jpb

This has all been conveyed to BM directy and indirectly many times. What they do or don't do.....
I'm not sure what you mean by "again" regarding Sony. They're very diffferent cameras and companies in about every way, and if IQ is your concern then there isn't any way Sony is going to be stealing any thunder from them.
If affordable, feature packed cameras are your desire then Sony will release another three or four of those before I finish typing this.

MJChristensen wrote:
I wish Panasonic would abandon the built-in, pop-up flash in favor of an articulated EVF.
+1 ! 
I guess you are describing the 0/-20°/-30° tilted high-def EVF of the GX8
which makes this camera the most ergonomic filmmaking tool around :
the tilt gives relief to the neck and the Leica-M position frees the left eye field of view.
 
 

From a youtuber / journalism / film making perspective I think the following features would yield the most IQ progress:
- Global shutter,
- 4k 60p
- 4k 10bit 422, 200Mbit recording
- Full sensor read out downscaled to 4k
- NX1 level of focussing + tracking.
- Auto iso in manual mode
- + 1 stop in DR and iso.
- 5x IBIS would be nice too.
I like the idea of an oversized and/or multi aspect sensor.
A cinema lens set would be cool too.
Great to see so many responses here. I wonder if Panasonic employees actually read along.

A 25mm 1.4 m43 lens is equivalent to a 50mm 2.8 lens on fullframe, both will give the same image and boh are tiny lenses. If you think otherwise I can't/want help you.
 

Dreaming for dreaming we should take into account the revolution in sensor technology
which is at our door step.  Pioneered by Panasonic and Fuji-film four years ago
it is called OPF (organic photo sensor). **
The ida is to separate a very thin continuous light-sensitive  layer
(a compound of carbon, arsenic, and rare earth),
from the silicon pixels which only play as electric charge collectors
and gates to the output ; no more as light sensors.
Panasonic announces a 3 stop increase in DR, twice the sensitivity, global shutter,
and last but not the least sensitivity control (like the ISO choices offered by silver halide films).

After the ISSCC (International Solid-State Circuit Conference)
held in San Francisco Jan 31 - Feb 4 2016, Albert Theuwissen wrote:
" Sanshiro Shishido (Panasonic) presented a paper on the global shutter version
of the organic photo conductor sensor. The top plate of the photo conductor
 is made out of ITO and needs to be biased to larger voltages.
The overall light sensitivity of the organic photo conductor depends strongly
on the exact voltage on the ITO gate.  A lower voltage on the gate
lowers the light sensitivity and actually 0 V on the gate makes the sensor even blind.
 In this way one can create a global shutter functionality to the sensor \..\
(and) has the option to modulate the sensitivity during the periods
the sensor is sensitive by means of adapting the high voltage set to the ITO gate."
 
This is a real ISO modification which can control the charge accumulation
into the silicon pixels to prevent clipping,
There is no longer a need for any kind of neutral density filters, ever !
(note that the so called  ISO sertting in current CMOS sensors only
modify the pixel preamplifier gain but is located much too late in the chain.

I would consider the 'Phase AF', '5 axis IBIS' and this 'Physical Sensitivity Control'
as the 3 must have features signaling a next gen camera from old timers.
Panasonic has an ace in his hand
 
** InVisage with its Quantum sensor is running in the same race.

I wish Panasonic would abandon the built-in, pop-up flash in favor of an articulated EVF.

Ok let me back up. There are a handful of cameras that pump out a decent HD image. I'm a renter so ive tried all of them. There are no cameras under 10k that I would consider buying due to deal breaker issues. The C100 2 comes closest as far as HD image quality is concerned but that camera is still brutally overpriced for what it is. I also like the Canon 1dc, lovely image but even at $7k, it's still overpriced and with no high frame rates and difficult post, it's also not worth buying. Blackmagic is hit or miss. They have a great filmic look but their cameras are notoriously unreliable and I pretty much can't trust them for paid work. Panasonic have backed themselves into a corner with m43 which will always be a disadvantage in the low light department. Nikon has never even spoken to someone who shoots video for a living so their cameras are almost always DOA. The Sony A7s has a stunning sensor and very lovely 1080p but their color science is bogus, I had to turn picture profile off and no slog 2 in order to get decent gradable skin tones but when I did that, there was a 2 stop hit in dynamic range. Since it's still 8bit color, the image falls apart quickly. Basically every camera company is run by morons when it comes to video. Canon literally hate their customers. They will give you the quality you want but they will charge you twice as much as you are willing to spend. Seriously, the c300 2 should cost $7k at most. It's especially frustrating since Samsung are literally sitting on a gold mine of video tech that they have decided to waste on cell phones. Fuji color can't be beat their video functionality almost always sucks and I'm sorry but I'm not seeing the image quality in these samples. The motion cadence is pretty unpleasant and I am seeing aliasing which at this point, is totally inexcusable. Everyone always talks about how many great tools we have at our disposal but I don't see it. I think most sub $10k cameras are garbage when it comes to image quality. I'm slightly hopeful for Panasonics new camera but with Varicam branding, I have a feeling it will be a pricy item. Keep in mind that Panasonic have the GH5 due later in the year so I doubt they would produce a Varicam in the prosumer price range.

