jax_rox

Could it be that finally, RED and BM are both busy with actually manufacturing their cameras? :D

All the RED cameras work this way (except RED One). There's a cable that attaches to the DC-IN port, with the other end being able to terminate in a V-mount, AB-mount, or I guess whatever you can make..
It's a solution that can be used for just about any camera that has a DC-in port

Haha, a strip mall. Maybe the pizza place is branching out into cinema cameras?
I guess it could be a mailbox at the UPS store...

Your point was that 'ProRes is defunct for the majority of the market'.
Firstly, you're assuming that the 'majority' of the market are running Windows 10+, which logic would attest to that not being true.
Secondly, you assume that all of those people, including those running business based around support for ProRes, will immediately uninstall and tell their clients 'bad luck, go somewhere else,' or sucking up the inefficiencies in transcoding; instead of just avoiding malicious files. Again, logic would assume that won't happen.
Thirdly, it ignores all the major camera systems that shoot to ProRes. Some exclusively to ProRes. Surely basic logic assumes that if major camera systems continue to shoot into ProRes at least into the near future, it cannot be defunct.
It's a sensationalist claim with little basis in the reality of the situation, and instead of accepting that it was a little OTT, you've defended your claim.
Makes no difference to me what you use. But I'll continue using ProRes, and you can keep telling me it's defunct if you like? 

I kinda agree, but then Kickstarter always has pitch videos, specs etc. 
A Kickstarter that came out and said 'we're making a cinema camera' and had perks of $500 selectable between HD and 4k isn't going anywhere. Even a Kickstarter that had a story about the company and the people and why they wanted to make a new camera and what they felt was needed and blah blah blah would still go somewhere, even without specs.
One page saying 'CRAFT cinema camera: Coming soon. $500 down'
That Kickstarter campaign ain't gettin off the ground.

For a laugh, i'll break down this email from a salesman's/ executive producer's point of view.
"Greetings!
- denotes all times of day and suggests something festive is entailed.
Yes, we actually exist and have a voice.
- you don't know who we are but you did at some point, but you have forgotten.

We are incredibly grateful and humbled by all the support.
- OK, even if you don't remember us, everyone else does. (Classic 'humblebrag').
And because of that, we are only sharing the following email to you—our early adopter email list.
- FYI, you are special and unique and part of a private club who got in first. Aren't you lucky?

We have looked forward to sending this email for months. You should know that we will not publish this anywhere else. That means you are the first to know.
- you owe us your attention because we have invested a lot of time on this product exclusively for your benefit, and you have such a unique opportunity here because we haven't told the world about it yet because you are our favorite person. When we tell everyone, we can't make any promises on your VIP status.
I bet many of you have wondered, “What’s the deal with Craft?" There has been an outpouring of interest for Craft from all over the world and from all walks of life—from Hollywood, indies, corporate marketing departments, agencies, and amateurs. They have reached out by the thousands trying to figure out what we are working on.
- (more humblebrag) My lord, have you been missing out!
For over a year, we have been developing the Craft Camera—a new system that we believe will help users tell better stories.
- we have developed a system to make you a creative genius, you are a craftsman and we are called Craft, geddit?
On April 18th around 12pm EST, we will announce Craft Camera on craftcamera.com. This announcement will include initial information, a first glimpse of the Craft Camera, and we will start taking initial reservations.
- Sshhh, listen, here are some hard facts. We are committing to a time and place for one time only. We will blow you away with a few seconds of footage and allow you to give us your credit card details, BUT only if you are on time and in the right place.
Since Craft Camera is still in development, we won’t be releasing every single detail because we hope to get feedback from reservation holders before we publish final details.
- in case you aren't impressed, don't worry, you haven't been given all the information and glimpses yet, be patient and get in line anyways. We will figure this spec stuff out eventually once we receive enough complaints to warrant changes.
A reservation will require a $500 deposit, your name, email, and phone number. Reservations will only be available on craftcamea.com and will be 100% refundable. Your deposit will be deducted from the total price once you place an order at a later date.
- (classic close) Absolutely no risk involved. But wait there's more...

