austinchimp

17 hours ago, The Dancing Babamef said:

"This is a low/no budget camera review." *price is set at $5 999* I'm not going to mention the price of the kit when it comes to RF-glass and the memory cards. When you see someone saying they're looking for a camera with little to no budget, are you going to offer this as a reasonable option? 

Stop taking what ever it is that makes write that hyperbolic and disingenuous garbage on 2nd/3rd paragraph, looks like a JPEG-shooter's opinion anyway. 

low/no budget referred to the production value of the review itself, not to the type of productions it would be used on. As in - this review has been shot with a very low budget. They obviously don't use a big crew or have a gaffer with them, or even a proper DP. It's a run and gun review. With that knowledge, I don't expect too much. I just want to see simple demonstrations to illustrate what they're talking about.

Maybe your expectations are different, which is fine. Maybe if you post some examples of your work we can see what kind of level you're expecting? Not trying to provoke, only to understand where you're coming from.

Now I haven't watched the review itself, but aren't we being a bit harsh here?

I find this a useful - if basic - demonstration of the DR and a quick and dirty grade. It's an ugly shot, sure. It's not a Hollywood level production, but if I'm being honest this is the kind of shot I end up with in my edits frequently, and the kind of shot you want to know you can salvage something 'usable'. Not spectacular or perfect, but usable, and in that case this is a good demonstration.

If you're expecting world-class images from both a technical and artistic standpoint then go see Dune in the cinema or watch any number of big-budget movies. This is a low/no budget camera review.

As a content maker myself I can see what he was trying to do, and it was adequate in my view. I don't like this attitude of piling on on somebody for one shot that you personally might have done different.

Or perhaps all of our work is beyond reproach with every shot a masterpiece?

Have you tried the GHa luts for the S1? I can tell you that they work great and elevate the colour completely. The S1 files have enough data and latitude that you can match to the Alexa pretty well. 

Here's another lut pack that does the same thing - 

15 hours ago, alvaromedina said:

This video was shot entirely with the pocket and the panny 14mm 2.5...the exposure and the color grading sometimes is really bad, but overall I really like the organic texture it has, like old indie feature films. And as you says, despite of being a 14mm, with the 2.88x crop turns out to be a very good close up lens for people, I don´t see any distortion on human faces when they are close to the camera.

 

pass: vacaciones

Beautiful. Videos like this are the counterargument to the technical assertion that "every camera is the same, you just need to know how to process the images correctly". Yes, maybe that is technically true, but how much work and how many hours would you need to put into a Sony A7s or a GH5 to get it to have this emotional weight and texture? Something about these old Blackmagic sensors is just magical, it feels like memories. Lovely for you to have captured precious moments like this.

Can't comment on Nikons but the A7rii is a pretty stunning photo camera with one of the best sensors I've ever used. I'm still stunned by the quality of the images today.

It's also a pretty decent video camera as long as you don't need high frame rates. I was using the A7rii for sports shooting and my only real complaint was the small and slow buffer, so when I'd fire off a few frames of something cool happening, the buffer would get full and basically freeze the camera for a few seconds until the buffer had cleared. For portraits and slower work where you don't need to fire off 100 full res shots in quick succession then it's great.

It would be interesting to see some detailed technical analysis of why images from different cameras look so different - for example the GH5 and the Arri Alexa. We know they do look different, and even if you took both images and outputted them to the exact same compressed h264 file format, there would still be a massive difference between them. Even discounting the obvious colour and dynamic range differences it seems to be there is a massive difference in the texture of the image and motion itself.

But what exactly is happening in the pipeline of a GH5, or A7SIII that makes it different? Then we could start to work out which specific process was to blame, and maybe how to undo it or ask for manufacturers to change it. I guess without one of the manufacturers opening up their secret recipe, we'll never know.

All I know is fairly vague terms like 'noise reduction' and 'sharpening'. I do agree with @kye that sharpening+processing+compression is likely an irreversible destructive process.

13 hours ago, kye said:

and now that I have a BMMCC and my OG BMPCC is on its way, I will add that the footage from these cameras also grades absolutely beautifully straight-out-of-camera - they too (as well as Fairchild who made the sensor) did a great job on the colour science.  The P4K/P6K footage is radically different and doesn't share the same look at all.

