John Matthews

39 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

Now that the enhanced EIS is out in the wild, doubtless Panasonic will be getting lots of feedback, so there may be performance improvements to it in the future. For the vlogging situation, it sounds like it needs to be made a bit more 'floaty'.

I think there's a fine line between making stabilization appear natural. I think the gold standard will continue to be gimbals and steadicams with experienced operators. The "pinball" vlogging effect is also apparent on GoPros and such and I think most people don't notice that much. Again, if you're operating the camera and filming others, you don't notice and it looks amazing, like no other FF camera.

6 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

I don't own the camera, but looking at the updated manual the 'H' proxy file HEVC bitrate looks quite reasonable at 16Mbps for 60p/50p and 12Mbps for 30p and below - roughly equivalent to the 8-bit FHD AVC mp4 bitrates of 28 and 20Mbps. It would be interesting to know how the quality of the 'H' proxies - when recording 'main' 4k - compares to 'main' FHD recordings at equivalent bitrates e.g. is it doing high quality down-sampling from the 4k stream for the proxies?

My feeling is that H quality would be better than the lowest available bitrate in the camera (20mbps H.264 8bit) as it's 12mbps H.265 AND 10bit. I think the compression is about the same but with more color information. I haven't really tried the M quality- the compression seems massive in that though. It would probably depend on the scene. The quality of the H Proxy really looks quite acceptable. The L quality was a huge step down though. I'll need to try the M setting tomorrow.

Concerning the EOIS at the wide lenses and vlogging style videos, it seems rather unnatural (as the video above indicated). Sure, it the background looks stable, but the subject seems to bounce around everywhere like a pinball. I think it's probably better as a traditional gimbal replacement where the camera's a little further from the subject and the operator is carefully walking. I have the Panasonic 70-300mm lens and it has great Dual IS 2. I haven't really noticed an improvement to already one of the most stable setups on the market. In face, I'd say the EOIS interferes with the OIS of the lens. Again, I need more testing.

One "issue" I'm seeing with proxies is it caries the 4 channels of audio is you're shooting MOV and you choose the highest and medium quality proxy. That's probably the behavior you'd want, but I'd really like to have some sort of option. The only way to get 2 channels (L and R) in the proxy is to record in the MP4 option or you go to the 720p proxy (H.264).

In terms of file size, proxies are often less than 10% of the "keeper" file- huge savings. Now, I need to figure out the best to use them in Final Cut Pro. I imagine you could put the bigger files on a much cheaper storage option and just edit with the proxies.

Another cool thing is to apply the Realtime LUT to only proxies and leave the original as vanilla V-LOG, much like a RAW + JPEG photo workflow.

I successfully upgraded my S5ii to v3.0. It's going to take some testing, but the EOIS High seems great on wider focal lengths. I'm not too convinced on the telephoto side.

Here's another video on the firmware that should be coming out within the next few hours:

3 hours ago, MrSMW said:

What else is there in this class right now?

Sony A7iv? Arguably better for stills but not as good for video.

Nikon Z6ii? Equal for stills but not as good for video.

Canon R6ii? Some will prefer its full frame 4k 60p but otherwise I don’t think it’s quite as complete a camera as the S5ii. And if you were already in the system, no reason to change. 

The Z6iii will be the next interesting one I am sure, at least equalling the S5ii for video and stills but taking the overall experience to the next level. I think…

M43 must come up with capable small bodies- PDAF and 4k 60fps. Instead, we've got very capable FF-sized bodies. I've still got some decent lenses for the system, but my patience is running thin as used M43 gear keeps going up (the opposite effect of what you'd think, but the need for small systems has skyrocketed).

I'm very curious to see what the new S5ii firmware does. Sure, it still has some limitations with regard to FF 60fps, but it makes up for it in other ways, especially tools.

I don't think Panasonic was expecting so many options for L mount APS-C. Sigma is going to start taking some market share from M43 IMO.

This video answers a lot about EIS high. I look forward to trying this out on Monday. This guy tried out lots of APS-C L-mount lenses- I was surprised how many there are now. Also, there are some that could be amazing with that 1.43x crop in EIS high. Here's the S5i with the Sigma 10-18. I imagine this would be a cheap, great combo.

