Geoff CB

Just watched... These type of PROs ain't used to this level of devices, so they don't even realize Camera2 API exists in order to have sharpness under control:
Pure marketing. Not the best skillful pro to put behind a mobile device like this one is :- )

That really did not look good to me. Pretty scenery sure, but the image itself didn't blow me away. Overly sharpened with a high shutter speed, surprised he didn't use an ND on it. 

That really did not look good to me. Pretty scenery sure, but the image itself didn't blow me away. Overly sharpened with a high shutter speed, surprised he didn't use an ND on it. 

I don't know what's going on here but it's not like they have a cinema line to protect...
Panasonic could have that excuse, but don't use it and just have the somewhat iffy AF issue.
Canon are full of controversy.
Sony have been criticised by only having 12mp for the A7S3 but it looks like when the A74 arrives, now that Sony have improved ergos, menus and colour, they are just going to walk over the whole lot.
And I am no Sony fan but the electronics giant is stomping on the more established camera companies.
It's like they all want to commit financial suicide and close their doors.
Or are we some tiny minority that sees this, but 99% of the rest of the world don't give a shit and just hand over cash to any brand they recognise the name of or the fella in the shop sells them?
I think if the answer to my question above is "no, the 4k 60p when it comes is 8 bit", then I'm on a course to see if the S5 will perform in ALL the roles I'd need it to.
More than a bit pissed off with all the camera companies right now. Every single one cripples in some degree or another everything they are putting out for no apparent reason other than they can. It's just fucking weird! 🙄

yep i was saying this was nikon's last attempt to keep me. HAving said that I'm editing some footage at the mo, and it's lovely, and very easy to work with, but there is too much that is amateurish with these cameras.  If they'd given me full frame 60p I might even have hung around in 8bit. But no 10 bit internal? get futtocky fucked. 
And "planned for february": weasels. THe promised external raw was a mess. Nope, bugger 'em
 

Um yeah. I'm now going to sell all my Nikon gear.
Colossally disappointing, especially have the RAW remain a paid upgrade and no 10-bit. Hell they couldn't even remove the goddamn 30 minute time limit.  The fact this camera has NO VIDEO IMPROVMENT AT LAUNCH is tone deaf idiocy. 
Hell the 4K 60p being added later as a firmware upgrade and not being able to record it externally just feels like a final kick in the teeth.

Possible answer, Dolby paid them. I'm someone who thinks the Dolby Vision workflow is incredible, doing HDR and SDR in single grading pass is witchcraft but their system pulls it off,  only problem with it is it is proprietary and expensive. 

Um yeah. I'm now going to sell all my Nikon gear.
Colossally disappointing, especially have the RAW remain a paid upgrade and no 10-bit. Hell they couldn't even remove the goddamn 30 minute time limit.  The fact this camera has NO VIDEO IMPROVMENT AT LAUNCH is tone deaf idiocy. 
Hell the 4K 60p being added later as a firmware upgrade and not being able to record it externally just feels like a final kick in the teeth.

Possible answer, Dolby paid them. I'm someone who thinks the Dolby Vision workflow is incredible, doing HDR and SDR in single grading pass is witchcraft but their system pulls it off,  only problem with it is it is proprietary and expensive. 

While that is a beautiful video, with a fantastic grade,  I really dislike that these things are labelled "Dolby Vision." Youtube DOES NOT support Dolby Vision, only HLG, which is worse than HDR10 format in terms of image quality. It may have been graded in Dolby Vision but it is not Dolby Vision display on youtube. 

BRAW does not work that way, it has to be calibrated to each camera. 

No, none of these compressed RAW formats are actually RAW, they are compressed raw formats that toss out data. They all need to be designed on a camera by camera basis. 

When grading files in HDR, I can instantly tell when a file is of lower quality. Grading on a 8-bit timeline doesn't really show the difference, but on a 10 or 12-bit HDR timeline on a HDR panel it is night and day. 
So for me for a "Thick" image. is 10-bit 4:2:2 or better with at least 14+ Stops of DR.

BRAW does not work that way, it has to be calibrated to each camera. 

I always think of it as related to compression TBH, AKA how much you can push colour around and have things still look good.

