Arizona Sunset

On 3/12/2018 at 12:11 PM, dbp said:

My bread and butter is video, but I've been slowly getting more photography gigs. 

I know ideally you'd have 2 cameras for reach, but that's such a massive investment.  Right now I have the GH4, so staying with m43 is preferable.

What in ya'lls opinion is the best photo/video hybrid, assuming most of work is still video? GH5 (not GH5s) seems like the no brainer.

Given your constraints, I'd go with the GH5s and a lens or two.

The RX10 IV is also a riot to shoot with for run and gun video and low key photography, but you will want more oomph for more formal, paid photography if you want to make it rain dollars.

Specifically, I'd want the low light horsepower and look of 35mm f1.4 and 85mm f1.8 for still photography, which you can almost bridge with the m43 system.  

If you will use it as a hybrid camera, tough to beat FF goodness.  I'd go with the Canon or Sony FF sensor and not look back. For my tastes, I can't really see any other route that's as satisfying to both objectives.

But if this is *only* for video recorded in 1080p, the question is more complex in my view. As others have alluded to, I'd recommend refining your approach, as you are leaving a grip of awesome 4K cameras that when downsampled will be better than the provided choices.  You also haven't intuited your preferences for lenses, or stabilization. 

The Sony color thing is palpable for those that grade color.  For those of us that don't, that use nearly straight out of camera settings, it's less, if any, of a concern.  I believe it is very much over stated in these forums due to the level of detail and skill required in grading SLOG 8 bit, a technique that many users emphasize around here but also that doesn't apply to most hybrid shooters.

For what it's worth, I shoot a lot of handheld and love primes, and IBIS is a godsend for video.  I would take IBIS over PDAF, and 4K, for domestic purposes at least. 

2 hours ago, Curtis Ross said:

So it seems like a 8-15 min record time before overheating huh? Do the As7II's have simliar over heating issues.......

There's no overheating for the S II, or at least for my S II in 95 degree weather as tested, rather.

With these smaller cameras, the only way to avoid overheating during aggressive, high megapixel downsampling is to make the camera (heat sink) larger or add a fan, make the silicon smaller (more efficient processor/memory), or change the amount of information being processed. 

The D750 is an amazing hybrid camera, yes, and most folks like the handing, operations, features, and, critically, colors better than the S II.  

For what it's worth, I have an NX1 and S II, and unlike Mattias, I kept the S II for both 4k and 1080p quality and integrity.  I don't shoot with SLOG and I don't shoot with a tripod very often, and the latter factor played into my decision a lot.

D750, X-Pro2, NX1, E-M5 II even - they all are less predictable than the S II with artifacts and handling of patterns in all modes - it's just the way it is.  But they also are better stills cameras, with more neutral color science.  

Pick your poison!

I went ahead and ran a NOOB-like test or threeve on CINE 4, as recommended, and I dig it. 

For the configuration, I settled on:

• Gamma = Cine4
• Black Level = +3
  • Helps with shadows in FCP X - honestly, I think this could go higher if you want to simulate "SLOG2 Light"
• Black Gamma = defaults
• Knee = defaults
• Color Mode
  • Zero grading = *Movie*
  • Slight grading = Cinema 
    • Boosting in Camera Saturation + Cinema results in more red/orange cast than I prefer (others have recommended this in the past), similar to what happens with SLOG2 with in camera boosts - there's just enough balanced color to the boost for a "quick" grade in my opinion (for a new user like myself)
• Saturation = defaults
• Color Phase = defaults
• Color Depth = defaults 
• Detail = -3

Lots to learn, but overall, way happier with the look than anything else so far.

Thanks guys!

Thanks Andrew!  

For Cine4, what do you set for:

• Black Level
• Black Gamma
• Knee
• Color Mode
• Saturation

Is there any mix of the for SLOG2 that is accept for SOOC shooting?

19 hours ago, Moshimo Garcia said:

On the subject of the A7sii; seems like there are some really experienced people with its use. I wanted to ask; what Picture Profiles would you use if you had a SUPER short turnaround for a project-- talking like the edit is due the day of the shoot (interviewing). Secondly, for those on Macs, do you all convert the XAVC footage to Pro Res for editing use in Premiere? I was editing some of the footage that I shot yesterday, and it took significantly longer to render even despite the fact that I shot in 1080 compared to my GH 3 footage. 

The S II has an insane amount of settings for Picture Profiles.

I'd like to narrow this question even further with the following:

• A) Straight out of camera, which picture profile (and settings therein) gives the very best DR + most accurate/realistic look
• B) Straight out of camera, which picture profile (and settings therein) gives the very best DR + most cinematic look
• C) How do you configure these, step by step?

