MurtlandPhoto

I guess I disagree that anyone should have been allowed to patent 8K compressed Raw, or 12k, or 4k 1000 fps--a decade before any of that was possible. I see arguments that the patent is valid because Red were the first to do 4k raw, so to the victor go the spoils... but since we're talking about differences like 23 vs 24, it's a valid point that they patented numbers that they could not achieve at the time.
And in a broader sense, I don't understand why a parent should be able to prevent other companies from applying known, existing math to data that they generate. Without even inventing an algorithm, Red legally blocked all compression algorithms.

Which means they're guarding the act of compression itself. Frame rates and level of compression are also stupid. Its like to patent a CPU with 8 cores to prevent anyone else making any CPU with more than 7 cores. Nobody should be allowed to patent the scale of something. 

Yup, that's another example of what B.S. the RED patent is. 
"oh noes, someone else is already doing 1080, guess we'll just have to make our patent be for everything 2K and over!"
Bet the OG Pocket Cinema Camera could have given us 2K raw (rather than maxing out at 1080) if not for RED.
"oh noes, someone else is already doing 5:1, guess we'll just have to make our patent be for everything 6:1 and greater!"
Not really, is there a massive difference between 24fps or 23fps?? Or 22fps and 21fps? Or 18fps and 17fps? Or 9fps and 8fps? 
That's why by a simple process of induction, I say no. 
Sony already had on offer 12bit 444
And there were already numerous cameras shooting raw such as SI-2K & Viper 
Proves the point that we wouldn't be all lost without hope if not for RED's "innovation", when they were merely hours earlier in filing a similar patent than someone else. Clearly this was all in the minds and familiar to numerous people around the world back then. 
Yes, I fully give credit to RED for launching the revolutionary RED ONE! (just like how the D90/5Dmk2 were all revolutionary as well! But that doesn't mean Nikon should have got a patent for HDSLRs just because they were "first"! Yikes, imagine a world where only Nikon could make HDSLRs?? 😮 ) 
And also the EPIC after the RED ONE was another leap forward for RED. Excellent stuff. 
But I can't buy the argument that RED has overall been a net positive rather than a net negative, I find that a little difficult argument to buy as it is on tenuous grounds. 
Because whatever good they did with RED ONE and DSMC1, I feel that has been greatly undone by the barriers RED has put up and stifling of the industry they've also created. 
Where might Blackmagic be today if not for the landmines they've had to step around which RED has placed? 
How much stronger might Kinefinity (& Z Cam) might be today if they could have had proper USA distribution and servicing of their cameras? (as that has undoubtedly been their biggest roadblock in getting widespread adoption in America / Hollywood. I've even had friends who in the past who looked into being a distributor for Kinefinity, but didn't because of RED. Of course now Kinefinity finally does have representation in USA, but imagine if they'd got this back in the early 2010's instead of only finally now? And without the limits RED placed upon them)
Might AJA or Digital Bolex had a second chance of success with another follow up camera if they first camera didn't have to worry about strife from RED lawyers?
Even worse, what is the unseen? How many companies don't even exist and never tried because of RED? 
 

I mentioned in the other thread that I might download the v2.0 internal RAW firmware update for the Z9 even though I don't own the camera yet in case RED sued them.......
RED have today filed a lawsuit against Nikon for patent infringement.
https://www.docketalarm.com/cases/California_Central_District_Court/8--22-cv-01048/Red.com_LLC_v._Nikon_Corporation_et_al/1/
I'm guessing we are all Larry David hearing of this in no way entirely predictable turn of events 🙂 

 
Z9 firmware update here if you want to get there before the lawyers.
https://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/en/download/fw/444.html

Perhaps I should rephrase. I think there's a true, scientific definition of DR and then there's the marketing definition of DR. The latter has always been squishy for most manufacturers with some taking more liberty than others. My understanding is that ARRI is much more conservative and "real" with their marketing definition of DR. I believe they claim the original Alexa sensor as 15 stops. So, if they say this new sensor has 17 stops I take them at their word that it is two stops better. 

No, I don’t. You have no physics evidence to refute ARRI’s claim. They do not use a typical CMOS sensor configuration, they use dual gain architecture at high bit depth to arrive at a higher dynamic range than common CMOS sensors, and there absolutely is real physics behind how they do it, because their current sensors ALREADY do it. There’s no secrets (although there are patents protecting it,) and I think it is not only reasonable, but obvious, to conclude that in the many years since their original sensor design, there are improvements in sensor technology that now allow them to improve by a couple stops.

The PK4 to me is just too awkward of a camera body. And with a cage even more goofy. I get that 4k is never going to look like 1080p. It has it's uses. Even Arri doesn't really like a 4k camera. I doubt 4% of the world has a 4k TV let alone 8k. I don't, heck one of my 42" is 720p. Yeah, my 50" 1080p looks a Lot better. My 4k Monitor looks even better but...

Yeah Resolve has gotten pretty good now with the BM cameras on the Color Transformation thing. Amazing feature.

I'm inclined to agree with you. I think Patrick Tomasso said it best in his review (I've watched too many reviews to keep track)... essentially the GH5 was an absolute powerhouse because it could do things no other system could really do at the time. Now things have changed and full frame has caught up and surpassed in all the ways that matter to most shooters.

I'm inclined to agree with you. I think Patrick Tomasso said it best in his review (I've watched too many reviews to keep track)... essentially the GH5 was an absolute powerhouse because it could do things no other system could really do at the time. Now things have changed and full frame has caught up and surpassed in all the ways that matter to most shooters.