As a reservation holder, you will also receive a 10% discount off your final order along with some additional perks like first looks, priority reservations on future products and a few other surprises.
- (classic time sensitive bonuses)
Please note we are offering a limited number of reservations which is why we wanted you to know about this first. This means when we hit our limit we will stop taking reservations. No exceptions. The reservations are first come first serve and when the cameras ship, we will do so in the order that the reservation was placed. 
- remember, this deal is exclusive to you and time sensitive. This is urgent!
The Craft Camera comes in 2 models. There are 4K and HD models with a price range between $699 and $2899 depending on the configuration. Initial units will ship late 2016.
- (actual information, vague, but actual information). Comforting because facts make you feel good, right? But not to many or you will commit from informed deliberation rather than impulse, which is not cool for us.
I will leave you with this—we believe there is a huge need for Craft Camera. We believe it is a revolutionary product that will give production alums a great tool to do things they couldn’t do before while opening up storytelling through motion pictures to a whole new generation.
- (rehash of making you a creative genius theme) You will have an advantage amongst your peers. You will be Spielberg, or maybe Jim Jarmusch... at the very least.
With that said, we understand Craft Camera might not be for you and...we are fine with that! We will still treat you with respect and we hope the same from you.
- seriously, no pressure.
I am truly humbled by all the support, and I hope you become a part of the Craft family.
- (humblebrag,) we have heritage and will be around forever.
Keep telling beautiful stories.
- we are on your side, you artist you *pinches cheek*. Monies? What's that?
Scott Brag(g)
- Mr. S. Humble...

Founder of Craft Digital Systems Inc. "
- the absolute boss and the ducks nuts.
 
That was fun (for me). Having sold stuff from Kirby vacuum cleaners to tvc airtime, its a trip down memory lane. I wouldn't touch this kit with a ten foot pole. A bit too sleazy for me.
If it's a young company then I would ditch the bullet-benefit-close-bonus approach and just talk about the things you are trying to solve for your target demographic. Visuals, ergonomics, mobility, compatibility... etc. (even if its just your intentions, with no hard specs to announce)

Sometimes I wonder if Canon really assesses the market before spending time and money on a new product...
They appear to be banking too much on their lens mount. You can basically buy an FS5 with the 18-105 f4 powerzoom lens for about the price of this lens. 
I just don't really know where it will sit in the market. The range is covered by both the Fuji Cabrio, and also their own 17-120, so it doesn't make a great deal of rental sense. Price-wise has already been mentioned.
It's like more and more they seem to be happy to be playing in niche spaces. As with the XC10, I'm sure this will be a totally fine product. But is it much more than something that fills a small niche? Are Canon happy to be playing in small niches?

I believe so too. It's reminiscent of RED (kinda).
It just feels wrong to ask for money first, or I guess advertise the cost, before really announcing anything other than that it's a camera and there'll be an HD and 4k version.
The pricing is pretty damn cheap, but who knows? It could have an EF mount, a PL mount, it could have an obscure mount we've never heard of. It could be raw, it could be a 2/3" sensor, it could be anything.
Advertising the price first just feels wrong, and feels kinda shady. But we'll see Monday I guess! Will they be at NAB?

Yes - very useful. Just depends on how it captures. Can I use different lenses on it? Or am I stuck with one? What size is the 755MP raw sensor? The weight and size could prove problematic for rigging..
And then - do you have to select your aperture, focus point and focal length for each shot? Because if so, you're not really saving any time anyway. Instead of spending time getting a perfect key, you're spending that time selecting focus points, apertures, etc.
Quite apart from the fact that Lytro has traditionally over-hyped, and then under-delivered (though I'm happy to be proved wrong).
If you could incorporate the 3d-space technology into a more traditional cinema camera... That is what I'd be interested in.
Funny though, I was saying just last week to a mate of mine that the future of cameras would just be a box that captures the entire scene in 3D space, and in post you select your focus points, focal length, aperture, colour etc. etc.
I didn't think we'd be a week away from a product announcement  

Yes - very useful. Just depends on how it captures. Can I use different lenses on it? Or am I stuck with one? What size is the 755MP raw sensor? The weight and size could prove problematic for rigging..
And then - do you have to select your aperture, focus point and focal length for each shot? Because if so, you're not really saving any time anyway. Instead of spending time getting a perfect key, you're spending that time selecting focus points, apertures, etc.
Quite apart from the fact that Lytro has traditionally over-hyped, and then under-delivered (though I'm happy to be proved wrong).
If you could incorporate the 3d-space technology into a more traditional cinema camera... That is what I'd be interested in.
Funny though, I was saying just last week to a mate of mine that the future of cameras would just be a box that captures the entire scene in 3D space, and in post you select your focus points, focal length, aperture, colour etc. etc.
I didn't think we'd be a week away from a product announcement  

Yeah, because Canon cameras work really well attempting to autofocus Nikon lenses....
Again, not all that long ago it was blasphemy to even suggest one would use autofocus when shooting video. Now, Canon having better AF is a major plus point for Canon...
I just don't get it...

