too young at the time to really remember them. 

I took my new camera to San Francisco last weekend to capture Christmas in the city. I filmed at 60p and showed the footage to family on Christmas day and I got the same reaction you did. No one said it gave them a headache or complained that it felt like someone peed in their eggnog.

60p looks awful?  Everyone who's seen my videos at 60fps have said they look stunning, no one has said "Doesn't look a film the frame rate is too high".  If people want to shoot at 24fps that is of course their choice, but unless that person controls the TV and playback devices and have them set up correctly, the chances are their friends and family or customers with their own TVs will be watching it like its 60 or 120fps due to interpolation on their TV and it will not resemble being at the "flicks" in anyway shape or form, but due to the lack of temporal information, those interpolated frames will be introducing artefacts and reducing quality.

Hi
Good news, thanks for reporting back, and I've seen successes and failures reported on non V90 cards even if the speed rating suggests it would be okay, so it might be a luck of the draw a little bit. (My Sandisk V30 cards work fine with FHD at 200Mbits/sec but failed after 20 or 30 seconds at 400Mbits/sec for 4K but that was expected). I'd be inclined not to trust anything important to a non V90 card, but otherwise if it works it works.  In terms of backup to two cards, Panasonic have stated in their manual insert update for firmware 2.0 that at least one card must be a V60 or better for the back up function to two cards.
Good on Panasonic for not blocking non rated V60 or 90 cards which I thought they might have done, so the camera at least can have a best effort attempt at any card.
Regards
Phil

Hi
Just because they are identical doesn't mean they are of course.  A lot of manufactures will buy in NAND memory from wherever is cheapest, and even if the same they will be differing quality.  In the same way Intel CPUs are mostly the same with the best off the production line running and sold at higher clock speeds, NAND works in a similar way.  Also as the NAND is used and bad blocks are mapped out, the speed and reliability will vary.  If it works and it isn't a V60/V90 card, it's a lucky find, buying the exact same again you may not be so lucky.
V90 cards are using the cream of NAND memory and a different recording protocol to achieve a guaranteed minimum write speed regardless if the card is fresh out of the packaging or on it's 100 use.  This is why they are more expensive and harder to come by. 
Regards
Phil
 
Hi
Me neither, and the likely hood of the final output being All-Intra is next to none, even if there was a visible benefit, it wouldn't be delivered that way. 
Also IPB in the GH5 codec isn't really that long of a GOP, as usually just 24 or 60 group of pictures is used in the GH5 for a group, in comparison internet streams or higher compression rates will see 200 or more before a clean I frame.  So cameras like the GH5 don't really suffer from motion issues caused by the compression anyway.  
Regards
Phil
 

Hi
Good news, thanks for reporting back, and I've seen successes and failures reported on non V90 cards even if the speed rating suggests it would be okay, so it might be a luck of the draw a little bit. (My Sandisk V30 cards work fine with FHD at 200Mbits/sec but failed after 20 or 30 seconds at 400Mbits/sec for 4K but that was expected). I'd be inclined not to trust anything important to a non V90 card, but otherwise if it works it works.  In terms of backup to two cards, Panasonic have stated in their manual insert update for firmware 2.0 that at least one card must be a V60 or better for the back up function to two cards.
Good on Panasonic for not blocking non rated V60 or 90 cards which I thought they might have done, so the camera at least can have a best effort attempt at any card.
Regards
Phil

Hi
Taken from https://superuser.com/questions/847016/performance-difference-between-sd-and-microsd-cards
What I mean is, we might be lucky and have a card that whilst it isn't rated V90, seems to perform okay, we then buy 4 others the same and find they don't work reliably if at all.
If it doesn't have V90 on it's label, then it isn't a V90 card, so whether it works or not is somewhat down to luck of the draw.  The card could also be so borderline, that it will work for the first couple of shoots, then fail consistently on the third.
The only way to have a V90 card is to buy one.  A card that isn't V90 is a different beast and is written too like a file system, whereas a V90 card switches the camera to recording in a more efficient and reliable way, probably why you have to have a least one of these to allow the camera to work fast enough to write a backup to both cards if that mode is selected.
Regards
Phil

