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BTM_Pix

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  1. Like
    BTM_Pix got a reaction from Orangenz in ETTR: Noise, Dynamic Range and Skin Tones   
    Haha.
    Where am I going with it?
    I think you and I are in accord over how much received wisdom there is with much of this stuff. And truth be told I'm as guilty as anyone else for perpetuating much of it!
    When you consider the image controls available in a G7 etc you have the following :
     
    8 Base colour profiles
    4 Individual modifying parameters to those 8 (Saturation, Sharpness, Contrast, Noise Reduction) each of which have 11 possible settings (+5 to -5 and 0)
    2 Global parameters (Highlight and Shadow) both of which have 11 possible settings (+5 to -5 and 0)
     
    That means that there are over 1.7 million different combinations.
    And thats without the additional Hue control that some Lumix cameras have.
    Oh and thats 1.7 million different combinations per profile.
    Can anyone honestly say they've tested all 14 million combinations to determine their definitive setup for these cameras?
    Obviously no one has, even though I know sometimes it feels like we have
    And on the basis that all of these parameters do actually make a difference, there could be some really interesting combinations of them that no one tries because the received wisdom (and lets be honest with 14 million combinations its no bad thing to use that) tells us that we should use a smallish core base and then tweak from there.
    Do we actually know, for example, if you have the noise reduction at +5 and the shadows at -5 and the highlights at +4 on a Natural profile with the saturation at 3 and the contrast at 2 and sharpness at -3 that these cameras don't suddenly look like you've got Kodachrome 64 in them? No, because we'd guess that those settings would make it look like it horrendous and not go near them. Does anyone even really know what happens if you have the noise reduction at +5? Does anyone even really know if it actually works at all as I can't imagine most people have ever tried it at that setting.
    And the reason we don't know, in my opinion, is that not only are there so many combinations but that its just too fiddly to be diving in and out of menus to change them and have the immediate feedback of what the interaction of those parameters actually looks like.
    So, where I'm going is to make that a lot easier and hopefully people can come across some happy accidents and make profiles that they don't have to spend hours tweaking later.....
  2. Like
    BTM_Pix reacted to HockeyFan12 in 18-135mm Nano USM and PZ-E1 question   
    I have no self-control lol. Especially after two beers.
    I'll let you know what I think. Neither my C100 nor SL1 have a hint of decent autofocus but I can put them through their paces. 
  3. Like
    BTM_Pix got a reaction from mercer in ETTR: Noise, Dynamic Range and Skin Tones   
    Haha.
    Where am I going with it?
    I think you and I are in accord over how much received wisdom there is with much of this stuff. And truth be told I'm as guilty as anyone else for perpetuating much of it!
    When you consider the image controls available in a G7 etc you have the following :
     
    8 Base colour profiles
    4 Individual modifying parameters to those 8 (Saturation, Sharpness, Contrast, Noise Reduction) each of which have 11 possible settings (+5 to -5 and 0)
    2 Global parameters (Highlight and Shadow) both of which have 11 possible settings (+5 to -5 and 0)
     
    That means that there are over 1.7 million different combinations.
    And thats without the additional Hue control that some Lumix cameras have.
    Oh and thats 1.7 million different combinations per profile.
    Can anyone honestly say they've tested all 14 million combinations to determine their definitive setup for these cameras?
    Obviously no one has, even though I know sometimes it feels like we have
    And on the basis that all of these parameters do actually make a difference, there could be some really interesting combinations of them that no one tries because the received wisdom (and lets be honest with 14 million combinations its no bad thing to use that) tells us that we should use a smallish core base and then tweak from there.
    Do we actually know, for example, if you have the noise reduction at +5 and the shadows at -5 and the highlights at +4 on a Natural profile with the saturation at 3 and the contrast at 2 and sharpness at -3 that these cameras don't suddenly look like you've got Kodachrome 64 in them? No, because we'd guess that those settings would make it look like it horrendous and not go near them. Does anyone even really know what happens if you have the noise reduction at +5? Does anyone even really know if it actually works at all as I can't imagine most people have ever tried it at that setting.
    And the reason we don't know, in my opinion, is that not only are there so many combinations but that its just too fiddly to be diving in and out of menus to change them and have the immediate feedback of what the interaction of those parameters actually looks like.
    So, where I'm going is to make that a lot easier and hopefully people can come across some happy accidents and make profiles that they don't have to spend hours tweaking later.....
  4. Like
    BTM_Pix got a reaction from Grimor in ETTR: Noise, Dynamic Range and Skin Tones   
    Haha.
    Where am I going with it?
    I think you and I are in accord over how much received wisdom there is with much of this stuff. And truth be told I'm as guilty as anyone else for perpetuating much of it!
    When you consider the image controls available in a G7 etc you have the following :
     
