Beritar

The GH6 was definitely a swing for the fences, although unfortunately not a massive hit like the previous attempts, but it did show that Panasonic were still willing to aim big and put in the time and resources.  I also think that having the new sensor from the GH6 might help with the GH7, and even if they didn't re-use the GH6 sensor in the GH7, the fact they went through the whole exercise of partnering with a provider, designing it, manufacturing it, and putting it out into a new product might mean there are less barriers to them doing it again for the GH7.  When they engaged the sensor manufacturer they might have even signed up for a series of sensors to be delivered over a period, so some sort of incredible GH7 sensor might even be quite a way through the sausage machine already.
The proof is in the pudding, of course, but if the GH6 had failed because they didn't even try to be innovative then it would have put the GH7 in a very different context than what actually did happen.

This is what Cined said:
Personally, I never noticed it that much.

Each time I apply blur to my footage on the S5II, it becomes unatural, some textures look good and some don't. The sharpness is not the only issue, like I said. The S5II/X have more spatial chroma noise reduction, leading to loss of colour detail, like in skin texture and foliage, about a value of 20~25 in Resolve is required to match the S1/S5 chroma detail to S5iiX.

But yes some people are prefectly fine with the internal output of the S5II, especially if they don't crop a lot inside their videos, but to my eyes, the S5II internal recording is really not as good as the S1, S5 and S1H.
I am not even talking about the standard profiles in 4K or C4K, one of the worst image I've seen between every Panasonic cameras I owned (almost all since the GH4), the difference with the S1,S5,S1H is huge, very excessive sharpening and smoothed out details (I think I've posted some videos about the issue).

For those who are interested by the difference of the fine details rendering (internal recording) between the S1 and the S5II in 5,9K.

V-Log, ISO 4000, sharpness and NR at 0, internal recording, 10 bits, same lens, same settings :


The S1 has at least the same level of detail but looks more organic. The S5II on the contrary, has rougher edges. 


Natural, ISO 1250, sharpness and NR at -5, internal recording, 10 bits, same lens, same settings :



This time the difference is much worse with the standard profiles, it looks like smartphone footage, of course there are more details than on smartphone (even with 8K smartphone), but they are really over-sharpened.

On the S5II, I never use 4K and C4K because they are even worse, especially with the standard profiles.
But using the 5,9K/6K or Open Gate mode decrease the IBIS performance, it's very noticeable while walking (of course ambassasors never test the IBIS with these modes).
I really hope the rumored S1II and S1HII will improve the video engine of the S5II.

 

I agree, I always shot 4K 8 bits on my GH4/G80/NX1/GH5/GX9/S5 and I never had serious issues.
I'm forced to use 4K 10 bits on the S5II everytime though, because V-log (while not as good as the first S5) has nicer details rendering than the standard profiles.

8-bit rec709 profiles are much more flexible in post than you might think.  I'm not saying they're as good as an Alexa or whatever, but they're a million miles better than people give them credit for.
Here's a latitude and WB torture test of the GX85, in the standard profile (8-bit rec709) customised to have reduced contrast but normal saturation.  
For each of the below, the left image is the properly exposed reference image, the middle one is the graded image, and the one on the right is the image SOOC.
Exposure latitude test - +3 stops:

Exposure latitude test - +2 stops:

Exposure latitude test - +1 stops:

Exposure latitude test - -1 stops:

Exposure latitude test - -2 stops:

Exposure latitude test - -3 stops:

Exposure latitude test - -4 stops:

Exposure latitude test - warm:

Exposure latitude test - cool:

Exposure latitude test - magenta:

Exposure latitude test - green (as far as it would go!):

Notes on the testing method:
GX85 shot in manual mode on cloudy day Exposure varied by changing lens aperture WB varied by changing colour temp and tint Tools used in Resolve were mostly Lift/Gamma/Gain, saturation, and some had a bit of Shadows/Mids/Highlights Notes on the results:
If it's clipped then it's clipped, there's no getting around that If you've shot a whole sequence in the wrong WB then shoot a test chart replicating the error, spend some time on the correction, then apply to all the shots... a bit of work but worth it to rescue a days shooting If you've shot on auto-exposure / auto-WB and want to correct the small errors then this is easily possible - it won't have gotten it nearly as wrong as what I have shown above Most cameras shooting in rec709 will do funky stuff to colours depending on their luma value as part of the look of the profile, so when you over/under expose and then pull things back the hues and saturation levels will have shifted around in odd ways compared to a normal exposure, but if it's a real shoot then you most likely won't have many dominant hues in the image and you only have to correct the ones that are in the frame and distracting, so the above is far more work than normal shooting would be  The days of needing RAW or even LOG to change exposure or WB in post are gone, and although the rec709 profiles often have lower DR than log profiles, they're much better than you think.
If anyone wants me to post full-sized versions with titles so you can flick back and forth then just let me know.
Happy shooting!

