WyattMaurer

Sort of related, Vision Color is hinting at a new product on it's website...

http://www.vision-color.com/

First off, don't buy one tonight. Spending 4k shouldn't be done on a whim. Take time to consider your options.

The Red One MX shouldn't be considered if your looking to do stuff in a commercial context as it is huge and will be a PITA logistically.

If you already have a CY to MFT speedbooster you could use that with a MFT BMCC 2.5k and have a 1.7 crop factor. This is pretty close to S35, but you would have to use only CY glass which is great glass, but expensive and slow at the wide end. You should probably just sell your speedbooster and put it towards your budget as it is going to be very limiting to only be able to use CY glass if you want to use the SB.

You don't need 4k for professional looking images. It is more important what is in front of the camera and who is operating the camera. Don't hesitate to consider 1080p cameras. If someone insist on 4k you can always rent another camera.

Does your budget need to include lenses? Because this is

Do you need raw? And do you have a computer that can handle a raw workflow if you do?

If you are fine without RAW and cool with 1080p then I would recommend either a C100 Mark i or a BMPCC (or BMMCC) w speedbooster lens wise if you need one I would go with a Canon 17-55 2.8 EFS and some sort of long zoom maybe a CY 80-200 F4

The C100 is 800,000 times better than the black magic from a usability and workflow perspective and will motivate you to get out and shoot as dealing with the footage and using the camera is relatively easy. If you are doing mostly commercial stuff I would recommend this option.

The BMPCC w a speedbooster is a spectacular option as well, though not as streamlined.

The reason I don't reccomend the BMCC 2.5k w speedbooster is that it is hard to control EF lenses w an electronic aperture.

Hope this helps good luck

This is a total pipe dream and probably will never happen, but I think if the D16 were reincarnated with the same sensor, but with super 35 lens coverage via a built in speed booster/focal reducer with an active EF mount and a more professional looking less stylized design it could have a ton of appeal.

The built in speed booster would solve the lowlight problem and I think S35 EF glass would make it more accessible to a lot of people. If you made it a straightforward black box design and added more industry standard battery/recording media options like V Lock and CFAST rather then non standard internal options people might be a little more willing to look into the camera. Internal prores with Bolex Log would make it a killer workhouse camera as well and make people a lot more willing to consider it.

It'd still be only 1080p, but the C100 MK1/2 show that an incredibly solid 1080p image can still be very relevant in todays world. If it was priced around $4-5000 and spat out a prores image with awesome color science and an easy workflow then it could be a very relevant camera IMO.

On 6/17/2016 at 10:58 AM, Andrew Reid said:

I've recently had a View Assist 4K 7"on loan from Blackmagic. Here are some observations on this newcomer to the 4K recorder party.

Read the full review

This is sort of off topic, but what type of hotshoe mount is that in the picture?

Mad Max: Fury Road!!!

Amazing production design. Tom Hardy is the man.

Interesting interview. Looks like you get the quality of optics and a lot of the features of a cine zoom, but give up a stop of speed and the focusing precision tolerances that would come with cine zooms.

I hope LUTs are available at some point :/

2 minutes ago, AaronChicago said:

They definitely have a lot to prove with execution and image quality, but they get an A for innovation. I really like the ND slide.

Yeah, it will be interesting to see some actual footage. If they can get around (BMPCC, BMCC) level of DR with a global shutter in both the sensors and execute all of the design features they are showing off well that would really be impressive.

ND slide is a little confusing to me. From the website it looks like there are contacts for electronic control on the bottom. Is that for switching ND strength? Can it be toggled to no ND at all with the ND sled still in? If it can what is the point of the sled being removable? I'm sure we will find out eventually.

Just now, Nikkor said:

I wonder if it's the same sensor as the Blackmagic production camera 4K

Yeah, it will be interesting to see the specific tech specs. They list the 4k sensor as 13 stops, while Blackmagic list the production camera as 12 stops. Companies claims of DR are always to be taken w a grain of salt though.

This is all very subjective, but the reason I'm excited about future Kine cameras is that to me the images coming out of the Kine sensors all have a nice matte like characteristic as opposed to the glossy feel of a lot of modern cameras. Feels very organic and cinematic. I know those words get thrown around a lot, sometimes to the point of wanting to claw your eyes out sometimes, but I can't think of any other way to describe it.

10 hours ago, Policar said:

I'm not writing it off. It's a huge market. I even personally traded up from entry-level DLRs to a C100 first chance I had, which I paid off quickly and now use for occasional paychecks and mostly for fun and promotional work for myself. I love that camera, and I even was really happy with my old Canon dSLRs. The ergonomics are fantastic, image seems great to me, too, all that i need 90% of the time, but it rents poorly tbh. And I meanwhile watched friends with C300s pull a constant $600-$1000/day and do some work that looked great to me–and that's still vastly less than high end shooters making $10k dry per day and using a rented Amira someone else paid for.