    8 Base colour profiles
    4 Individual modifying parameters to those 8 (Saturation, Sharpness, Contrast, Noise Reduction) each of which have 11 possible settings (+5 to -5 and 0)
    2 Global parameters (Highlight and Shadow) both of which have 11 possible settings (+5 to -5 and 0)
     
    That means that there are over 1.7 million different combinations.
    And thats without the additional Hue control that some Lumix cameras have.
    Oh and thats 1.7 million different combinations per profile.
    Can anyone honestly say they've tested all 14 million combinations to determine their definitive setup for these cameras?
    Obviously no one has, even though I know sometimes it feels like we have
    And on the basis that all of these parameters do actually make a difference, there could be some really interesting combinations of them that no one tries because the received wisdom (and lets be honest with 14 million combinations its no bad thing to use that) tells us that we should use a smallish core base and then tweak from there.
    Do we actually know, for example, if you have the noise reduction at +5 and the shadows at -5 and the highlights at +4 on a Natural profile with the saturation at 3 and the contrast at 2 and sharpness at -3 that these cameras don't suddenly look like you've got Kodachrome 64 in them? No, because we'd guess that those settings would make it look like it horrendous and not go near them. Does anyone even really know what happens if you have the noise reduction at +5? Does anyone even really know if it actually works at all as I can't imagine most people have ever tried it at that setting.
    And the reason we don't know, in my opinion, is that not only are there so many combinations but that its just too fiddly to be diving in and out of menus to change them and have the immediate feedback of what the interaction of those parameters actually looks like.
    So, where I'm going is to make that a lot easier and hopefully people can come across some happy accidents and make profiles that they don't have to spend hours tweaking later.....
  5. Like
    BTM_Pix reacted to HockeyFan12 in 18-135mm Nano USM and PZ-E1 question   
    Guess what I just bought. 
    Yes, both the lens and zoom rocker. 
    If nothing else I have a new travel lens for stills.
  6. Like
    BTM_Pix got a reaction from buggz in And For My Next Trick....... (aka Why I was hacking the GX80 in the first place)   
    Its highly likely that it will be purely dependent on what controller people want to use.
    Its fundamentally in there but just mapped to a thumbstick at the moment. A controller with a fader in (or many faders) is easily supported.
    Watch this space, I suppose.
  7. Like
    BTM_Pix got a reaction from jonpais in Lenses   
    Could you talk me through this behaviour with the AF-ON button Jase and whether you know if it is the same on the 45 1.8?
    I have the 45 1.8 and when I'm testing it with my hardware controller in MF mode I can focus manually by wire with the joystick and activate an instant AF by pushing the stick in and I can also activate a joystick steerable mode where I can move the focus point around the screen and then press the stick in to activate an instant AF on that point.
    I'm curious to know if this would solve the issue for you if it did the same with the 17 as I don't have one of those to test with?
  8. Like
    BTM_Pix got a reaction from jonpais in ETTR: Noise, Dynamic Range and Skin Tones   
    I'll do a few tests with a couple of different ones I've got around if I get a chance over the weekend.
    They're all varying degrees of cheapo so I expect it'll be all over the place !
  9. Like
    BTM_Pix reacted to jase in Lenses   
    It is true for all Oly lenses that have the MF declutch mode. The 45 1.8 doesnt have this mode, so the behaviour on this lens might be / is different.
    Like i said, when you have such an oly lens with the focus ring pulled back, the AF-ON button is disabled (I set the AE/AF lock button to this mode). Once you push the focus ring back to normal mode, the AF-ON works as expected (even if you set your camera (not by using the lens!) to MF mode.
  10. Like
    BTM_Pix got a reaction from m0fe in And For My Next Trick....... (aka Why I was hacking the GX80 in the first place)   
    The very first prototype I did was not too dissimilar actually !

  11. Like
    BTM_Pix got a reaction from Inazuma in And For My Next Trick....... (aka Why I was hacking the GX80 in the first place)   
    The very first prototype I did was not too dissimilar actually !