They'll stick their crappy F mount on there and kill any chance of the camera being popular with lens heads.  I love to think they'd make a mount with an ffd of 20mm or less and then sell f-mount adaptors to those who want to use nikon glass with electronic contacts.  the short mount would allow metabones to manufacture a suitable speed booster as well as adaptors for almost every lens ever made.  M4/3 and e-mount are where it's at.  Sony even do a e-mount to a-mount adaptor.  copy that and you;re onto a winner.

Metabones stated they can do nothing for the NX-mount. Therefor E-mount wins. Nikon should do something more or less exactly like Sony's E-mount. It will fit legacy too, it will fit APS-C, it will fit their new mirrorless line-up, because that's to me a big win, keeping lens sizes down as they influence compactness more than the body. Forget about NX already!

If I were Nikon, I'd make something like the versatile E-mount and forget about ever having heard of the term 'NX'.
The thing interesting about Samsung is their hardware and processing structure capturing stuff from the sensor, not the mount I'd say.

Franz Kraus addressed at Conference of the International Association of Film and Television Schools (CILECT) in Munich on Nov 27th, that a s16 Amira prototype has been tested. They are apparently in progress to a feasibility study with an aim to supply film schools/educational market, as many schools still having lenses left over from the SR/ST days. Simplified s16 Amira (true S16 Sensor not a crop) sounds very much in the feasibility stage for now, but could end up being an interesting little camera if produced and made available outside the educational market.
http://if.com.au/2015/11/26/article/Arri-reveals-prototype-educational-camera/IQUTSYTINV.html

Kudos to Apple for making it 12mpx since a 16:9 crop makes it 8mpx. No downsampling reduces the load on the CPU and the heat can be managed more easily.
4K on a mobile phone sensor means that the downscaled 1080p will be more than decent, so rejoice! Stop the 4K hate.

So the BMPCC has a 2.88x crop factor compared to full frame. What this means is that you'll have a wider depth of field than you would on APS-C or FF sensors, as well as a narrower field of view when using FF/APS-C glass. This means you have two main options when it comes to your lenses: 

1. You can use a normal/generic speed booster to reduce that crop factor to 2x, which makes FF doable if you're not a huge on focal lengths wider than 40mm, or a BMPCC-specific speedbooster, which reduces the crop factor to 1.67, which makes the sensor effectively just smaller than APS-C. The advantages of this option are that you have a wider assortment of vintage and modern lenses to choose from, get a stop more light (or 1 2/3 with the BMPCC-specific booster), and can give you the look of a larger sensor (which some prefer). The disadvantages are large lenses (which can be unwieldy on the BMPCC), expense (powered speed boosters and BMPCC-specific models are pricey), and no IS/AF on non-electronic lenses (which may or may not matter to you). 

2. Buy native Micro Four Thirds mount lenses. Because they're made with a 2x crop in mind, they offer much wider focal lengths that murder you way less on the crop factor. You can get a Panasonic 12-35 (35-100 FF equiv.) f/2.8 IS and have an amazing all-rounder for only $550 used, or the amazing SLR Magic 10mm t/2.1 for a 29mm FF equiv. that's built like a tank, completely manual, and razor sharp from max aperture. The advantages of this option are IS/AF on Panasonic/Olympus/Sigma lenses, much smaller lenses, cheaper lenses (depending what you buy), and better performance (again, depending--there are exceptions). The downsides are that they won't affect the sensor size/look or give you extra light and can't be used on larger formats if you ever decide to switch.

I lean toward option 2, because I like the option to keep my package small (heh heh), because I can use the same lenses on my Panasonic/Olympus MFT cameras for video and stills, and because there's some incredible glass in the MFT stable that I couldn't bear to part with. 
It's usable. Not great, but usable. I ordered a sun hood for the LCD (like the one recommended on DrewNetwork), which is the cheapest option to improve visibility, but you could also pick up a low-end LCD loupe or external monitor if you're having trouble. Definitely give it a try before you buy any of that stuff though--I've shot a music video and a short doc without any of it and done just fine. 
 
