gt3rs

You asked about two specific cinema cameras - neither of which has stills capability - so what worthwhile opinion was there to influence when you weren't revealing 70% of the requirement ?
You have absolutely wasted the time of every well meaning person in this thread that was giving you very considered opinions not only on the two cameras that you originally requested a comparison of but also on many different similar alternatives that you might like to consider.
You then compounded this by encouraging more input on different types of camera that you knew would only meet 30% of your needs and would therefore not be suitable.
There were two points at which you should have mentioned that 70% of what you wanted this camera for wouldn't be covered by a cinema camera - the first time was in the original post and the second time was when anyone mentioned any other cinema camera that doesn't do stills.
If you had mentioned the stills requirement then you would have got responses for at least these three high end hybrids.
Sony a1
Nikon Z8/9
Fujifilm GFX100/II
The first two of these you did get recommendations for (the a1 was the very first reply) and interestingly didn't respond to at all when they are the only two cameras that have been mentioned in the thread that fulfil what you knew that you needed.
And, lo and behold, the last one is the one you've now bought.
I even said in my recommendation of the Z8/Z9 that "Naturally, if you do decide to shoot the odd still with it then it rinses every cinema camera out there at that particular task".
Did you not think that might have been an opportune moment to say "actually, I have to admit that I do need a still capability" instead of letting the debate go on a few more pages with people blissfully unaware they were wasting their time on the finer points of cinema cameras that would in no way be able to meet your requirements ?
If you had come to realise that it was a hybrid that you needed throughout the course of the discussion in the thread then thats one thing but to know that from the get go and not state it then or at any point subsequently is another thing entirely.
I hope you enjoy your GFX100II and it will certainly service the real needs that you have now revealed that you actually have pretty well but you owe an apology to everyone on this thread that you have clearly abused the goodwill of.

Nikon are doing some fantastic things with their cameras, which is great from a Canon perspective. I expect that the R5 mkII and R1 next year will have to ensure that they surpass the competitive offerings from Nikon and Sony.
For a brand that is supposed to be trailing the others in innovation I've been particularly impressed by Canon's lens offerings. Obviously they've got the without-peer 28-70mm f/2 lens (still) but recently they've added the Canon 135mm f/1.8 IS (which I've been using this year and it is absolutely phenomenal, especially for video).

Then the ultra expensive 100-300mm f/2.8L IS and in the last couple of months they've added the 10-20mm f/4, the 24-105mm f/2.8 IS and the 200-800mm f/6.3 - 9 IS.

Each of these are pushing the boundaries of what was previously thought was achievable in a lens.
That's not to say that the other brands don't have good offerings. However, each of the above lenses I've mentioned is keeping me firmly in the Canon camp. Coupled with the likely improvements on the already exceptional Canon R5 and I honestly can't believe how far we've come with camera offerings in the 15 years since I've been using professional camera gear.

Above 100mm IBIS become less efficient but if the lens has IS you can handheld, I regularly handheld 400mm 

Above 100mm IBIS become less efficient but if the lens has IS you can handheld, I regularly handheld 400mm 

While the C70 is a great compact cine cam, the fact it is RF S35 means you need to buy very expensive FF RF glass that you won't even be fully exploiting, unless you adapt with the speed booster. On the flip side, the FX6 is FF only so that locks you into FF glass. 
I really think both Canon & Sony need to release above +4K resolution FF cine cameras next so you can enjoy both FF & S35 native lenses. Currently the mirrorless offerings are way more flexible in that regard.

50% video, 50% photo work almost all action related.

Paid, YT + social media + local TV, professional level:
Equestrian, Ice hockey, MTB, Trial bike, Ski & Snowboard alpine/freeride, motorsports GT & Rally.
 
Hobby:
Wildlife, Aviation, Family
 
A cam: R5c
B cam: R5
C cam: Insta360 1 inch, Insta360 RS and Insta360 GO, iPhone
 
My biggest usage for the iPhone is on top of my R5c especially when I’m using long lenses >=300mm to have a wider pov, for equestrian it is my standard setup. Or in places where a normal camera is too cumbersome e.g. some b-roll inside a cramped helicopter.
 
