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On 7/30/2017 at 11:07 AM, Jonesy Jones said:

5. Use false color to expose your green walls to get it even. To be honest, that corner you've created with the 2 perpendicular walls is going to pose a pretty serious problem. That corner will be very difficult to light properly. If at all possible, build a short sweep to make that corner a curve. 

Thank you for sharing these green screen tips in such detail, Jonesy Jones. Can you elaborate on how to use false color to expose my green walls to get it even?

Thanks for pointing me toward Neat Video, HockeyFan12. Using the keyed layer as a track matte so that Neat Video doesn't effect the foreground makes perfect sense. (4K, Keylight, Neat Video... at this rate it seems it won't be long before I'm trying to make the case to my wife for a new computer as well as a new camera. :P)

I appreciate you sharing your experience, dbp.

My GH5 and Panasonic 12-35mm ii lens arrive today, so I should be able to weigh in with my own comparison between the two soon. I was convinced days ago when I read everyone's replies that the GH5 was the way to go, but it took me until yesterday to order one because I was deliberating endlessly over which lens to order for it. I finally decided I'd rather have the camera and start somewhere with a lens, since my "research"/obsessing over whether the lens is wide enough, fast enough, sharp enough, has dual IBIS (and whether I need it) could go on forever. Hopefully I made a good choice with the 12-35mm, though I'm nervous about going from an f1.0 on my previous setup (BMPCC, Metabones BMPCC Speed Booster, Sigma 18-35 1.8) to an f2.8, and would have preferred the option to go wider (the 24mm equivalent on the 12-35mm should at least be a bit wider than what I understand to be the 30mm equivalent of the Sigma's 18 on my previous setup).

That said, please let me know if anyone has any better lens suggestions for my primary application (shooting a 9' x 12' green screen with only a few feet outside of the "set").

Oh, one last question (for now, anyway), can anyone tell me the ideal settings for the GH5 for shooting green screen, e.g. which camera profile I should use? Thanks again!

8 hours ago, deezid said:

The GH5 would be, since it's oversampling from 5k, but the processing limits its performance.
The best you can probably get is the FS5 with external RAW, it's flawless.

Thanks for your replies, everyone. I'm surprised to hear the consensus appears to be that the GH5 would key better. I finished my green screen studio yesterday and did some tests with BMPCC RAW. The results had me reconsidering my plan to sell my BMPCC setup in favor of the GH5, but your comments suggest that I was on the right track after all.

deezid, do you mean to say that the GH5 would be better, but isn't because its performance is limited by its processing? Or do you also feel it is better for green screen work than BMPCC RAW?

7 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

GH5

I spent all of last summer shooting green screen with the GH4 and it keys wonderfully. I also tested with the BMPCC and was just so so. The BMPC 4K keys amazing, but in our case the difference between that and GH4 was nominal and didn't justify the increased data rates. I haven't tested it yet, but if the GH5 keys any better than the GH4, which it should, then it should be pretty close to flawless. 

Do you recall what your BMPCC setup was, Jonesy Jones?

6 hours ago, HockeyFan12 said:

I haven't used either (at least not extensively) but RAW isn't 4:X:X in the traditional sense of the term. 4:X:X defines the color resolution of the recording codec following internal RAW conversion, whereas RAW has yet to be converted into anything. The GH5 should have more color information to start with due to its greater pixel density and I find 4:2:2 more than good enough for keying anyway. Haven't noticed any real difference between 444XQ and 422HQ for keying tbh. Maybe in really challenging scenes? I generally denoise everything before keying anyway and that recovers some lost color resolution from the temporal denoising and smooths everything out. It makes sense that the GH5 would key better but I would definitely try both before buying either. 

What do you use to denoise your footage before keying, HockeyFan12? Does that help stop the "dancing noise" I often see after keying? Can it be as simple as adding Keylight or zMatte beneath a denoise filter in After Effects, or do you render out a denoised clip and key that instead of the original?

I have a few additional related questions:

GH5 Update

1) Do you guys think the forthcoming 400 Mbps ALL-I update for the GH5 will make the GH5 even better for keying than it is now?

Lens

2) I painted a 12' wall and a perpendicular 9' wall in my basement with Rosco DigiCompHD paint and put down Rosco chroma floor (what a great find that was, it sure beats slipping on the muslin cloth I'd tried to weigh down at the corners). I wanted some depth to my green screen area so that I could shoot "talent" moving around, do and track camera moves and composite 3D objects, backgrounds, etc. However, because there is very little room for me to move back from the green screen area to shoot, my BMPCC + Metabones BMPCC Speed Booster (.58x crop) + Sigma 18-35 lens can't get the talent in the frame from head to toe when they step more than a few feet away from the wall. For that reason, I'm considering swapping out the Sigma 18-35 lens for something with a wider field of view.