  12. Like
    BTM_Pix got a reaction from Mikey R in Cheap vs Expensive Camera Blind Test   
    "Ex Demo" used to be a common way in the UK to get round manufacturer's price controls preventing you from advertising products at discounted prices.
     When I used to sell recording studio equipment many, many years ago, products would mysteriously go out of stock from the manufacturer if you were advertising below list price. It was completely illegal for them to force price fixing in that way of course but the law didn't stop them being out of stock or giving you a trade discount of 0% if they felt like it, so it was de-facto price control.
    All of our magazine ads mainly featured an 'Ex Demo' sale list with discounted prices for the products that we weren't allowed to advertise at discount prices.
    These 'Ex Demo' product prices were, conveniently, exactly the same discounted price we'd sell you a brand new one at if you visited us at the office.
    So, customers would ring up and go :
    "I'm ringing about the ex-demo Lexicon PCM70 you've got advertised. Do you still have it?"
    To which we'd reply.
    "Hang on, I'll just check.......(on hold to pretend we were looking even though we knew there was no such ex-demo one).....Awww,no..I'm sorry it went this morning....I tell you what though, if you want one, we've got a couple of brand new ones that a customer has cancelled an order for, I'll do you one of those for the same price if you like?"
    At which point your hand would be bitten off, the customer got a great deal, we had a happy customer who loved our generosity and fairness and we and the manufacturers could live happily in the illusion of no one ever advertising a product below list price.
    I think some camera stores in the UK are using "Open Box" as being the new "Ex Demo".
    You knew were you stood with us if it said "Used" though so there was never any confusion.
    If we ever advertised something as "Used" there was a good chance it had rust on it.
  13. Like
    BTM_Pix got a reaction from jonpais in ETTR: Noise, Dynamic Range and Skin Tones   
    Will do.
    Just let me finish prototyping this interactive picture profile creation tweaker 
     

  14. Like
    BTM_Pix got a reaction from jonpais in ETTR: Noise, Dynamic Range and Skin Tones   
    Yeah, I was very interested in how much faith could be put in them if you wanted to really expose to the right and have them set at 100.
    And my takeaway is that they can largely be relied on if you want to push that far. It was also interesting, for me at least (!), to see the interaction between the profiles and the levels at the same exposure settings. Considering how coarse the histogram display is then this is a good thing
    What I've seen here might form the basis of a bit more testing for me at some point actually to look at the relationship with the profile, the contrast parameter within it and the additional global shadow and highlight adjusters in the camera. I think there is possibly some scope there to create profiles that incorporate all those parameters into single combination packages to create potentially finished OOC looks that I could make be deployed with a single button press.
    There might actually be combinations of these parameters that you'd maybe describe as non-intuitive that you look at the actual image its producing and think "You know what, that shouldn't work but I like the way that that looks".
    With analog synths for example, you pushed and prodded at the controls because they were there in front of you rather than having to deliberately go into menus and find them like you did with digital synths. It brought about happy accidents (as well as absolute abominations of noise) and I think it could be the same with these cameras. Its too fiddly to go in and change things in them through the menus so you become so methodical that you seldom create combinations that might just be really interesting.
    If all those parameters are laid out in front of you for you to twiddle with and you can see the live results of them (because you don't have to go in and out of menus) then I think that might happen.
    You'll probably end up with lots of rubbish but might just pan some gold.
    I'm quite enthused about this now and I'm going off to hack together something to do it!
  15. Like
    BTM_Pix got a reaction from ntblowz in And For My Next Trick....... (aka Why I was hacking the GX80 in the first place)   
    The very first prototype I did was not too dissimilar actually !

  16. Like
    BTM_Pix reacted to Snowfun in And For My Next Trick....... (aka Why I was hacking the GX80 in the first place)   
    I've often thought the Sony Vita (the handheld PlayStation) would be perfect for this sort of thing... but I'm sure there must be a reason why it's not!
  17. Like
    BTM_Pix got a reaction from jonpais in ETTR: Noise, Dynamic Range and Skin Tones   
    Just a slightly different aspect to this but I was curious about how accurate the zebras are and how useful the histogram is with these cameras so I did a little test with the G7.
    I set the zebras to 100 to flash the middle column where the colour checker is stuck on and framed it so the door was in shot to see the different shadow levels with different profiles.
    Ignore the completely deliberately blown out right third portion of wall and sky as this is for a completely different test !
    So that you could see what the camera was actually doing (and more importantly what it was saying it was doing), I recorded the output with the overlays on into a Ninja Inferno and did 3 passes using Standard, Cinelike D and Natural profiles, altering the shutter speed to change the exposure to show where the zebras came on for each.
    Annoyingly, I can't record the scope overlays of the Ninja Inferno as it was interesting to monitor what the camera thought was 100 and what the Ninja Inferno did.
    The good news is that the zebras are pretty accurate (I checked at 80, 70 and 60 as well) and you can see that reflected in the scopes in these grabs in FCPX.
    You can also see that Cinelike D is reducing the peak and stretching other parts of the range compared to the same exposure using the different profiles (all profiles were set to 0 for every parameter so there is more to be had from tuning but that was outside of the scope if you pardon the pun of what I was doing.
    What I found interesting is how there was quite a coarse change in level between the exposure combination of ISO/SS and F stop that would trip the zebras and the closest one that wouldn't, with the level going from 100 to around 92-ish. Using a variable ND, I was able to slightly tune that between the cracks as it were to eek a bit more out but if you've got the precision to be turning an ND like that all the time then you'd be better off being a safe cracker.
    So, the takeaway for me from doing this is that the zebras are accurate enough to use at 100 if you want to really expose to the right and the histogram is, erm, a yellow graphic.
    Download link for the video file if anyone wants to have a look in their own NLE is here
    https://mega.nz/#!ZyYCgC6R!WTM3Nz2MXfSzKtwG0hPhOBAvSqNaOq4eOnIUycnPQ3I
     