 
Btw I’m pretty sure that all the “YT guess iPhone 15 vs best camera in the market” they start with the best conditions for a phone, then grade what the iPhone can take and then have the more pro camera match it. The inverse would show a different story imo. Again, it is incredible the progress that iPhone had in the last years but still not comparable to a good camera. Imo it sits closer to a Gopro than a mirrorless camera. Super useful feature are the 3 focal lenses, good stabilization, log and you have it always with you.
 
 

I got my iPhone 15 Pro Max (upgrade from 13 Pro Max) and some early observations:
 
Quality is good when in shooting good conditions but breaks quite quickly if you miss exposure, in low light, etc.
Log files can be graded easily and have no over-sharpening, can take some post processing but way less than R5c RAW files, the difference imo is night and day as it should be. The same for details compared to R5c is just worlds apart.
BMD does not allow you to use 2x lens, zooming 2x with the 24mm lens the quality is quite bad (very blotchy, full hd at max). I did not test yet with the apple camera and the 2x “cropped” lens to see if is better.
No Log + Cinematic in either Apple Camera or BMD
H265+Log is a good compromise size vs. Quality and you can record all fps internally.
120mm lens I find it a bit better quality than the 77mm of the 13, and a more useful focal range for what I normally cover.
I have BMD set to save to Files, then I connect a USB-C CFexpress or SSD and move the files in Files, is the quickest and easier method for PC users. Much better that the previous phone that was a nightmare to get the footage out from a PC.
Action button is useful as you can set to start or even start recording in the BMD.
Still need to get use to the BMD UI, with no hw button/wheels changing things rapidly is a bit of a pain for me.
 
Overall, with Log and the 120mm is big update and I will use it even more than my previous phone, especially as B or C cam.
Using it as a main camera is a big stretch and I think I will be mostly disappointed.
 
Frame grab 4k Log 120mm.

Official NDs filters
https://store.insta360.com/product/ace-pro-nd-filter-set?c=2649&from=accessory

For example motorsports (Cars, Buggy, etc) applications is where you want to disable digital stabilization and add ND filter. Nothing worse than stabilization correcting the car movements and lack of motion blur.

Inferior DR did you see a scientific test that measure the stops, if yes can you please post it as I'm curious.

You seem to be very knowledgeable but your examples that you post are not what I would call "action" so not sure that claiming that this is not an action cam feels right.

In between the avalanche of useless YT review there are some pieces that show the potential of the camera.

From what I could see so far:
Gopro 12
+ 10 bit log
+ MAX LENS MOD (this for POV makes a big difference)
+ integrated mounting
+ a bit lighter
+ replaceable lens
+ 2.7k 240
+ a bit better stabilization

Insta360 Ace Pro
+ overall, it seems a bit better image quality.
+ low light
+ 2x "lossless crop"
+ 8k 24 (wish was at least 25)
+ better software
+ stats from Apple Watch
+ HDR mode seems more usable.

In daylight it seems to me that the RS 1inch is still the best one and is now quite old. 

Other than 120fps that is 4k only, everything else I shoot in RAW so is 8k (R5c has cropped RAW too but I don't use it as I prefer to crop myself). I'm a fan of RAW as it can be graded more heavily without breaking apart, good colorists (not like me 😉 ) can do great with 10bit log material, me less so. I also like that I don't need to set the WB upfront especially when I have zero time for setup or mistakes.

I take a lot of stills out both horizontal and vertical, so the resolution helps.
Also with 8k I can frame it a bit more loose and have some safety or is some case adding camera movements when the camera is fix like a fake panning, I add a bit of fake camera shake in Resolve to have it more natural.
  
I normally deliver in 4k. I do archive in 8k. 
 

Cined lab test of the iPhone 15 is out...
https://www.cined.com/iphone-15-pro-lab-test-rolling-shutter-dynamic-range-and-exposure-latitude/
Highlights:
Rolling shutter is very low (4.7-5ms for rear cameras and 9.3ms for front-facing camera) DR varies across ISOs due to heavy NR and processing (testing was done in 4K Prores HQ Apple Log) and they had to adapt their testing methodology for a range of reasons DR measurements are in the 11-14stops range, depending on how you measure them, and some assume no NR but this has tonnes of it, so.... In terms of exposure latitude it has 5-6 stops of latitude, depending on ISO.  In general the latitude relates to the DR, so by comparing with cameras that have 12 stops of DR and 8 stops of latitude, that would mean the iPhone has 9-10 stops of DR In the end, it's a smartphone with a tiny little sensor The article is a good read and there's lots of nuance there.