But low end pros represent a boring market despite their prevalence. The epitome of "good enough." Shooters with lower aspirations and vastly less skill than most here have. Canon pros are just journeyman shooters who are content to pay rent and for whom $10-$20k/month shooting branded content is worth more than artistic integrity. Meanwhile, the shooters here aspire to beat Oscar-winners at their own game with a thousandth the budget, and many here own production companies billing seven figures in revenue and hundreds of thousands in profit a year but who still aren't content with the banal images they're getting it seems from lenses like this. To me, this lens seems like a great product for the price and one I'd love to use could I afford it, but it undeniably caters to low end pros–pragmatists and hacks. This forum is for high end amateurs, that is to say artists–not small-minded paycheck hacks.

I'm broke, so I'm more of a hack. I wasn't born into money and I have serious expenses I need to pay off in a city where $80k presents a yearly living wage and I just don't care that much about art if it lets me save bills for a mortgage down payment or PS4. If I had a better eye I'd think otherwise, maybe. I don't know. To me this represents a good investment, not an artistic shortcoming. Pathetic, I know. :/ 

So as regards market, let's not forget how smart this kind of product is. I know first hand. And it seems myopic for better shooters to dismiss it just because their better content is pulling them enough money to forget the little guys, or they're just artists for whom money is immaterial. This lens is from a company. It's about money and market research. For those who purchase it, it's about, money, too. Let's not dismiss that. Like for like.

But as regards aesthetics, let's dismiss it readily. I don't have the luxury to do so, but I commend those of better taste who do; their art is our hope for a better future. Look at the garbage in cinemas today. When you reject a product like this you demand better from everyone. Don't forget your taste or talent; it exceeds the hacks that seek to bring you down. Demand more. Create better. Create art that demands more from others, that offers them better but also asks for better in return. A lot of what I read here confuses me, but I know recognize that that's good–great art confuses at first. It transcends the explicable. 

Don't be so small-minded.

This is a really weird post Policar... I don't understand how you can dismiss this lens on the aesthetics of it's image when only a press release has been released. It's a Canon cine zoom so it will probably look and perform great. You act like people who are using it would be compromising their precious artistic integrity somehow and that all people who do video work without artistic motivations are hacks who are below the great minds of this forum. Then you assert that the person you are quoting shouldn't be so small-minded...

I don't understand the people saying there won't be a market for it and that it will be a niche product. There are probably tons of people with c300s (though not a ton at EOSHD) that do run and gun stuff for whom this would be perfect. The servo let's you cover things on the fly incredibly well and you get and you get an unimpeachable image at a constant aperture in a pretty useful zoom range. T4.4 isn't a huge deal if you have a camera that performs well at higher iso and the lens is a fraction of the cost of a lot of other servo zooms. 

Some people at EOSHD seem to act like if it doesn't appeal to the Blackmagic, GH4 crowd then there is going to be no demand for it, but there is a whole market of video professionals that are probably psyched about this.

This is an interesting video that someone posted in regard to this article in the comments on a facebook group. It's not about vintage lenses, but Cookes.

http://nofilmschool.com/2016/02/sigma-50-100mm-f18-30mm-f14-mc-11-e-mount-lens-adapter

Looks like it will be $1100 which seems very reasonable.  The leak had it at 167400 yen (aprox $1500) I'm glad the western market price is lower. I can't see this being big in the stills community because of the narrow zoom range, no IS and crop sensor size, but I think this will be huge in the film/videography set as a complement to the 18-35 as other people have said.

A lot of exciting stuff here, but what do people think of the possibility of an a7000/6100 making it out at IBC? So many exciting features here, but $3000, although fair, is pretty steep for a lot of people.

I think it comes down to a more mature market that ask more of its cameras and the progression of online videography in general. It's no longer stills cameras w a nifty video mode that a bunch of diy peeps/ hobbyist/maybe some promotional people are having fun messing around with. Nowadays as web video becomes a more and more omnipresent and culturally prevelant form of communication people are looking for more stability/intuitiveness from their cameras. As awesome and beautiful as ml raw is it is by no means intuitive or stable.

The market is also more fragmented and people have tons of options that can get them tons/most of the features they want/prioritize at a price they can bare w no hacking or fiddling required.

The Aperatus project definitely keeps the hacking spirit alive and makes more sense from a usability perspective because of the ground up nature of it. If your interested in this sort of thing that is definitely worth checking out!