  18. Like
    BTM_Pix reacted to m0fe in And For My Next Trick....... (aka Why I was hacking the GX80 in the first place)   
    That is brilliant, great work. Would be great for a hand grip like FS7/5 but on steroids. Also the little Bluetooth joypad for gimbal work would be sweet. Can't wait 
  19. Like
  20. Like
    BTM_Pix reacted to HockeyFan12 in 18-135mm Nano USM and PZ-E1 question   
    Ooh yeah that is bad. Not as bad as I get by doing a crash zoom with a similar lens but really ugly.
    You can see someone using it on a C100 mk II here but the aperture racks when he zooms. That said.... no flicker.
    I wasn't considering this but given the cheap gray market availability of the lens and second hand market (since it's a kit lens for so many cameras) I might have to sell the old hvx and pick one up.
    18-135mm is also the most useful range for video IMO and outdoors I don't need anything faster than f5.6 whereas my prime kit is really heavy.
  21. Like
    BTM_Pix reacted to tonysss in Would You Perhaps Be Interested In A Different GX80/85 Colour Profile???   
    "Hackine D"  today test on GX80 and Pany 20mm 1.7  , 1080/50p
    By mistake Sharpness is set "0"     :-(   And it can be seen , I always set up for panasonic sharpness -5 
     
  22. Like
    BTM_Pix got a reaction from Georgios in Would You Perhaps Be Interested In A Different GX80/85 Colour Profile???   
    Not thus far but my work on it at least is suspended while I'm doing the hardware controller.
    We've got a lead with an old version of the app that had the 'free' VLOG glitch but needs someone with a GH4 with the old firmware before Panasonic shut the door on it to try and do some exploring to see if it could be applied to the G7.
    Priority list for what I'm up to is the hardware controller, followed by Cinelike D on LX100 and then after that I'll revisit VLOG if no one else has been looking at it. I don't think the extra bitrates are viable using this method.
  23. Like
    BTM_Pix got a reaction from Devin Bunn in Would You Perhaps Be Interested In A Different GX80/85 Colour Profile???   
    Not thus far but my work on it at least is suspended while I'm doing the hardware controller.
    We've got a lead with an old version of the app that had the 'free' VLOG glitch but needs someone with a GH4 with the old firmware before Panasonic shut the door on it to try and do some exploring to see if it could be applied to the G7.
    Priority list for what I'm up to is the hardware controller, followed by Cinelike D on LX100 and then after that I'll revisit VLOG if no one else has been looking at it. I don't think the extra bitrates are viable using this method.
  24. Like
    BTM_Pix reacted to Devin Bunn in Would You Perhaps Be Interested In A Different GX80/85 Colour Profile???   
    I have a friend who has the old FW GH4. I can see if he'd be willing to help
  25. Like
    BTM_Pix got a reaction from Grégory LEROY in Would You Perhaps Be Interested In A Different GX80/85 Colour Profile???   
    Not thus far but my work on it at least is suspended while I'm doing the hardware controller.
    We've got a lead with an old version of the app that had the 'free' VLOG glitch but needs someone with a GH4 with the old firmware before Panasonic shut the door on it to try and do some exploring to see if it could be applied to the G7.
    Priority list for what I'm up to is the hardware controller, followed by Cinelike D on LX100 and then after that I'll revisit VLOG if no one else has been looking at it. I don't think the extra bitrates are viable using this method.
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