I've long thought that if Panasonic makes just a little smaller L-mount camera (FF), they'll kill M43, especially with all the APS-C lenses now available. Right now, it seems M43 only has 4k 120fps and widely available smaller lenses; the rest is practically a wash, including price. 

3 hours ago, kye said:

The third is to shoot on auto-WB.
I've found that, on my Panasonic cameras at least, the WB errors are pretty minor, and the WB is pretty close - even if the lighting is quite variable and I'm taking shots from different angles and in different locations etc.  
This means that you'll be making only very small corrections, but they could be in the magenta/green Tint axis as well as the warm/cool Temp direction.  We're quite sensitive to Tint errors, so this means that adjusting these is a bit more fiddly, and can take some practice, but is perfectly possible.

I like the idea of Auto-WB and have done it many times. The only issue I have with the idea is when the camera decides to alter the WB mid shot; then I need to go through the footage and try to correct. It always seems to look strange. Panasonic, in general, isn't so bad at this, but my camcorder (VX980/81) is more agressive with this.

If I shoot in daylight WB and just make sure I don't turn on any lights (or add daylight lighting), the shots will look generally great. If I'm off a little, I can correct the whole thing at once.

5 hours ago, kye said:

As you were the one that asked for skin tones, was there a specific situation you were thinking of when you asked?

I thought your question might be related to your adventures with the GX850 and shooting out in the real-world?

Yes. The question I've asked myself many times has been: "If I make a mistake in WB, is it better to error on warm side or the cool side when considering skin tones in 8 bit?" From your results, I think it's more on the warm side. Do you concur?

When I shoot, I'd really prefer to just choose ONE WB for the entire time. If I need to, I'd like to adjust just a little in post. I think the most important is to get the first shot right.

On 4/9/2024 at 10:32 AM, kye said:

I'm still working on this (and in fact am programming my own set of plugins) so there will be more on this to come, especially as now I have a good set of test images.

Thank you so much for this hard work. I'm going to look further into this during my holiday.

Yes, some of the images with wrong WB and underexposed would be expected to be trash, but it's nice to know there are some editing techniques that save it a little. In all honesty, I'd probably just go for monochrome or tint if this were to happen to me.

I'm rather curious to see how the AF features translate to video. From what I've seen from the G9ii, it's very good. I'll be one of the first to check into this. Also, I'd like to play around with those proxy files as they could be changing many people's workflow and storage considerations. I remember the A7r ii started with style of proxy editing and I wonder if it'll be better with Panasonic's implementation.

I've purchased some new and some used. If you're super lucky, you can buy new for used prices. IMO, that is the time to buy. For Panasonic, it's during Black Friday. A few years back, I got the Olympus E-P7 with the kit lens and the Olympus 75mm f/1.8 for 899 euros. That's probably the best deal I've ever found for new. In France, you have leboncoin, which is very good too with some amazing deals from people who just want to unload material or just don't understand what they have. When you buy, you have the choice of sending it back. If you know your cameras, you can thoroughly test it. Buying off Ebay is an option too, but you never seem to find good deals anymore (I gave up). MBP is also a great choice, but they're too expensive for some cameras and lenses.

3 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

I'm thinking about replacing my old Pana 20mm F1.7 (with slow and noisy AF) with the Oly 17mm F1.8. I find I commonly use around 18mm as a focal length on zoom lenses, so having a fast (and quiet) prime at that length makes sense for me.

If size is the utmost importance, I'd just stick with the 20mm. Yes, the AF is a pain 1-3% of the time, but you can live with it. I got rid of two of them and I regret it today. I love the Olympus 17 f/1.8, but it is just slightly bigger.  Otherwise, I'm fine with the 14mm f/2.5. If size isn't important, I have the 17mm f/1.2 and I find it a true gem...

20 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

My combo is usually the 14-140mm plus 25mm F1.8.

On my last 'serious' trip (almost two weeks of railway video/stills photography in Southern California), I took a G9 + 14-140mm + 25mm F1.8 (for low light), used hand-held, with G80 + 12-32mm used as an occasional tripod-mounted 'B' cam. I took the G80 instead of the (smaller) GX80 because it has a mic jack.