Not so much.
My wife uses Sony cameras, I'm not a fan of them but I like some FE lenses so I use them occasionnaly ...
Otherwise, I only use M43 and Panasonic L mount (I also have my good old NX1 and NX500).

Yes, on M43 it's hard to get the same look than a FF 35mm f1.4 or f1.2.
I have the 35mm GM for that, awesome lens, ultra sharp wide open with nice bokeh, and not so large and heavy. It's one of the best lens I ever used. I would love to put this lens on my Panasonic S cameras ...

Sadly the 20mm f1.7II is still very noisy, but at least the AF-C is not bad on the G9II !

The AF-C is relatively fast on the G9II, it's very surprising :
 

 

The 25mm and 45mm Oly Pro lenses are even heavier than the 50mm and 85mm f1.8 S. But yes both the Oly share similar size and weight.
Technically, you can say they are close to f2.5 for DOF and Bokeh, they are also less sharp wide open than the S 50mm and 85mm Panasonic FF. But their bokeh and rendering are great, and we can't get the same IBIS quality, the same rolling shutter and the 4K 120fps when using the S lenses on the S5II. 
 

Ahah, no, of course it is on the original files, I never pixel peep on converted files.
I don't like the digital look at all like on smartphone (when everything is oversharpened), but I don't like digital processing making the image soft or sharp artificialy either. I sometime need to keep all the fine details for my videos, I don't want they have digital sharpening, I just want the same details as a raw photo without any digital processing. If I really need a soft image looking, I think the 1080P of my GH5 with a bit of un-sharpen is perfect, no need for a 4K or 6K camera.
If I un-sharpen a video file looking like a raw photo, as on the GH5, the result is good, because every details are there. But when I un-sharpen a file like on the GH6, it just doesn't look as good in my opinion, especially in low light, it looks more like if the image is upscaled.

My S5II also has bad processing going on internaly compared to previous S cameras, bad edge sharpening even in V-log, making the fine details less thin, and also chroma noise reduction more or less significant depending on the profile used. Of course, most of the time and depending on your screen, you need to crop in order to see the difference.
Digital processing like the Intelligent Detail Filter on the GH6 can certainly helps with moiré, but nothing come close to a OLPF like on the S1H for the nicest image quality. I even prefer to use my GH5 in low light compared to the GH6 below 1600 ISO, sure the GH6 is cleaner, but something just looks off about fine details rendering. Of course, downscaling the file to 1080P or viewing it on small screen doesn't make a big difference between both cameras. Again, it's really when cropping we can see that the details rendering is not the same.
But it is not so simple, because the colors of the GH6 are really really nice, I just love their new 25MP M43 sensor, it has natural and rich tones in video (and photos of course), nicer than on my S5II IMHO. Last time I loved the colors of a camera as much was with the Samsung NX1.
My G9II has more or less the same colors than the GH6, but on the cooler side, and more magenta overall. Nothing that can't be fixed in post though.

For sure, the 50mm f1.8 S is much smaller with the S5 or S5II. Very sharp lens, almost clinical, with good bokeh at short to medium distance.
But the G9II with the PL 25mm is still nicer to use (smaller and lighter) and has IMHO better character :



And just for fun, a comparison with the little 20mm pancake 😅 :

What about a 50mm 1.8 bargain lens on the S1? @Beritar  That should be much smaller. The Sigma 45mm 2.8 is pretty small but is a relevant amount narrower regarding fov than a 40mm. No real equivalent to the nice 20mm 1.7 in the FF world other than the Voigtlaender 40mm F2 in M-mount or a Konica with a long flange and adapter.
I love the fov coming from a 40mm lens on a FF camera. A native 40mm 2.8 pancake would be sweet, with Af and a clutch for hard stops when in manual focus. The G9 II in S5II body is dwarfed by the gigantic S1.😂 Oly 35RC has a 42.5mm F2.8 lens btw. I loved that lens and focal length and that camera.:)

You can get the Sigma 40mm f1.4 ART in L mount but in terms of it being a pancake…
well it is if you like your pancakes in this sort of quantity.

Always amazed by the size and weight of the 25mm f1.4 (or 20mm f1.7) and 35-100mm f2.8. When I compare them to my 50mm and 70-200mm (f2.8) S Pro, I think I will not sell my M4/3 stuff anytime soon.
 


There are some alternatives to the 25mm PL for full frame, I tried the 45mm f2.8 Sigma for my S1/S5III (very similar for dof, bokeh etc) but I prefer to use the PL, better rolling shutter and stabilization on the G9II.
I really can't see an alternative to the 20mm f1.7 and the 35-100mm f2.8 though.