Since I can't answer these questions due to experience level and time to test, for turn-around time I don't use Picture Profiles, I use the Creative Styles, which doesn't really unlock the full potential of the camera, but nevertheless, gives me what I want:

• A) For a nice "clean" image - Standard 0 -1 +1 with stronger saturation applied in post
• B) For a sort-of-but-not really cinematic Neutral -1 -1 -1 with slightly stronger saturation, especially reds, and definitely stronger blacks in post
• C) "Settings" > "Camera" > "5" (menu number 5) >  "Creative Style" > Select "Standard" or "Neutral" > Configure # # # with up or down clicks on Wheely Button.  Note that I usually set Creative Style and Picture Profile to the "Function" Button shortcut to bypass the first three clicks. 

Still, if the more experienced or knowledgeable forum members could help with the first set above, that would be really useful I think.  I know this topic has been covered before, but consolidated and distilled, it has not.  

Got a little yoda there at the end, but you get the gist. 

Tough to provide a valuation to descriptions like "decent" and "unusable"   - easy to tell a person's preference this way at least

1 hour ago, sandro said:

Are you sure the a6300 degrades from 6400? The sample from cinema 5d shows much more than that!

Are you sure?  

This makes me think, G7's big brother, not A7S II's little brother (the noise starts dancing around everywhere, shadows, highlights, etc, right at ISO 3200 - this is not as a good as the R II in s35 mode even):

Inside of ISO 1600, they will be similar.   The NX1 video degrades at 3200, whereas the A6300 seems to degrade at 6400.   This is not the case for stills.  

I have an NX1, and A6000, and they are totally different cameras.  The NX1 is a joy to shoot with, higher hit rate on shallow depth of field, easy to use and fun to interact with. 

My opinion?  As good as the A6300 is, the NX1 retains APS-C champion hybrid status for 2 more years.  The only competition will be from the GH5 with 4k 60fps, if they can pull it off, which they will have to do remain in the game. 

If you are unable to buy a camera for a long time, the GH4 is a proven workhorse and should provide a stable platform for use.  With Panasonic weather sealing on their lenses and body, it would make a better "really long term" investment.

Alternatively, you might be able to pick up a camera like the NX1 and S lenses in Europe at rock bottom prices by then.  

I'd skip the A6300 simply because Sony's focus will never be APS-C - the lenses available and fine tuned for APS-C today are all that you get. 

Tough call.

In part due to the excitement about the potential NX1 hack, and in part because I missed it, I picked up an NX1 recently.  It was $2800 for the NX1 + 16-50 S, 50-150 S, 10-24, grip, batteries, and case.  At that price, I could have had a D500 and kit lens, or just an S II, or just a lone f2.8 telephoto. 

The NX1 is clearly the value proposition here. 

But the S II is a monster of a camera with massive creative potential, and if you have legacy glass or a big piggy bank, is a great choice.  You can run Zeiss primes stabilized on the S II.  With native lenses like the 24-240mm, you can use 1080p crop modes (1.5x, 2.2x, or just digital zoom that is mostly lossless) to hit 500mm FOV.  It's 1080p is demonstrably superior to the NX1.  I actually like it's colors, skin tones in RAW stills and have a lot of success in LR - in video it's a bit tougher, but it's possible when you nail exposure.  The biggest selling point, of course, is low light.  Into the evening, you can shoot the S II at f8 and be cleaner than the NX1 at f2 - in light that the NX1 won't autofocus in.

It's not an easy decision, and would be made easier if the NX1 had IBIS, or shot clean into ISO 6400, but it doesn't.  Decisions, decisions...

50 minutes ago, thatPhilGuy said:

Nice to see you in love.  Almost head-over-heals.  :-)

That honeymoon phase... ain't nothin' better... 

12 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

1 out of every 10 shot has it, but depends on the subject.

Not the kind of camera to shoot a lot of infinity focus shots of buildings with, but for actors it's rarely an issue...

brief occurrence on clothing, that's about it.

Awesome!

For context, then, here's 1/10 X-Pro2 retro experience compared to 9/10 X-T1 digital experience (almost every video I shot with the X-T1 had visible moire in it):

In contrast, an NX1, S II, R II 4k crop mode, has all lines vertical and clean.

The NX1 is a prime example of having clean 4k but 1080p with a bit of moire in it (not unlike the X-Pro2, actually), unlike, say the A7S, which is clean through and through. 

An interesting specimen, the X-Pro2, nonetheless.  

Color me yellow, jealous.  

I think that's the appeal of the X-Pro2 over the X-T1 even - it's classic, a photographers tool more than a digital experience.  Shame about the lack of 4k and moire, but I'm tempted nonetheless. Fuji said they knew their weaknesses were autofocus and video a while back, and it's so good to see the results. I personally found their lenses noisy and jumpy, quirky almost, for video, but with a beautiful image, and their cameras are improving with each generation.  Like Olympus... A bit more legacy and heritage... A bit more to go.