Prores 444 and 4444xq are really nice codecs to work with. The issue is compressed RAW is often actually smaller in terms of file size compared to Prores 444. I shoot 2k Prores 444 which is about 500mbps, which is a reasonable size. 

To me 12 bit is important but it doesn't matter if it in the RAW format, Prores 444 or semiraw like BRAW. For me I notice the difference in shadows and skintones compared with 10 bit recording. The differences can be subtle though. 

This video demonstrates some differences you can see in a real world scenario. FX6 10 bit vs REDRAW
 

 

Official NDs filters
https://store.insta360.com/product/ace-pro-nd-filter-set?c=2649&from=accessory

For example motorsports (Cars, Buggy, etc) applications is where you want to disable digital stabilization and add ND filter. Nothing worse than stabilization correcting the car movements and lack of motion blur.

Inferior DR did you see a scientific test that measure the stops, if yes can you please post it as I'm curious.

You seem to be very knowledgeable but your examples that you post are not what I would call "action" so not sure that claiming that this is not an action cam feels right.

In between the avalanche of useless YT review there are some pieces that show the potential of the camera.

From what I could see so far:
Gopro 12
+ 10 bit log
+ MAX LENS MOD (this for POV makes a big difference)
+ integrated mounting
+ a bit lighter
+ replaceable lens
+ 2.7k 240
+ a bit better stabilization

Insta360 Ace Pro
+ overall, it seems a bit better image quality.
+ low light
+ 2x "lossless crop"
+ 8k 24 (wish was at least 25)
+ better software
+ stats from Apple Watch
+ HDR mode seems more usable.

In daylight it seems to me that the RS 1inch is still the best one and is now quite old. 

Official NDs filters
https://store.insta360.com/product/ace-pro-nd-filter-set?c=2649&from=accessory

For example motorsports (Cars, Buggy, etc) applications is where you want to disable digital stabilization and add ND filter. Nothing worse than stabilization correcting the car movements and lack of motion blur.

Inferior DR did you see a scientific test that measure the stops, if yes can you please post it as I'm curious.

You seem to be very knowledgeable but your examples that you post are not what I would call "action" so not sure that claiming that this is not an action cam feels right.

In between the avalanche of useless YT review there are some pieces that show the potential of the camera.

From what I could see so far:
Gopro 12
+ 10 bit log
+ MAX LENS MOD (this for POV makes a big difference)
+ integrated mounting
+ a bit lighter
+ replaceable lens
+ 2.7k 240
+ a bit better stabilization

Insta360 Ace Pro
+ overall, it seems a bit better image quality.
+ low light
+ 2x "lossless crop"
+ 8k 24 (wish was at least 25)
+ better software
+ stats from Apple Watch
+ HDR mode seems more usable.

In daylight it seems to me that the RS 1inch is still the best one and is now quite old. 

Official NDs filters
https://store.insta360.com/product/ace-pro-nd-filter-set?c=2649&from=accessory

For example motorsports (Cars, Buggy, etc) applications is where you want to disable digital stabilization and add ND filter. Nothing worse than stabilization correcting the car movements and lack of motion blur.

Inferior DR did you see a scientific test that measure the stops, if yes can you please post it as I'm curious.

You seem to be very knowledgeable but your examples that you post are not what I would call "action" so not sure that claiming that this is not an action cam feels right.

In between the avalanche of useless YT review there are some pieces that show the potential of the camera.

From what I could see so far:
Gopro 12
+ 10 bit log
+ MAX LENS MOD (this for POV makes a big difference)
+ integrated mounting
+ a bit lighter
+ replaceable lens
+ 2.7k 240
+ a bit better stabilization

Insta360 Ace Pro
+ overall, it seems a bit better image quality.
+ low light
+ 2x "lossless crop"
+ 8k 24 (wish was at least 25)
+ better software
+ stats from Apple Watch
+ HDR mode seems more usable.