The simple fact that this shot has been graded introduces a factor that is totally independent of the camera itself. I think the problem is people were so damn keen for Slog and never learned how to properly grade things.
I recently saw a commercial shot on an FS7 and was surprised it wasn't shot on an Alexa. The F3 was, for a time, considered a 'mini-Alexa' and has very similar colours to that which you can get out of an A7s.
If you've been a Canon shooter for a number of years, you may find it more difficult to get the colours where you want, but the same goes for anyone switching manufacturer. Every manufacturer has different colours and different colour science. I can't think of one manufacturer that has objectively bad colours, it's just that some people are used to one or another, and when the Sony footage they've spent 2 months working with takes a bit longer to get where they want it to than the Canon footage that they'd been working with for 5+ years, it's the camera's fault.
You may find the Sony a bit more difficult to get where you want it to be, but that doesn't mean that it's the camera that's bad, or faulty.
Also, how can you possibly take at face value the grading attempts of an amateur colourist? I wouldn't expect an amateur colourist to get amazing looking results out of anything, let alone base a purchase decision based on their results. The 'ungraded' versions of those images look significantly better.
 

A) It's unlikely as hell
B) Sony already made a 'mini-Alexa' with the F3.
Sony tried and failed with proprietary media in consumer/prosumer cameras. A number of times. There's a reason there's no more cameras on the market that only take MemoryStick cards anymore. 
I mean, who knows really with the Sony con/pro-sumer digital camera division - they're renegades. I just can't see them taking the gamble on this one.. 
And if, for some reason, they decided to - you'd be looking at a ~$4-5k body, plus the extravagant cost of the XQD media. At which point, why not buy an FS5?

It's super trendy at the moment to bash, or be 'disappointed with' Sony colour, but it's really not an issue.

It's personal preference. Some people live and die by their RED. Others Alexa. Others again Varicam. Still others F55. Some love the C300. Or C100. Or 5D. Or A7s. Or a GH4
The smart people do their own research, decide what they like best and use it. There's no such thing as an objectively best camera. I like my A7s and my F3 for day-to-day photo/video low budget stuff.
When I have a budget, I'll rent an Alexa. Or a RED. Or an F55. Depends on the budget, depends on the project, depends on the needs of the script.
You can spend all day arguing about which camera is better at this or that, but at the end of the day it comes down to what you like the most, and what helps get you the best images possible.
I hated what I saw of the F5 and F55 when they came out. Now that I've used them, I appreciate them for the tools they are. You can get great things out of both of those camras. It's just that the original footage I saw didn't have someone behind the camera getting great images.
Conversely, I liked what I saw of the Blackmagic cams when they were announced/released. Then I used them a couple times and determined that I hated them. 
Use what works for you
People who buy purely on resolution are simply following marketing gimmicks. Even then, if money were no object they'd go for the one with the 'richest blacks', 'most vivid colour' etc.

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Resolution's not everything. You can't tell me my iPhone gives me better images than an Alexa because it's 4k and an Alexa's not. Majority of cinema is still projected at 2k. Netflix caused controversy by specifying that all new original material must be 4k. Many people are up in arms because technical 4k resolution doesn't actually mean a picture is any good - and actually having 4096 pixels doesn't mean you actually have '4k resolution'. As many will attest to Canon not having 1080p resolution, despite the video files having that many pixels, the same is true for 4k. That's why the Alexa can scale up to 4k so well, but you're better off scaling down a 5k-6k RED Epic, because if you shoot at 4k it'll be just a tad soft..