Definitely give it a whirl for editing. I started on Premiere and planned to just color correct in Resolve, but I'm finding the Resolve 12 Beta to be more than enough NLE for me. It's a personal preference thing; you won't know unless you try. 

In terms of color tools, Resolve is the most comprehensive option available. It can look a little intimidating at first, but the tools are deceptively simple. I've had good luck just watching some simple Youtube tutorials and playing around with footage. You'll get the hang of it in no time.

I'm not so sure about that.  I just think they're not willing to be on the cutting edge of video specs, because they can't really devote serious resources and development to it.  However, they can adopt the technology a little bit behind the curve.  They seem about 2.5 years behind.  So, eventually, they'll get there.
Now, if your thing is to have the bestest and coolest video IQ from a consumer stills cam, then you'll always be drawn to those models offering it.
I, however, tend to think that even median video IQ from 2015 cameras looks "good enough" already.  If you're a competent shooter, you can make most cameras work for you.  
Here's an example:  Last week I did a quick documentary style corporate shoot for 20K.  I hired a guy that I know likes to trick out his GH4 and likes to run around with a bunch of grip stuff.  Now, I did that not because I knew he was going to get wonderful footage, (I know his capabilities and that was expected anyway) but I needed him there so the set looked "professional."  And it did.  Big lens, matte box, c-stands, silks, reflectors, dead cats, audio harnesses, etc.  Okay.  So that put the client at ease.  Their money was on display.  Meanwhile, while he was doing all the A-Cam interview stuff and some misc B-roll, I was running around with a little EM5II grabbing shots non-stop.  In the end, over 90% of the b-roll shots in the final edit are from the EM5II.  Final delivery is for the web @720.  Unless you're super-discriminating, you can't tell the difference in the edit between the EM5II footage and the GH4 footage.  As a casual viewer you're just not really going to see it.  
So this is how I view the whole camera IQ debate.  What I can do practically matters.  I think I've come to terms with the fact that many people will always chase the technical holy grail with IQ, but my focus with many of my jobs (and my philosophy on how to approach those jobs) lies elsewhere.
And let's not loose sight of the fact that in 5-7 years we're all going to have robust DR, great low light capability, and 4K.  Sure, there will ALWAYS be superior IQ devices, but even if you have that capability, what are you going to do with it?  I DO get excited to shoot with awesome cameras, love being blown away with great images when I rent pro camera gear, and I know they are an absolute necessity for certain productions.  But not for all.  Not for your cat videos --or cityscape videos set to emo music.  
At a certain point when are we all just arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?  I mean, even this lowly Oly camera has better IQ than the greatest auteurs of the mid 20th century had access to during most of their careers, so I say the tools are great and wonderful, just go use them effectively and you'll be happy.
Finally, as a camera manufacturer, nobody can outdo Fuji when it comes to offering lousy video in their stills cams.  They set the bar so low that it's unacceptable even for me!

Well you can always open a topic about Tarkovsky so we can all start discussing filmmaking. 

I was skeptical of Olys 5-axis.  Then I used it. 
I can do stuff handheld with discipline that looks indistinguishable from a slider or something shot on a tripod. 
Its creative freedom. And it's a tool that allows me to get shots really quick when run'n'gun'in'. 
It's not perfect, but it is very useful for a certain style. 
I do docu style, so it fits.  I don't use it for EVERYTHING, but what I do use it for, it's pretty nice. 
I sure as hell don't think that ANY camera I decide to use makes me in any way more accomplished of a shooter. I'm very camera agnostic.  But I do like Oly's 5-axis feature. It's a fun tool to have.  It's almost like cheating. It allows me to get that good framing easier...
Mind you, if you kinda stink as a shooter an EM5II isn't going to magically make you frame better compositions, but if you have some compositional skill, it'll let you grab those shots in a quick and practical way. 