In daylight it seems to me that the RS 1inch is still the best one and is now quite old. 

I cover a lot of ice hockey from U20 to pro league.
The 100-300 2.8 is imo THE hockey lens if you don’t shoot through the holes. Here we don’t have holes in the plexiglass, we shoot through glass and/or plexi or if lucky from in-between the benches.
The range is perfect to cover the full field with a 45mpix camera.
 
I started shooting ice hockey with 1Dx + 70-200 2.8, then added another 1Dx + 200-400 F4 and now 1 body only R5 + 100-300 2.8. I always handhold as in hockey there are so many interruptions that I have no problem handholding for the whole match.
 
Interesting fact is that a R5 + 100-300 is only 400 grams heavier than 1Dx III + 70-200 III. 

Here a couple of Saturday game:


Some more examples of the 100-300












 

I cover a lot of ice hockey from U20 to pro league.
The 100-300 2.8 is imo THE hockey lens if you don’t shoot through the holes. Here we don’t have holes in the plexiglass, we shoot through glass and/or plexi or if lucky from in-between the benches.
The range is perfect to cover the full field with a 45mpix camera.
 
I started shooting ice hockey with 1Dx + 70-200 2.8, then added another 1Dx + 200-400 F4 and now 1 body only R5 + 100-300 2.8. I always handhold as in hockey there are so many interruptions that I have no problem handholding for the whole match.
 
Interesting fact is that a R5 + 100-300 is only 400 grams heavier than 1Dx III + 70-200 III. 

Here a couple of Saturday game:


Some more examples of the 100-300












 

Happy R5C/R5 owner/user/hobbyist here.
I love the R5C's form factor and having the C-line video menu, along with the ridiculous amount of pro features squeezed into that dslr-styled body. I also love being able to build it out or barebones it depending on what I'm shooting. But then audio-wise the Zoom F3 allowed me to put down my bulky Zoom F4 and now I have a 2 camera run n gun setup that all fits in a Nanuk 935/Pelican 1550. 
And now that the battery power issue has been addressed with the R5C (I get over a couple hours easy with the grip) - and the overheating issue has been addressed with the R5, I've got two capable cams that are future proofed with 8K (yes, I have the Ninja V+ paired with the R5). 
Finally, the RF-EF adapter means you really don't need to go to the RF lenses. There are so many amazingly priced used EF-L lenses at your disposal. But also the VND drop-in filter is fantastic imo and never leaves my camera bodies!
Coming from using C300/C100s professionally as a producer - and then owning the 5D MKII/III, 1DC as a hobbyist, I honestly feel like the R5C is my final destination cam purchase. The only thing I might do is sell the R5/Ninja V+ and pick up a second R5C body... maaaybe get a C70 when the prices get to the $2K USD range, just so I have an all-in-one C100 type cam.
Either way good luck with whatever you purchase!
 

What kind of sports do you cover?
Imo you should choose by lenses not bodies as 3 years ago Nikon had nothing, now they have two of the best cameras but in 6 months from now?
My standard kit 
R5 R5c
RF 100-300 2.8
RF 28-70 2
RF 16 2.8
1.4 tc


I have also RF 70-200 2.8 but I use it basically only on Gimbal now as the 100-300 covers a better range. I'm thinking of changing 70-200 for the 24-105 but I'm not sure I like the 100-200 range on gimbal.

I also have the RF 100-500 that I use for Freeride and MTB where I'm skiing or on a bike so the 100-300 is just too heavy.

I also have the 2x TC but I use it only for daylight horses' competition on big fields and for airplanes/wildlife.

You can't really go wrong with both systems. Today Z8 is probably the best bang for the bucks.

I shoot with R5 and R5c since the release I'm very happy, you can search my posts here tons of discussion.
R5 overheating is a thing of the past, this summer I was shooting under the sun 8k 25 RAW with on top an iphone 13 pro max in 4k... and the iphone shut down due to overheating and the R5 kept going...
Having said this I think we will se a new R5 early next year as is now more than 3.5 years old.... so not the best moment to buy it. I think R1 will also show up in first half but who knows.
R3 is an amazing camera but I don't want to go back to 24mpix and non 8k video.
My preferred one is the R5c but once you decide Nikon vs Canon we can go deeper in the differences.