If I were doing a similar trip now I think it would be OM-1 (main) and ZV-1 (B-cam), but lens choice for the OM-1 would be harder as I recently bought a used Oly 12-100mm F4 IS Pro. It's much larger and heavier than the 14-140mm Pana, but it supports Sync-IS on Oly/OMDS bodies and the overall stabilisation performance is fantastic.

If you buy a used Pana 14-140mm F3.5-F5.6, be careful about which version you are getting. Panasonic sold the Mk 1 version (H-FS14140) in two different markings - white, gold and red 'HD' lettering (earlier lenses) or all white lettering (later lenses). Then they updated it to the Mk 2 (H-FSA14140) with weather sealing and all white lettering. AFAIK all are optically the same, and support Dual-IS and Dual-IS2. I've come across dealers who've mixed up the white-lettered later Mk 1 and the Mk 2 versions in their used listings...

The 14-140 is definitely on my short list. I think I might go with the 17mm f/1.8 for indoor stuff/low-light.

7 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

Note that of the pancake lenses, only the Oly has a focus ring, but it doesn't have any OIS - swings and roundabouts...

I agree that the only usable MF (focus while filming) is on the Olympus 14-42 EZ, but no OIS as you said. The Panasonic 14-42 PZ is the next best with a silly MF lever. I've had all three lenses though and never thought of trying to manual focus one after the other- could be an interesting comparison.

5 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

I'm not sure if it was brought up before in this thread, but apparently Yaroslav got some new old stock of the Z Cam E1.

https://www.soltyscameras.com/product-page/z-cam-e1

I really didn't like mine at all when I had it (and I was so pleasantly surprised by the E2), but as far as I know, it is still the smallest 4K ILC camera ever produced.  If you do get, avoid the log profile.

Yes, we have talked about it. I'm not sure if it should be disqualified due to a lack of a proper shutter for photos.

1 hour ago, kye said:

Gary W bought the GX850 when this thread was going strong, and he's just posted his 2 month review with it.  He mostly takes stills so that's the focus of his review.

TDLR; he really likes it and finds that it has an X-factor that he can't explain that makes him really enjoy using it.  It's not going to replace his GX85, but it makes a great compliment to it.

 

Yes, I saw a few videos regarding this. He's right- it's a fun camera and I wish Panasonic would update it. The best part of it is the flip-up screen. Unfortunately, the worst part about it is the moiré in 1080p and overheating in 4k at 5 minute or less. As a travel camera or B-cam, it's a great choice IMO.

What I find amazing is the fact that many of the newer small cameras cannot be kept in-stock; yet, we see nothing from Panasonic who IMO is the leader in know-how for this category of camera. I'm not sure if their heads are stuck in the sand or just bad forward thinking. In any case, it isn't good. Hope they turn it around soon.

On 3/14/2024 at 12:20 AM, kye said:

I watched a bunch of ATEM Mini reviews yesterday and it looks like that would be a great setup to upgrade to once we're up and running.

A few minor questions, if you happen to know:

• If you enable picture-in-picture and have it so that the setting persists between inputs, and then switch to input 1 (the source of the PiP) does it give you input 1 with a PiP of input 1?  or does it disable the PiP for that angle?  and if it does disable it, does it re-enable it when you swap to another angle?
• Does it delay the audio inputs to match the audio delay on the HDMI inputs?
• Did it get upgraded to have a multi-screen view on the HDMI out?  or is it still limited to either Program or Preview?
• Is there any way to run macros from the hardware device?  Having a custom PiP would be great but the PiP buttons erase any custom settings apparently.

Unfortunately the best reviews were the ones done when it came out, and they are obviously only of the initial firmware.