Which of these lenses do you think would be the sharpest with the least amount of barrel distortion (important for camera tracking)?

Irix 11m f4 - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1325647-REG/irix_il_11bs_ef_11mm_blackstone_lens_for.html

Venus Optics Laowa 12mm f2.8 - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1283911-REG/venus_optics_ve1228cef_laowa_12mm_f_2_8_zero_d.html

Also, since my BMPCC Speed Booster wouldn't work with the GH5, which Speed Booster and mount type (Nikon, Canon) would you suggest?

Alternatively, without a speed booster

Laowa 7.5mm f/2 MFT - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1337244-REG/venus_optics_ve7520mftstblk_laowa_7_5mm_f_2_mft.html

Panasonic 12-35 f2.8 II - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1304868-REG/panasonic_h_hsa12035_lumix_g_x_vario.html ? I had planned to get this lens since I believe I read it provided the best autofocus and stabilization for the GH5, but I'm afraid it wouldn't be wide enough.

Tracking Markers

3) What do you suggest for tracking markers? It took me a long time to prime and paint my basement walls, and the green screen paint was expensive. I'm very paranoid about getting them dirty or scuffed up as a result. However, I need tracking markers on the walls or else I'll only ever be able to do static shots (since I wouldn't be able to make the background move with the camera without them). Can you suggest anything that would work well as a tracking marker that I could leave on the wall indefinitely and won't damage/leave residue/chip/etc. the paint?

Thanks for your help and advice!

Lighting and green screen materials aside, I'm trying to determine which camera would lend itself to an easier, cleaner key as between the GH5 10 bit 4K and the BMPCC RAW? I believe the GH5 10 bit 4K is 4:2:2. Is the BMPCC RAW equivalent to 4:4:4? If BMPCC RAW has the edge, is it enough of an edge to warrant dealing with the BMPCC's lack of... seemingly just about everything except codec relative to the GH5? Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

Thanks, @wolf33d. It sounds like we're talking about somewhere in the ball park of 6 months from now if the latest rumors are correct (assuming it comes a few months after the A7III). That's right on the cusp of where I'm not sure whether it's worth it to deal with the hassle of trying to sell a used GH5 and lens or just wait until the A7SIII is released to buy anything. 

Do you know if it's expected to shoot 10 bit internal?

Does anyone know the latest estimates/rumors on when the a7siii will be announced? I've been holding off on the GH5 in hopes that the a7siii will be everything the GH5 is plus better autofocus and low light. However, if it's not coming for 6 months to a year then I think I will buy a GH5 and lens now and possibly sell it when the a7siii comes out if it is significantly better.

It has taken tremendous discipline not to pull the trigger on the GH5. I hope this thing comes soon and is worth the wait.

1 hour ago, HockeyFan12 said:

No worries. The myth that raw is a substantively better for video is just a pet peeve of mine because it sets people in the wrong direction or at least emphasize the wrong priorities (the myth that vfx houses want higher resolutions is another; no, they want 1080p/2k or to charge a heck of a lot more for anything else). Of course, there are of course cases where raw is preferable or 4k is great for punching in or doing very careful work. It's really on a camera-by-camera basis how big a difference raw makes (and on a project-by-project basis whether 4k is desirable). 

Thanks for your replies, everyone. I only have a minute now so I wanted to ask, is it not the case that raw enables an easier, cleaner key? That's the only reason I was bothering with it. Regarding 4K, I want the option because the punch ins and faux camera moves it facilitates will give me many more options as a one man band, plus I heard keying in 4k and delivering in 1080p makes an even better key. I haven't had a chance to put it to the test since I don't have a 4K camera, but I got the idea from this video, 

.

On 4/2/2017 at 1:12 PM, Turboguard said:

When I read topics like this it always makes me wonder what the OT's skill set is like as is, do you have anything to share? The reason I ask is because I feel like a lot of people today, especially the younger generation (say under 40) believes everything can be done with the latest tech. But I feel like it's more like an obsession to just have the latest or the most expensive. Nothing is about skill or talent anymore. Sorry for excessive rant... Just curious what you (OT) has done before and I'm interested in seeing your skill with a camera as is.

I wasn't trying to put on airs by choosing the username I did, I'm a rank amateur as far as cinematography is concerned. That said, I would still expect turning a manual focus ring until things are in sharp focus to be within my grasp, yet I find it often eludes me when I review the footage I shot with my BMPCC. I can bring a projector into focus via a manual focus ring easily enough, so I don't think it's my eye, wrist, or coordination between the two that's the problem. Have you shot with the BMPCC before and achieved good focus consistently using its LCD alone?