Canon has some unique zooms that you may find interesting for your job:
RF 24-105 2.8 (optional power zoom) with one lens you maybe able to cover most of your need.
RF 28-70 2.0, I love this lens, no more primes to carry around, switching lens, etc. Sold all my primes other than a el cheapo 16 2.8.
RF 70-200 2.8, some love it some not due that is an extending design, but is super small and light weight, I use mine on gimbal quite a bit.
RF 100-300 2.8 cost a fortune but is great for sports.

With two super expensive lenses and a 1 TC you can cover almost everything 24-105 2.8 100-300 2.8

If you even plan to acquire or rent cinema cameras, canon RF mount lenses may be a better choice than Z lenses as both Canon and RED have, and will have cinema camera with this mount.

What kind of sports do you cover?
Imo you should choose by lenses not bodies as 3 years ago Nikon had nothing, now they have two of the best cameras but in 6 months from now?
My standard kit 
R5 R5c
RF 100-300 2.8
RF 28-70 2
RF 16 2.8
1.4 tc


I have also RF 70-200 2.8 but I use it basically only on Gimbal now as the 100-300 covers a better range. I'm thinking of changing 70-200 for the 24-105 but I'm not sure I like the 100-200 range on gimbal.

I also have the RF 100-500 that I use for Freeride and MTB where I'm skiing or on a bike so the 100-300 is just too heavy.

I also have the 2x TC but I use it only for daylight horses' competition on big fields and for airplanes/wildlife.

So you have EF lenses… then why you simply just buy a used R5 + adapter and try out, worse case you can resell the R5 for a small loss.
EF lenses works better on R body than on DSLR.
 

You can't really go wrong with both systems. Today Z8 is probably the best bang for the bucks.

I shoot with R5 and R5c since the release I'm very happy, you can search my posts here tons of discussion.
R5 overheating is a thing of the past, this summer I was shooting under the sun 8k 25 RAW with on top an iphone 13 pro max in 4k... and the iphone shut down due to overheating and the R5 kept going...
Having said this I think we will se a new R5 early next year as is now more than 3.5 years old.... so not the best moment to buy it. I think R1 will also show up in first half but who knows.
R3 is an amazing camera but I don't want to go back to 24mpix and non 8k video.
My preferred one is the R5c but once you decide Nikon vs Canon we can go deeper in the differences.

Canon has some unique zooms that you may find interesting for your job:
RF 24-105 2.8 (optional power zoom) with one lens you maybe able to cover most of your need.
RF 28-70 2.0, I love this lens, no more primes to carry around, switching lens, etc. Sold all my primes other than a el cheapo 16 2.8.
RF 70-200 2.8, some love it some not due that is an extending design, but is super small and light weight, I use mine on gimbal quite a bit.
RF 100-300 2.8 cost a fortune but is great for sports.

With two super expensive lenses and a 1 TC you can cover almost everything 24-105 2.8 100-300 2.8

If you even plan to acquire or rent cinema cameras, canon RF mount lenses may be a better choice than Z lenses as both Canon and RED have, and will have cinema camera with this mount.

In their older cameras that I have (GO2, RS, 1 Inch) they have Log profile but is 8bit only and not particularly great. So not sure I would count on it. It would be great.

The 8k 24 is a strange story as apparently reviewers are not allowed to post 8k 24, only one so far did it.

Looking forward to see some real work and not these YT reviewers madness.

Several issues with photo lens: 
Most have focus-by-wire, which I find extremely annoying. Most have very short focus throws. Most have no aperture rings and can only set aperture electronically. Most have lots of plastic and aren't as robust as cine lenses. None have 0.8 MOD focus and aperture gearing. Most don't have consistent front diameters across the line. Little correction for focus breathing.

Ok I'm convinced, in camera AI motion blur not usable... already in Resolve is a bit of a hit and miss but this example is really not good at all.