I use the ATEM mIni in a very simple way. Again, it's to limit the things that could go wrong, but it has been very reliable. I only use it to show my iPad screen (this can be very customizable). I just push the picture in picture button to "on" and there's my screen. I'm on the side of the screen so my students can still see me. There are macro features and tons of other things, but you cannot do simple things like play a media file (that's why I have the iPad). Also, a lot of stuff is simple too hard to get ready. On the iPad, it's a cake-walk. You could also use in combination with OBS or something. I have done this but find the iPad solution works better and it's more intuitive- again, no preparation provided I've prepared the lesson on the iPad in the first place. My goal was to simple go to the live setup area, turn on a power strip or two and connect. I should say that I only do one-to-one classes, not groups and it further simplifies everything. The number of variable is astounding and I'm surprised I've had few problems (knock on wood). In April, I'll be getting fiber put in (not that I really need it), but it could be the biggest challenge that my system has faced- wish me luck.

16 hours ago, kye said:

Have people been doing a lot of live-streaming for clients etc?  or themselves?

I've done hundreds of hours now in English training. It's not my main gig, but it's good to do something a little different.

I use a GH2 with the Olympus 17mm f/1.8, a M2 MacMini, a Behringer mixer, a Atem Mini, a Audio-Technica AT 875 R, an iPad Pro 12.9", an Apple Pencil, 3 cheap lights with softboxes, and some decent headphones. I've tried many other things too, but so far, this works best for me. My cardinal rule is to have as much as possible with a cord and no batteries as to reduce my single point failures. My only exception is the Apple Pencil, but I plug it in whenever I'm done. The key for me is to have as little setup time as possible- just flip one or two switches and I'm up and ready to go.

46 minutes ago, EspenB said:

Patents expire after 20 years.

The basic "internal compressed RAW" patent expires in april 2028. Or the end of the same year, I'm not sure.

In any case "the patent" only has four years to go.

https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?msg=RED.com RAW patents expire&p0=840&ud=2&year=2028&month=4&day=11&hour=0&min=0&sec=0&fromtheme=party

I'm fairly certain every manufacturer who's interested will have something lined up for that moment. In fact, I'll probably just wait it out. There's also a chance Nikon gets some easy money for licensing the idea of compressed to others on the cheap- that would be good for whole industry and also good for Nikon. Four years is nothing at this point when 2010 cameras are still viable solutions in 2024 and beyond.

Redcode RAW was initially implemented in the early 2010s, but the filing was December 28th 2007. I imagine the patent will only last a few more years. This must have also played a role in the acquisition. Nikon will have a very short window to leverage it.

1 hour ago, sanveer said:

I mentioned this, because its curious how such promising sensors, that should be in modern cinema cameras, never really come to fruition. RED has been bullying the industry on RAW video, and a few others on sensor and hardware development? 

This is actually a great point. Maybe Nikon hopes to have more leverage in sensor negotiations with Sony or anyone else.

1 hour ago, JulioD said:

No way is Nikon making a Burano type camera.  
 

Nothing will change at either company.  
 

A few years from now RED fold from stagnation or gets bought back by the owners and re-launches.  
 

Exactly. Nikon has shown over and over again that their management gets cocky and stupid; then, they end up promoting some guy who knows what they're doing and turn the ship around making some awesome products, only to return to the previous situation cocky leadership and 5+ years of stagnant products. Red survives on lawsuits and ULA's. The now ex-owners are in a "cash-in" situation where they can buy it back at a later date when Nikon fails.

Yes, Nikon came out with some great products recently, for sure, but who thinks they truly know what they're doing at a business, financial, and cultural level? The jury is still very much out on their turn-around. Give it another 5-10 years and we'll see.

I've always been bothered by both of these companies. Nikon has always been a company with great valued products and colors, but since the 80s, it's been on a downward trend in terms of quality and often spewing arrogant remarks. That might only be in the USA division though.

I've never used Red product and probably never will, but they seem more interested in user agreements than pleasing users. Also, they have horrible PR. Again, extremely arrogant.

So, arrogance meets arrogance. I hope they can make something positive and useful of this.

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

A lens similar to either of these is THE fundamental weak spot for me with L Mount.

I realize you like your Tamrons, but I imagine, being a rather open mount, we'll see a lot more. Anything Samyang, Tamron, or other will probably come out on L-mount. No reason why they wouldn't.

I saw the Petapixel video. In low light, the AF was probably in contrast AF only mode- lots of jitters in the bokeh.