C100 with external recorder for example looked way better than internal, cos the colours didn't go all "thin" and insipid if you pushed it about, 

Trying to white balance adjustments on over-compressed footage results in a sort of messy colour wash. I think of this as "thin", the opposite as "thick"

I think that the "thickness" comes primarily from emulsion's color depth and partially from the highlight compression that you mentioned in another thread, from the forgiving latitude of negative film and from film's texture (grain).
 
Keep in mind that overlaying "grain" screen on a digital image is not the same as the grain that is integral to forming an image on film emulsion.  Grain actually provides the detail and contrast and much of the color depth of an film image.
 
 
Home movies shot on Super8 film often have "thick" looking images, if they haven't faded.
 
You didn't create a 5-bit image nor a "4.5-bit" image, nor did you keep all of the shades within 22.6 shade increments ("4.5-bits") of the 255 increments in the final 8-bit image.
Here are scopes of both the "4.5-bit" image and the 8-bit image:

 

If you had actually mapped the 22.6 tones-per-channel from a "4.5-bit" image into 26.5 of the 255 tones-per-channel 8-bit image, then all of the image's pixels would appear inside 22 vertical lines on the RGB histograms, (with 223 of the histogram lines showing zero pixels).
 
So, even though the histogram of the "4.5-bit" image shows spikes (compared to that of the 8-bit image), the vast majority of the "4.5-bit" image's pixels fall in between the 22.6 tones that would be inherent in an actual "4.5-bit" image.
 
To do this comparison properly, one should probably shoot an actual "4.5-bit" image, process it in a "4.5-bit" pipeline and display it on a "4.5-bit" monitor.
 
By the way, there is an perceptible difference between the 8-bit image and the "4.5-bit" image.

The 1080p 120 is so good I'd be happy with that if they gave me it in 10-bit log.

My a7siii with glasses have arrived 😁

These are thick looking images!
No noise reduction or other processing weirdness.
Super highly saturated shadow areas which many cameras nowadays desaturate to cover chroma noise
Overall huge tonal variation.
And what I guess - proper looking motion.
Something the A7sIII especially is bad with since it's optimized for low light - CFA prioritizing sensitivity over tonality + tons of temporal noise reduction and sharpening. All ending in a sterile and thin looking image.
Worst thing, doing ETTR to avoid smearing and ghosting at middle gray and below hues start shifting around. 😐
 

In my opinion tonality trumps dynamic range.
You can have very high dynamic range but if the tonality and colour is lacking you get the 'thin' digital low-bit-depth look. A lot of smartphones have it in their HDR modes.
Some of the old CCD sensors produce lovely "thick" files but don't have anywhere near 12 stops dynamic range, not even 11 stops.
And yeah, Digital Bolex was a good example.
You can compare it to the claimed '15 stops' Sony S-LOG and it looks much deeper, more exotic, thicker, more filmic, more organic, despite having noisy shadows and clipped highlights.

It is crazy that people live in LA and shoot there with how California is going downhill and all the extra regulations around filming. 

Of course heaps of people want to go to LA as it is Hollywood. But I expect it won't hold that dominant position forever, eventually people will give up on it if LA/Cali keeps on making life too difficult and somewhere else will become the new Mecca to go to. 

Atlanta Georgia perhaps? Who knows. 

Even with the GH5 I put a monopod first. I rarely use IBIS. And do not even mention the new fashion of NOT bringing a tripod/monopod because of IBIS, I see a lot of "kids" doing this.

I own the Z6, I love it but it has usability problems for video. There is significant delay over the external HDMI, and in the viewfinder itself when shooting in 24p and 30p there is bad delay. 

While these seem like small issues, they are a PITA on actually using it for work.

Personally I hope they stick to h264, h265 is a nightmare to edit. They should add higher bit-rate also, same as we have different jpeg setting. High bitrate 10 bit h264 would be a dream for 90+of jobs. When I see what you can already do with their 140 mbit codec, it would be both practical and lighter weight.  

I really hope Nikon does not let me down here. If this camera doesn't come with N-log or 10-bit internal (At 30p, don't even need 60p) I'm probably moving away from Nikon. I'm not staying with a company that clearly will never be ahead of the video curve, plus all my Nikon lenses can be adopted to Sony.