Do tell us more about the moire - when, where, consistency, frequency. And the autofocus in video... 

Just a crumb or two...

10 hours ago, iamoui said:

https://***URL not allowed***/sony-a6300-low-light-test-video-a-mini-a7s-ii-for-much-less/

Would like to see the old R II crop mode side by side with it.  Looks usable for average joe purposes at 3200.

The S II doesn't show that kind of ISO 6400 color shift and blocking until three stops later.

On March 4, 2016 at 9:46 PM, TheRenaissanceMan said:

Panasonic's DFD autofocus has also been shown to be faster and more accurate than any other current mirrorless.

Man, let's be real about DFD.  

The emperor has no clothes in CDAF - Panasonic pushed it to the limits, but you can't hide from the delay or the ugliness of zip-zip-lock.  There are a lot of videos showing it's shortcomings, from Tony N., to Max Y., camera store guys, and others, next to other cameras.  

It may be good enough for straight stills, but DFD is some kind of bad when left to it's own devices in video.  

The A6000 was definitely not slow next to it when I used them both, and if the A6300 is better, more power to it. 

The a5100 has a touch screen for focus point selection at minimum, and it's PDAF is similar to the A6000 - it worked awesome, just like the NX1 in my use  

I assumed that it would trickle up to the A7's, but Sony sometimes seems more interested in market share through iteration - the Canikon playbook and all.

Mattias, sorry about the injury.  Hope it heels quickly. 

Regarding you 'boring tests', how does the NX1 image hold up when adding that grain at, say, ISO 1600, 3200, 6400?    

Do you think that it makes the image more "usable" WRT to banding and blocking, perhaps, distracting from that? 

8 hours ago, Marco Tecno said:

Nx1 only shoots with a full sensor readout (1.5 crop factor from 35mm fl). Nx500 only shoots with cropped resolution, i.e. a total of about 2.53 crop factor from ff fl).

 

Hence the 150mm has an effective fl of 225mm on nx1 and of 380mm on nx500. 

 

The cool thing would ve being able to use both on the nx1, so to use a digital zoom with the same lens, as Mattias already explained.

Then for the NX1, perhaps the technique would be to either a) grab and crop the readout stream prior to downsampling, or b) constrain the readout area to match the NX500's.

This does not sound like low hanging fruit either way, but I'll root for you!

You could take the approach of digging into out how other cameras implement "digital zoom" in video, e.g., I use 1.5x digital zoom on top of either FF (4K and 1080P) or APS-C (1080p) mode on the S II, and it is almost lossless in the final form.  Could be a model for the NX1 digital zoom hack.

16 minutes ago, Ebrahim Saadawi said:

Picture Profile OFF is the nicest natural direct viewing mode. Second is Automn leaves. 

These thing are highly subjective but this is the widest adopted opinion. For shooting with ZERO grading You should hook your camera to an HDTV/Monitor and tweak the in-camera settings until you hit the sweet spot. 

Good idea - thanks - do you recommend a 4k consumer monitor, or a color-tuned monitor?  I'm guess since this for family and friend consumption (in my case), it would be the former. 

12 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Had to pay $1600 for it (twice as much as the body only retail), but it included a few lenses and a filter so its ok

Over the holiday season, I strayed from my S II prime kit, and had a very short and intense affair with an NX1, the 85, 30, and 16.  After the rental ended, I felt, well, lonely.  Like I'd given back the best mirrorless hybrid effort to date. 

Watching the NX1 hack thread unfold, and thinking about that 4k, and that in-video PDAF - which I openly abuse - I took a chance on a zoomy "daytime" NX1 kit: NX1, 16-50 S, 50-150 S, 12-24, 16, grip, batteries, etc.  Out the door, $2800 - this is a good deal in the states. 

Arrives early next week.

Couldn't be more excited. 

Some folks have mentioned a desire for a crop mode for NX1 to match the NX500's 4k crop and downsampling.  Out of curiosity, how does the NX1 implement digital / clear zoom during video OOB? Is the request for the feature because there is ineffective or poor quality digital zoom, or because there is none at all?  

Do you still need to grade S-Log2 with S-Gamut3.Cine configured? 

Mattias, nice review.  

I'm new to Sony's colors and profiles, and don't have a lot of time for grading as this is a hobby, more of a learn-as-you-go hobby.  What do you use for the most DR and best skin SOOC, assuming you're not going to grade it?

I joined EOSHD to let you guys know that I've been watching this thread, and will support ($100 on faith) a functional firmware improvement that includes some mix of RAW video and higher frame rates. I'd love to see low light video boost (and would donate more to that end) but won't hold my breath.