I have a theory that the new Sony sensors have a lot of inbuilt processing done on the chip itself or in the accompanying electronics, which you can see in the new BMPCC4k cameras. It feels a lot more sharpened and as if there's processing or noise reduction in there. The newer BM pocket 4k and 6k cameras look very similar to the GH5s and Z-Cam cameras for me. A nice image, but not with the same magic or feel.

Some have speculated that it's about the jump up to 4k, but I feel like there's something else going on there.

On 4/6/2021 at 10:51 PM, BenEricson said:

Nah, it's pretty bad. Do a search for even Canon C70 footage. Nothing you can find will look this good. There's tons of flat looking footage, but almost nothing with a standard balanced REC709 grade. The C300 Mkii looked good to me as well. One of the easiest cameras to get beautiful skin tone out of.

Yeah I'm really conflicted about log profiles on consumer cameras. I honestly don't like the way most footage is graded these days, and the popular style of 'cinematic grading' which to me usually looks flat and weird when done by amateurs. The worst casualty has been skin tones, with rich vibrant alive tones replaced by green grey yellow orange stylised skin in 90% of videos on Youtube. 

Whether that's to do with Sony sensors or just Log profiles is a difficult question. I do know however that I have rarely seen skin tones out of any Sony camera below the FX9 that I've liked.

One of the things I'm struck by when I watch old movies shot on film - from the 70s through to the 90s - is how natural and beautiful everything looks, before every shadow had to be dark blue and every skin tone had to be sunburnt orange or desaturated grey.

On 4/4/2021 at 8:17 AM, kye said:

 

To put things into perspective, here's a video from the GH1 that I saw shared recently.  To my eyes, it look better than almost everything I see posted in the last couple of years.

 

Wow Panasonic really nailed colour back then. When I look at this and the colour from the 5Dmkii I have to wonder what the hell happened since then? Maybe my negative perception of colour in consumer cams 2014-2020ish mostly comes from Sony dominance and the pandora's box of giving S-Log to the masses.

Not sure if it's placebo or something in the compression used by consumer cameras these days but I definitely perceive a certain flatness and lack of colour density in many hybrid cameras and camcorders these days, and the common factor in most of them is Sony sensors. Out of all the consumer brands, Canon seems to stand out as being an exception in that regard. They seem to be capable of producing more rich tones straight out of the camera.

I was also never that into the colour from the BMPCC4k with it's Sony sensor, compared to the Ursa image.

It's been said many times on this forum, but I do wish manufacturers would focus less on 8k and more on getting colour right, after all Arri has been showing how to do it right for a decade now!

1 hour ago, Sage said:

@austinchimp Flipping between them, it is quite a pleasing improvement! Where is that location?

Yeah I think the skintone is much better with the S1a lut. It's from a hike near Benidorm in Spain.

On 10/23/2020 at 4:25 PM, Sage said:

@austinchimp The way GHa deviates on the S1 feels oddly earthy and 'filmy'. S1a restores that Arri vibrant technicolor quality (1:1 to the other measured LogCs). With each new camera, I add side by sides to the Match gallery. I had the S1 on loan, but I'm considering the S1H, because its quite a good camera (Intra, 180 deg, Olpf are vital in for me)

 

I purchased the S1 set, and I see what you mean about the colour deviation between the GHa and S1a Luts. I was quite happy with GHa on my S1 footage, but the S1 High Scale Lut looks more vibrant and cleaner to me compared to the GHa Linear conversion. Better colour separation and fidelity. 

Thanks for your hard work, this is a really valuable tool and a pleasure to use!

Footage is 1080p 10 bit from the S1, basic corrections with the luts applied on top, ungraded. Top is S1a, bottom is GHa.

On 10/17/2020 at 5:23 PM, BTM_Pix said:

An example of continuous AF on a handheld Pocket4K with Panasonic/Leica 12-60mm.

 

Is that Alicante port?

I work nearby.

@Sage Is there a discount for Emotive Color packages if you've previously bought the LUTs for another camera? I got the GH5 set and am considering the S1 set.

Don't think this has been posted before - I saw this example from the Emotive Color site, and I genuinely can't believe how good this looks. It must be my favourite example of GH5 footage. Stunning filmlike color. I'd love to know more about how he graded it.

1 hour ago, Sage said:

 

It lives! The Sony a7s III conversion is now complete as well.

Very excited about your S1 LUTs. I've been using the GH5 luts on my S1 so far and seems to work great.

Are the GH5 and S1 luts very different? Do you have any samples of the Lut on the S1 or S1H? I looked on the Emotive Color site and couldn't find any. Thanks for your work and for being a presence on here.