Hi
Just because they are identical doesn't mean they are of course.  A lot of manufactures will buy in NAND memory from wherever is cheapest, and even if the same they will be differing quality.  In the same way Intel CPUs are mostly the same with the best off the production line running and sold at higher clock speeds, NAND works in a similar way.  Also as the NAND is used and bad blocks are mapped out, the speed and reliability will vary.  If it works and it isn't a V60/V90 card, it's a lucky find, buying the exact same again you may not be so lucky.
V90 cards are using the cream of NAND memory and a different recording protocol to achieve a guaranteed minimum write speed regardless if the card is fresh out of the packaging or on it's 100 use.  This is why they are more expensive and harder to come by. 
Regards
Phil
 
Hi
Me neither, and the likely hood of the final output being All-Intra is next to none, even if there was a visible benefit, it wouldn't be delivered that way. 
Also IPB in the GH5 codec isn't really that long of a GOP, as usually just 24 or 60 group of pictures is used in the GH5 for a group, in comparison internet streams or higher compression rates will see 200 or more before a clean I frame.  So cameras like the GH5 don't really suffer from motion issues caused by the compression anyway.  
Regards
Phil
 

Hi
Just because they are identical doesn't mean they are of course.  A lot of manufactures will buy in NAND memory from wherever is cheapest, and even if the same they will be differing quality.  In the same way Intel CPUs are mostly the same with the best off the production line running and sold at higher clock speeds, NAND works in a similar way.  Also as the NAND is used and bad blocks are mapped out, the speed and reliability will vary.  If it works and it isn't a V60/V90 card, it's a lucky find, buying the exact same again you may not be so lucky.
V90 cards are using the cream of NAND memory and a different recording protocol to achieve a guaranteed minimum write speed regardless if the card is fresh out of the packaging or on it's 100 use.  This is why they are more expensive and harder to come by. 
Regards
Phil
 
Hi
Me neither, and the likely hood of the final output being All-Intra is next to none, even if there was a visible benefit, it wouldn't be delivered that way. 
Also IPB in the GH5 codec isn't really that long of a GOP, as usually just 24 or 60 group of pictures is used in the GH5 for a group, in comparison internet streams or higher compression rates will see 200 or more before a clean I frame.  So cameras like the GH5 don't really suffer from motion issues caused by the compression anyway.  
Regards
Phil
 

Hi
That is the footnote they put to that statement.  It's basically something SandDisk has made up for marketing, as that card doesn't show a V rating, we know it doesn't support the new real-time recording protocol and there is no guaranteed minimum write speed.
There are 2 problems with using cards that don't support the new Video (V) protocol.
1) The GH5 may not be able to reach or sustain the required bit-rates full stop unless the camera can switch to using the Video protocol mode with a supported card.  The new protocol changes completely how the camera writes to the card in order to ensure high speed writes that are sustained and never drop below the guaranteed minimum.  The GH5 firmware may even block the use of cards that aren't rated at V60 or better.
2) All-Intra is a sustained constant (more or less) write speed, the card and hardware have to sustain the write speed without any hiccups.  IPB used in cameras is a variable bit rate that allows borderline cards chance to catch up and buffers to empty as the write bit-rate ebbed and flowed so we got away without needing to worry too much about guaranteed minimum write speeds, this is not the case with All-Intra at these high recording rates, it is much less forgiving.
The V moniker shows a guaranteed minimum write speed, achieved using new hardware in the camera and card (for example a  memory card with the V rating reports to the camera about itself so the best writing scheme can be negotiated and both card and camera can switch to a new real-time streaming recording protocol).
Bench mark tests are also going to be something we should be wary of as new V type cards arrive and are tested and reviewed.  The reason being a card may benchmark much slower than it's V60 or V90 rating suggests it should and so look a poor choice for cameras like the GH5, but this is simply because the benchmark software/hardware will not engage the Video recording protocol, so isn't testing it for video recording. The software and readers will catch up in time, but it's something to we need to consider if looking at reviews.
For real-time video recording on cameras like the GH5 the only rating we should now look for is the V rating, it's the whole reason it was brought in, because all other ratings show the burst or average speeds and guaranteed absolutely nothing for real-time video.
Anyone investing in memory cards now for use with the GH5 and All-Intra based on some headline speed on the packaging where that card doesn't show the required V moniker , is going to be wasting their money.  There is a reason why V60 and V90 cards are arriving now and being sold at a premium, they are different to normal cards.  For example Sandisk can't take their current high speed cards and simply print V60 or V90 on there as it's more than just a printed a number and their current cards don't have the hardware/firmware to support the new standard.
Regards
Phil
 