Regarding your suggestion that I am obsessed with having the latest and most expensive, I've had my camera for exactly 3 years, 8 months, and 8 days, which I don't think is an unreasonable amount of time to wait for an upgrade. Regarding your implication that I am skill-less and talentless, I enjoy the creative process and seeing family, friends, and neighbors enjoy the things I create. A little green screen, motion tracking, and 3D compositing goes a long way toward entertaining people. I'm simply looking for something to help make it easier to do within my constraints.

On 4/1/2017 at 10:56 PM, IronFilm said:

I agree with Turboguard, and you already have a great camera for now with the BMPCC. 

Sounds like your biggest issue right now is focus, and with the poor screen on the back of the BMPCC that is not too surprising (although I've often done little shoots with just the stripped down BMPCC and nothing else!). 

So I recommend that first of all, before buying any new camera, get yourself a nice external monitor, such as this:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1251089-REG/aputure_vs_5_on_camera_monitor.html

Or this:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1224295-REG/smallhd_mon_701_lite_701_lite_7_hdmi.html

Or this:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1153980-REG/smallhd_mon_501_501_hdmi_full_hd.html

Thanks, IronFilm. Do these contain focus peaking mechanisms of their own, or do they simply magnify and display more sharply the image coming out of the camera and its focus peaking?

Does anyone have any idea when the a7siii may be released, or at the very least announced? I've been holding off from getting a GH5 due to the hope that the a7siii may offer better auto focus, better low light, equal or better iq, stabilization, etc. My budget only allows me to get a camera every 4 years or so, which is why I haven't just bought the GH5 per the adage "there will always be something better around the corner". At the same time, though, I can only wait so long to see if it's even worth continuing to wait for. Thanks!

Thanks, webrunner5, I'll sit tight and see what is announced at NAB. If nothing better is around the corner, it sounds like the GH5 is my best bet.

Thank you for your replies. I realize that with my budget I'm going to have to settle for the "poor man's" version of what a real production would use to achieve these things. Still, I'm trying to make the best choice I can given that constraint. So you would suggest the Sony A6500 over the GH5 for these applications?

Hi all,

I have been reading the eoshd.com forum for a long time and respect the opinions of many contributors here, so I’m hoping to get some advice on which camera (~$3,000 or less) is best for me.

I enjoy doing VFX and would like to emulate scenes that are combinations of slow motion, green screen, match moving, etc.

I have a Black Magic Pocket Cinema Camera, the BMPCC Metabones Speed Booster, and Sigma 18-35 lens that I got because I read it would be easier to key footage using RAW or 4:2:2 color space. I find it so difficult to nail focus with it, though, (even using focus peaking) that I can rarely motivate myself to invest time in shooting something with it because the end result is often somewhat blurry to me, even after applying unsharpen in post. I bought a loupe for it as well hoping that would resolve the issue, but I still can’t seem to get consistently sharp results. I’m sure it’s just me because others rave about this camera.

Anyhow, I talked my wife into agreeing that I can buy a new camera, and it’s going to be the only one I’ll be able to get for at least 3 years given how difficult that conversation was, so I want to make sure I make the best choice possible, even if that means waiting for something coming out later this year.

These are the features I’m looking for:

1. Great stabilization so I can do interesting camera moves without the expense or hassle of a steady cam or gimbal.
2. Great auto focus so that “talent” stays in focus while I do above mentioned camera moves
3. 4K so I can emulate camera moves/zooms in post for 1080p delivery
4. Great low light so I can get good footage with less than ideal lighting.
5. Great color information to aid me in chroma keying footage
6. Low rolling shutter to reduce/eliminate blurring of tracking markers so that software can assist with match moving camera moves in 3D virtual environment
7. Great slow motion to allow for emulating scenes from Spartacus: Blood and Sand and the like.

I was waiting for the GH5 to arrive because I’d hoped it would tick all these boxes, but I’ve read in a few places now that its video auto focus is not as good as Sony’s or Canon’s, it doesn’t have great low light, etc. Of course, Sony and Canon seem to be missing things that the GH5 offers. I'm trying to find the camera that comes closest to having it all.

Is there a non-hybrid/camcorder type camera I should be looking at? I’m surprised hybrid cameras seem to be advancing at the pace they are but I haven’t heard about any similarly priced dedicated video solutions that offer everything they do and more. Is there anything rumored to be coming out at NAB that would be a better fit for the above applications than what’s available now?

Thanks so much for your help/advice!