GH5 III = GH5 II + punsh-in during recording + Pdaf + timecode, for 1099. @IronFilm😊

Yeah, who the hell needs 4K 120fps anyway??? Not me

I still have my good old NX1 and NX500.
Indeed, even at ISO 200, with bad light, details fall apart, very mushy.
Back in 2014/2015 I was really disappointed by this mushy rendering in low light compared to my GH4, I was one of the first to point out  : 
This exactly what the S5II is doing with most picture profiles (internal), of course the S5II has much better low light performance so it's much less worse, but when I crop inside the low light videos of both my S1 and S5II, I can see more or less the same difference, the S1 keeps much better details than my S5II (V-Log is really better but details are still not as good as on the S1, mostly because of weird edge sharpening).

About the rolling shutter, it is really bad in 4K on the NX1, one the worst I've seen, but the image was and is still gorgeous with the right light, especially with the 16-50mm and 50-150mm NX S. Iirc, the RS is close to 30ms.

I also have the NX500 somewhere in my house, but I never really liked the video quality compared to the NX1. In good light the NX1 is full of details, the NX500 much less, probably because of the big crop. Also the NX500 has more difficulty to nail the focus in 4K, and it has no electronic stabilization, which is very handy with the little 30mm and 45mm on the NX1.
I used the hacked firmware of the NX500 allowing the 2,5K mode, the rolling shutter was excellent, below 10ms for sure, but the image quality was not good, there was sometimes weird lines and aliasing.

I wonder if Panasonic would be crazy enough to bring out a GH5 mk3, that is simply identical to the GH5 mk1 / mk2, but with DPAF added! Especially if they could hold the price the same, or even better drop it slightly to fall under the magical US$1K mark. Could be a smash hit then. 
(although, I would dream that they make one more addition to the GH5 mk3: add timecode support! At least like the GH5S has)
The GH7 can get the kitchen sink at it, but let the GH5mk3 carry on all that is great with the GH5, but with PDAF

I don't care about S5II/X on my own behalf as I am not intending to trade it in for any of my stuff I am going to have to sell. I got too much unused equilment, so a complimentary camera instead for my S1H will be cool. At the moment that would still be my S1, which I would sell. A G9 would offer additional features to find out about, especially Dual Gain, Pdaf and punsh-in preview during recording. Wanna test that Towerjazz magic and new colour!:) I have seen lowlight comparisons with the GH5s where it holds onto resolution and colours better than the latter. I just wouldn't buy into mambojambo affected textures. How could they mess up on that. Flagship cameras, at least from Panasonic, should not have unnecessary image nasties like that. If a GH5 (ll) and G9 do better in that regard it is a step back, which is unnatural by the logic of a succeeding model of the product line.
So, Panasonic, do your GH6 and G9II a favour and make them the much better cameras they potentially akready are. Turn off the mambojambo.

Sadly, this is just a stupid nickname 🙃.
About the mambo jambo textures, when using BRAW on the S5II, the image is free from the weird edge sharpening, the image is great, juste like the internal S1 and S5 with their last firmware. So yes, like you I hope they will allow to turn off most of their bad processing, they surely can.

I still have my good old NX1 and NX500.
Indeed, even at ISO 200, with bad light, details fall apart, very mushy.
Back in 2014/2015 I was really disappointed by this mushy rendering in low light compared to my GH4, I was one of the first to point out  : 
This exactly what the S5II is doing with most picture profiles (internal), of course the S5II has much better low light performance so it's much less worse, but when I crop inside the low light videos of both my S1 and S5II, I can see more or less the same difference, the S1 keeps much better details than my S5II (V-Log is really better but details are still not as good as on the S1, mostly because of weird edge sharpening).

About the rolling shutter, it is really bad in 4K on the NX1, one the worst I've seen, but the image was and is still gorgeous with the right light, especially with the 16-50mm and 50-150mm NX S. Iirc, the RS is close to 30ms.

I also have the NX500 somewhere in my house, but I never really liked the video quality compared to the NX1. In good light the NX1 is full of details, the NX500 much less, probably because of the big crop. Also the NX500 has more difficulty to nail the focus in 4K, and it has no electronic stabilization, which is very handy with the little 30mm and 45mm on the NX1.
I used the hacked firmware of the NX500 allowing the 2,5K mode, the rolling shutter was excellent, below 10ms for sure, but the image quality was not good, there was sometimes weird lines and aliasing.

Sadly, this is just a stupid nickname 🙃.
About the mambo jambo textures, when using BRAW on the S5II, the image is free from the weird edge sharpening, the image is great, juste like the internal S1 and S5 with their last firmware. So yes, like you I hope they will allow to turn off most of their bad processing, they surely can.

I just hope that Panasonic allows to turn off the mambo jambo with textures, what @Beritar was describing. Then it would be my S1 replacement and compliment my S1H. I am curious about dual gain colour. I would also love to have more "official" crop modes for S16, 2/3 inch, 16mm and so on, rather than a 2 x digizoom for 2/3" or pixel to pixel , which on the G9II in 4K mode is something around the 16mm format. Btw isn't Beritar a label under which Tokina and Sigma lenses have been sold, just like Vivitar, Soligor, Hanimex, etc? 🙂