23 hours ago, Trankilstef said:

I really love this footage : 

The most "cinematic" video I've seen from this camera so far and makes me want to buy it !

You'd be better off buying that lens, which is 90% of the look of that video. Global shutter probably helps too, but I bet you could get a similar look from the Zcam E2, A7SIII, S1H etc if you had the same glass.

On 8/21/2020 at 8:53 PM, mojo43 said:

I can't remember if I already posted this, but we shot this with mostly S1. Couldn't believe the quality of the image. Truly amazing.

 

Beautiful work. Can I also ask what sharpening you did and how you exported it? Some of the shots are so sharp and crisp, particularly of the woman near the fire at the end. Looks fantastic.

I always struggle to get crisp exports, even when the original footage has very high fidelity. I feel like h264 footage comes out much worse on Vimeo/YT compared to footage recorded in raw or prores for some reason.

11 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I wish they'd allow the S1 to do Prores RAW.

On another note @Andrew Reid

A while back you suggested I buy a Lumix S1 over the URSA 4.6k, turns out you were right. Just got the S1 in the mail today and the image is absolutely incredible. 

It's easy to get FOMO and be distracted by the latest cameras from Canon and Sony (which for me both look fantastic as a run & gun event shooter) but the S1 has a beautiful image which I have yet to fully exploit. Also a far better stills camera than the A7Siii, which is essential for me.

I do hope we're getting to a post-camera landscape where all the cameras are so fantastic that we can just stick with what we've got and concentrate on the work. We've probably been there for a few years already, but with the new cameras around right now I certainly have much less envy of Red and Arri users. In most situations, with the right glass, you'd struggle to tell the difference.

I know Andrew isn't always a fan of people just posting Youtube links, but after a while it's nice to see some (what I would consider) cinematic samples of the camera coming out these days. Good to remember with the new Canon announcements that the ceiling for this cam remains incredibly high.

On 6/11/2020 at 4:05 PM, heart0less said:

 

If I were to upgrade from X-T3, most likely I'd choose the S1.

That's exactly what I did. I kept the X-T3 as it's a lovely camera to use and compact, but the S1 beats it in photo and video quality in every way (except autofocus...)

My first impression of your travel video is that you uploaded it in an extremely low bitrate, which does it a big disservice. Could you upload it at 20,000 - 40-000 kbps? I downloaded the ungraded still of the man playing the violin and it also looks like 720p, which again doesn't help.

To me, the color space transformed shot looks about right for the lighting, the violinist is obviously very much in the shade, which you've exposed to keep the highlights. I think there's just too much dynamic range in this shot for the camera to expose the skin tones nicely, as they're firmly in the shadows.

The good news is that I don't think it looks terrible! If those were the lighting conditions then that's what it was, and the way you exposed it avoids any nasty highlight clipping. If the man was standing in the shade, then it's ok for him to look like he's in the shade. He doesn't have to look like he has a fill light.

Maybe try playing with the curves a little to bring up the skin tones if possible, while keeping some blacks. 

4 hours ago, funkyou86 said:

 

 

This is great!

17 hours ago, Sage said:

I haven't used the S1 myself; I believe that @austinchimp and @Parker use it with the S1 specifically. I 'd like to support the S1 directly eventually, though there are some hefty items I'm working on at the present moment. With V4 specifically, the standard is now to project 'edge' behavior of a color space infinitely into theoretical values beyond 0-1 (resulting in clean theoretical values beyond the target color space). This means that if a V4 conversion is used on unintended display formats, they will be handled as if they were an extension of that core transform at center, free of artifacts (unlike V3). The entirety of S1 gamut and DR are addressed by the conversion, albeit not directly measured.

Yes GHa works very well on my S1 and S1H files using Premiere. I haven't seen a real difference between the two cameras in terms of colour. If I were using Resolve I'd probably go with a color transform node and get it into Arri space or something, but I prefer Premiere so I just drop the Lut over my footage. Generally I need to reduce the exposure on the footage to get the Lut looking good.

I tried loading the monitoring LUT into the camera, but it looked awful - probably because the S1 is a different camera to the GH5 obviously.

I also tried the native Panasonic LUTs on the footage, but GHa looks a million times better. I like the Linear version personally, then grade from there.

Of course I'd love a proper S1 version of GHa too! I think that would be phenomenal... Looking forward to a monitoring lut that works with the S1