Man, I totally disagree. A good Cinematographer/shooter/DP/whatever you want to call them can make an ordinary shot look nice. A nice camera can help them, sure, but it's the guy behind the camera at the end of the day.
I've seen some absolute sh*t out of Alexas, REDs, F55s, C300s etc. I've seen horrendously noisy RED and Alexa footage. I've seen Alexas exposed incorrectly so as to massively reduce its dynamic range. I've seen people suffer from IR contamination because they don't know what they're doing. 
I watched footage from a very seasoned DP when the RED Dragon came out - and was amazed at how noisy the red channel was. He hadn't used the camera before, and wasn't aware that the red channel was going to get that noisy, so couldn't compensate. In the grade, they de-noised it. But you're talking about a RED Dragon being operated by a seasoned DP and there was still this ugly red noise.
I've also seen some amazing stuff out of all of those cameras. I've seen noiseless RED footage and Alexa footage, after a bit of post-processing, and careful exposure.
I've had the simple fact that it's not the camera, it's the person re-enforced so many times through my own experiences, and I think a lot of the time, people would be better off learning more about exposure, lighting, lighting ratios, metering etc. etc. than trying to find which new camera will finally make their footage look like a Hollywood movie..
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The 80D is not great for video, but it will probably be popular in the market it's aimed at. I think Canon knows 'serious hobbyists' are a market that have already moved off Canon - and who knows, maybe they haven't seen a huge effective decrease in sales for this particular series.
I do think there's merit in comparing similarly priced cameras, especially for video - as this forum is tailored to that specific market, and it is pertinent to point out Canon's 'failings' (for lack of a better term - market choices could be another). 
But that doesn't mean the 80D can't be a capable camera in the right hands. Get informed and make an informed decision. A different camera is probably going to give you better quality, but hey - if you want to deal with some of the issues outlined here, that's your prerogative. No camera is perfect, so you'll always have your own preferences and compromises. If you need that Dual Pixel AF, and need AF with your Canon lenses, and you can't spend heaps of money... maybe it's the camera for you

Imagine the resolution on the film grain
Seriously, I love film and will defend it as much as possible... But you can't say 35mm is 4-6k, S16 is 2-4K and S8mm is HD....
And then turn around and say you can get 4K out of Super 8.
With the new 8k cams coming out, Kodak will soon be saying that 35mm gives you 10k!
I'll concede that resolution on film doesn't really work the same way as a digital sensor, but you'll really just be getting finer detail on the grain - which sure, can give you the appearance of extra resolution..

I honestly thought that was the point of this forum? I've tried to make similar points so many times but figure that's just what this forums all about..

Rokinon Xeen's are the most affordable PL 35mm lenses I can think of on the market.
if you're talking S16, there's a lot of affordable options - however 35mm coverage PL lenses, you'll struggle to find much that's of any decent quality for <$2500+ per lens. 
The Zeiss CP2s are, honestly, affordable PL lenses despite being $5k/lens
You might get lucky on an eBay deal, but you're still looking at a few thousands..
Some of the older RED zooms and Sony primes you might find a bit cheaper, but their build quality leaves a lot to be desired (there's a reason they were quickly discontinued).

Until you encounter that magic smear  

This. Best bang-for-buck on the market right now. 
Alternately, spend a bit more and get a used RED One, but it will be much more frustrating than an F3.
Plenty of movies and television have been shot on F3. Plenty more feature films and television have used the F3 as an A-cam versus the BMCC. 
Unless you desperately want 4k or something..

This is internal XDCam as well - not shot by me, but I think demonstrates really well what you can get out of an F3 (watch in HD) - and that's even without going through an external recorder
https://vimeo.com/16937523
 

This. Best bang-for-buck on the market right now. 
Alternately, spend a bit more and get a used RED One, but it will be much more frustrating than an F3.
Plenty of movies and television have been shot on F3. Plenty more feature films and television have used the F3 as an A-cam versus the BMCC. 
Unless you desperately want 4k or something..

This. Best bang-for-buck on the market right now. 
Alternately, spend a bit more and get a used RED One, but it will be much more frustrating than an F3.
Plenty of movies and television have been shot on F3. Plenty more feature films and television have used the F3 as an A-cam versus the BMCC. 
Unless you desperately want 4k or something..

NAB 2016 will be all about 360VR I reckon.

Someone may come out with a 360 camera to rival the OZO at a significantly cheaper price...