I've been in Japan for about 11 years now. That doesn't make me an authority on the Japanese camera market or anything but from what I have seen, the average camera enthusiast is shooting Canon or Nikon. I always approach professional camera men and women and ask about how they like video on their D800 or 5DMK3 or whatever and they all look kinda embarrassed and say, I haven't really gotten into video. When I go to the park there are a lot of old men with 1Ds and giant zooms shooting ducks and birds or kids playing with their parents whatever. I get the impression that the major chuck of the domestic market for these companies is probably not looking at the internet for reviews of lists of specs (I know many people are but probably not the majority), nor are they buying these cameras with the intention of doing something new. They are most likely in their 50s and 60s, with full-time positions in a company and nearing retirement and are reading camera magazines that are basically advertisements for these two companies and then going to the big electronics stores and buying them from salesmen who don't know anything about anything. My beef with Japan is that the older people have all the money and are the largest segment of the population so Japanese business and culture will cater more and more to what they want. This probably means less innovation. Japanese manufacturers are finding it harder to compete internationally so some retreat and focus on the domestic market and that means just playing on nostalgia. If they are confident that their domestic marketing campaigns will allow them flex brand power and sell inferior cameras for higher prices than the competition, they will continue to do it and find the logic of your argument incomprehensible. Like all paradigm shifts, people don't really change their beliefs. The older generation just eventually dies off and the new generation is left to choose between two alternatives and usually chooses different than the prior group because they don't have an emotional commitment to the past. I'm also willing to admit that I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about, though.

It's still a $6500 camera with an EVF from the devil's arse

I'd probably think most of the "internet camera nerds" don't bother using lighting, or very little. Whether this comes down to shooting style/hobby/lack of interest... Don't know.
I can be a camera nerd who surfs the net on a daily basis to feed my latest craving. But I also see cameras/footage being critised where proper, good lighting was NOT utilised. How many actually realise that a camera produces superior images with a good set of lights, or a knowledge in how to mould natural light? 
A lot of the "skin tone" footage on the net with the A7s sucks because the operator raised the ISO to 20,000 in locations with weird colours/no colours, and didn't bother to consider light at all. 
Lighting is far more important than cameras. You start to realise that your tool has much better colour, dynamic range, resolution and motion than you thought. Even if you use a flat piece of foil to reflect the light on your subject, every little helps. 
My order of importance for every shoot: 
1. Idea 
2. Subject (actor, location etc)
3. Lighting
4. Lenses
5. Camera
So onto your subject, whatever camera you use, start with lighting first. You will get much much further with your filmmaking and produce much better images this way  
My honest opinion is - those who are serious but don't consider lighting, you might as well not bother! 

As the house is probably burning at night, AND the a7s cost more, I'd of course grab the Sony!

​In the feature film world, all directors and camera operators are adamant : "don't touch our framing
carefully performed on stage".
But  if you are the man of all hats (camera operator / editor / colorist) on a documentary film,
recording these extra pixels can help you reframe or stabilize your images on some occasions.
Whatever the situation, the out-of-frame grayed area is a good alternative
to the standard white or black  lines that in the fire of action your eye no longer sees...
letting you frame onto the full viewing screen.

 

​In the feature film world, all directors and camera operators are adamant : "don't touch our framing
carefully performed on stage".
But  if you are the man of all hats (camera operator / editor / colorist) on a documentary film,
recording these extra pixels can help you reframe or stabilize your images on some occasions.
Whatever the situation, the out-of-frame grayed area is a good alternative
to the standard white or black  lines that in the fire of action your eye no longer sees...
letting you frame onto the full viewing screen.

 

​It's clear that the Ciecio7 Positive Locking ring eliminates the 'micro wigle' between
the bayonnet of the lens and the adapter,
but, how do they eliminate the wigle between their adapter and the camera's spring loaded lens port?
do they screw it permanently on the camera housing??

​this Fairchild LTN sensor is a dream for a camera manufacturer, with its 4608x2592 pixel count,
it scans images from which you can extract  4096x2304  Super35  16x9 images for 4K delivery
while you send to the viewfinder the entire non cropped image displaying the standard +12%
out of frame field of view that all professionnal filmmakers request.
When designing the Aaton Delta Penelope, to clearly differentiate the extra field image
from the recorded one we were showing it in +/- bright b&w as shown in the attached image.
It would be good if a manufacturer could offer that option which better emulates a film camera OVF.

It's a joke alright. Unbelievable that they let it out of the door with so much moire, aliasing, softness. The crop is massive in video mode too, more than E-M1 or GH4.
I'll have more to say in the full review, but right now I am disappointed in Olympus.
Like I said they clearly listened, timecode of all things!
It's a bit like being in a restaurant and your dish arrives with no sauce, so you send it back and they return it with the sauce but no chicken!
They are counting on us upgrading to a 4K E-M1 Mark II obviously but I am giving them a very clearly message. NO MORE OLYMPUS FOR ME! I don't care how good the stabilisation is. They are done.