Thank you very much for the feedback dear friends.
It is very stressful to make these types of videos when out of 15 people, only 2 really know what they are doing, and the rest are waiting and chatting. So I must dedicate to adjusting the lights, the camera, the set, explaining to an administrative staff how to turn on and start recording the mixpre. Unpack the sweets, distribute the sugar, help to dress the companions ...
Two different locations in 6 hours in total.
The total production budget was 0.
In the end you can't be at all ...
Luckily more and more people want to participate selflessly in our projects, so I think we can only improve for the next time.
I leave some photos of the filming.
 P.S. At the end of the day, the administrative person told me that he did not know why the battery level went up to the red zone and to the green zone so fast. It was the audio level (vu meter) and he thought throughout the recording that it was the state of the battery. At that moment I wanted to die 🤣

If they were THAT concerned with segmentation they wouldn't release a camera that can double as a cine camera, including RAW. 

I was waiting for someone to post this 🙂 I think this could be Blackmagic's most compelling camera to date. It is their first do-everything camera: cinema, corporate, broadcast, live event and streaming. The price is just right. 

6K Super35 CMOS Sensor, Dual Native ISO (helps when expanding the B4 image and losing a some amount of stops of light to cover the 4k crop of the sensor)
2/3" B4 Lens Mount & Active EF Mount
6K Blackmagic RAW Recording
Records to ProRes
H.265/264 (10bit 4.2.2 - Grant is call it H.265 SDI because of the higher specification)
12G-SDI Input & Output, Genlock/Timecode (Built-In Timecode Generator)
13 x Stops of Dynamic Range
2 x UHS-II SD, 2 x CFast 2.0 Slots (Dual Media Slots for Nonstop Recording)
Built-In 2/4/6-Stop ND Filters
XLR Inputs, 3.5mm Audio Output
ProRes Recording up to 1080p120
USB Type-C for Recording Direct to External Media Disk
Control Broadcast B4 Lens zoom and focus the through camera or remote over the internet via Blackmagic ecosystem.
Includes Mini Shoulder Pad
Includes Mini Top Handle
Includes V-Mount Battery Plate
Included DaVinci Resolve Studio
Can stream via smart phone over the internet to (you tube etc) or to the Blackmagic ecosystem (camera, lens and coloring remote control via the internet possible). Can record simultaneously the video the is being feed to the stream at a hight codec simultaneously (future free software update)
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/media/video/645038552

I too have been using a small camera lately to fly under the radar. I went with the Osmo Pocket. It's perfect for home videos and BTS stuff on set. 

This is a really good point. 

Refurbished items often come with warrantees of their own making them a bit safer than just straight up used copies. I definitely recommend buying used or refurbished from any of those retailers in addition to Adorama. I've had great experiences with all of them. The used prices are often a little higher than you'd pay buying direct from another person, but you get the security of solid return policies and reputations.

Refurbished items often come with warrantees of their own making them a bit safer than just straight up used copies. I definitely recommend buying used or refurbished from any of those retailers in addition to Adorama. I've had great experiences with all of them. The used prices are often a little higher than you'd pay buying direct from another person, but you get the security of solid return policies and reputations.

Refurbished items often come with warrantees of their own making them a bit safer than just straight up used copies. I definitely recommend buying used or refurbished from any of those retailers in addition to Adorama. I've had great experiences with all of them. The used prices are often a little higher than you'd pay buying direct from another person, but you get the security of solid return policies and reputations.

Charlotte Bellis (a kiwi journalist in Kabul right now) posted today on Instagram about how she got an Osmo Pocket:



She likes how discreet it is. (an understandable benefit when you're in Kabul....)
 
Nikon broke my heart with the Nikon DL18-50, by teasing it, but then never releasing it 😞

I too have been using a small camera lately to fly under the radar. I went with the Osmo Pocket. It's perfect for home videos and BTS stuff on set. 

And an ergonomic awkward disaster deal breaker for other people. 

The funny thing is, the bigger budget shoots I have been on, getting to use larger, nicer cinema cams, I usually also have a whole team of art design, beautiful set dec, gaffers and grip lighting everything so nicely, photogenic pro talent, hmu artists... By the time I get around to hitting the red button everything already looks incredible. Lighting is dialed, everything pre-planned, I don't really feel like I need the DR and flexibility of the high-end cine gear because it already looks incredible in-camera, and still would with much cheaper gear. 
Contrast that with lower budget, run-and-gun stuff, that's when I'm going to potentially miss white balance or not be lighting as well and having to push the camera harder. 
My point being, it's kind of ironic that on higher end work everything is so dialed in around the camera that raw, extreme DR, amazing color science, etc., is kind of a moot point, and it's on low budget work that I often really wish I could have that level of quality and flexibility to make up for other areas that are lacking. 

Well now, just over month later, I cannot recommend the Ursa Mini Pro to anyone. On Sept. 5 my UMP died out of nowhere in the middle of a shoot. Completely black image off the sensor, no menus, no image from SDI, won't playback clips... DEAD. I talked to Blackmagic and other users. It turns out this is a fatal sensor issue that Blackmagic will not service at all. They won't even take the camera to assess it—all they needed was an email conversation to confirm this was the issue. I can't recommend a camera from a company that refuses to service their own product. They'll still service the G2, but for how long?? Is that worth the risk? Not for me. Not while I'm dealing with insurance.
 
I've moved on to the Panasonic EVA1 to match my S1 in Vlog. The menu system feels like I'm in the stone ages compared to Blackmagic's fantastic menus and the screen is utter garbage, but the image is simply amazing and right up on par with the UMP. 

Yep, it's not EOSHD that's the problem it's me! I need to get my enthusiasm back. It's been a tough time.
Thanks for the comments guys, it is helping me figure things out a lot.