Yes, it is in the white paper published by the SD Association, its a new protocol and hardware specification specifically for real-time video recording, so cards of certain age could never have this addition anyway as it wasn't invented :-) 
It isn't just another way of advertising the speed of the card, it denotes the card supports the new video recording protocol that is optimised for video recording. The card enters a different mode of operation for video recording on cameras that also support this standard. 
Other cards may work absolutely fine but unlikely, the problem is cards not using the new video recording method very quickly in use get to a point they cannot sustain a fast write data-rate without pausing to do other things.  This happens all the time today in the cameras, and it's fine with VBR files not going much more than 150Mbits/sec for short bursts as the cards are faster enough to catch up and buffers big enough in the cameras to ride these drops in writing performance.  When you are needing to push 400Mbits/sec constantly (not VBR) no matter how fast modern cards are at the moment, any pause in accepting data gives rise to a situation that the card can't run ahead and catch up quick enough, and very quickly the camera is going to have a buffer overflow and quit recording either within seconds are randomly as you try and use it.  Cards with the V moniker, like V90, enter a different operating mode that allows them to sustain the minimum data-rate required.  
The reason why V90 cards are not readily available (same for V60), is that it isn't just a new sticker on the same old cards, but actually something very challenging and expensive to produce, i.e. it requires the best NAND memory and fast controller hardware and good firmware on the card with a low yield rate no doubt further increasing the cost and lack of availability.
We will find out soon enough who is right, I hope I'm wrong as I don't want to pay a premium and replace good memory cards if I don't need to either..  However it was Panasonic instrumental in introducing this new protocol in SD version 5.0 or higher specifically to allow cameras like the GH5 to run at very high bit-rates to SDXC memory cards, as it couldn't be done otherwise.
Regards
Phil
 

Hi
Same here, but there is a problem with maintaining quality with 60P.  All-Intra is essentially compressing each frame as a JPEG.  At 400Mbits/sec and 60 images a second to create Jpegs from, that is 400/60/8 = 830KB approx for each image.  Take any image at 3840x2160 pixels and save it as a Jpeg compressed down to 830KB and quality is going to suffer, and that's ignoring the fact these would be 10bit images, which being squeezed into 830KB just isn't enough space to give a benefit, and would likely look worse than the standard IBP at a lower bit rate.  
When looking at 24fps each frame can be around 2MB in size, considerably better.  So the higher the frame-rate, the more quality sees a drop in All-Intra unless the bit rate is raised.  To get the same quality in 60fps All-Intra as seen in 24fps would need a bit rate of around 960Mbits/sec.
60fps compresses quite nicely and efficiently as IBP as it is a higher sample rate than 24fps, and IBP (if the processor can keep up) compresses better the more samples it has per second.  So apart from easier editing, quality is going to better than trying to compress 60fps with only 400Mbits/sec available.
Regards
Phil
 
 

Yes, it is in the white paper published by the SD Association, its a new protocol and hardware specification specifically for real-time video recording, so cards of certain age could never have this addition anyway as it wasn't invented :-) 
It isn't just another way of advertising the speed of the card, it denotes the card supports the new video recording protocol that is optimised for video recording. The card enters a different mode of operation for video recording on cameras that also support this standard. 
Other cards may work absolutely fine but unlikely, the problem is cards not using the new video recording method very quickly in use get to a point they cannot sustain a fast write data-rate without pausing to do other things.  This happens all the time today in the cameras, and it's fine with VBR files not going much more than 150Mbits/sec for short bursts as the cards are faster enough to catch up and buffers big enough in the cameras to ride these drops in writing performance.  When you are needing to push 400Mbits/sec constantly (not VBR) no matter how fast modern cards are at the moment, any pause in accepting data gives rise to a situation that the card can't run ahead and catch up quick enough, and very quickly the camera is going to have a buffer overflow and quit recording either within seconds are randomly as you try and use it.  Cards with the V moniker, like V90, enter a different operating mode that allows them to sustain the minimum data-rate required.  
The reason why V90 cards are not readily available (same for V60), is that it isn't just a new sticker on the same old cards, but actually something very challenging and expensive to produce, i.e. it requires the best NAND memory and fast controller hardware and good firmware on the card with a low yield rate no doubt further increasing the cost and lack of availability.
We will find out soon enough who is right, I hope I'm wrong as I don't want to pay a premium and replace good memory cards if I don't need to either..  However it was Panasonic instrumental in introducing this new protocol in SD version 5.0 or higher specifically to allow cameras like the GH5 to run at very high bit-rates to SDXC memory cards, as it couldn't be done otherwise.
Regards
Phil
 

Hi
Copying files are not a true test to see if a card has a sustained data-rate suitable for high bit rate video, for example the copy may dip to almost zero bps then burst a lot higher, giving a high overall average but would break when writing real-time video that can't be halted or would see a buffer overflow.  This is why they've introduced a new standard so we know the card will work at a sustained minimum.  File copies are different to different to real-time streaming.
Some details are in the white paper https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/pls/latest_whitepapers/Video_Speed_Class-The_new_capture_protocol_of_SD_5.0.pdf  it is part of the SD 5.0 specification, from page 7 onwards it goes into more technical details, and as explained it requires a card and hardware to understand the new protocol to enable it.
If the card doesn't show V30/V60/V90 it doesn't have support for SD 5.0 and real-time video recording, this of course hasn't mattered previously but does now where 400Mbps constant writing speeds are required. I bet there is no current SDXC that will work in the GH5 on 400Mbps intra recording, unless it is has V60 or V90 on the label, regardless of how much it costs or how high a speed it is advertised at.  I also wouldn't be surprised if on the released firmware the camera refuses to do anything unless the card reports it is V60 or better to avoid complaints of 'it isn't working'.
Regards 
Phil

Hi
With regard to V30, V60 and V90 cards, these specify a minimum write speed, regardless of the state of card (fragmentation, erased state etc) which is the important bit of course for real-time recording, so will be lower than the headline marketing speeds.  Also it is important to note that to obtain these guaranteed minimum speeds these cards need to be written to using a different protocol, and the card itself needs to specifically support this protocol as well as the camera (of course the GH5 does).  This means buying a card that doesn't show the V rating, because it appears fast enough based on it's other speed ratings  or some website bench-marking, is not the best route to take and will likely see problems.
Regards
Phil

Hi
With regard to V30, V60 and V90 cards, these specify a minimum write speed, regardless of the state of card (fragmentation, erased state etc) which is the important bit of course for real-time recording, so will be lower than the headline marketing speeds.  Also it is important to note that to obtain these guaranteed minimum speeds these cards need to be written to using a different protocol, and the card itself needs to specifically support this protocol as well as the camera (of course the GH5 does).  This means buying a card that doesn't show the V rating, because it appears fast enough based on it's other speed ratings  or some website bench-marking, is not the best route to take and will likely see problems.
Regards
Phil