Jonesy Jones

I thinks it’s sweet, if it delivers, which this guy seems to have a good history. 

Should be able to put old Nikons on that baby too right?

13 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

Good on BMD for pushing the envelope but personally I think this sensor is kinda waisted in this body and with this mount.

For your needs..... at this time.... maybe.

However for most it may be perfect.

6K braw is awesome for many, especially for those who shoot and edit their own projects.

For many others, delivering 4K prores is standard. The 6K prores files would be enormous. (Though you could in fact shoot 6K braw and convert to 6K prores if you really need 6K prores.)

However, for the few who would want 6K prores straight out of camera (though I can't imagine why) the good news is that BM initially did not offer 4.6K prores for the ursa mini. It was added later. They may in fact add 6K prores later for this camera too. But again, the 6K prores files are huge. I would say most post production folks would prefer the 4K prores anywho. braw, or other compressed raw files or codecs, are the way to go for these larger resolutions.

For comparison, Q5 braw in 6K averages at about 95 MB/s. Prores HQ in 4K is 118 MB/s. 

4 hours ago, kye said:

I know you were quoting numbers from elsewhere, but does this make sense to you?  I would have thought that 6K 16:9 and 6K 2.4:1 would be the same number of pixels across and therefore the same overall amount of zoom, which I thought crop factor was equivalent to.

Another question - do we talk about crop factor being less when an anamorphic lens is used?  In that sense, after the de-squeeze the sensor is effectively wider than it is physically, giving a crop factor of 0.75 or less!

When we talk crop factor, what we are all really wanting to know is FOV. What is X lens going to “see” on Y camera/sensor.

One complicator is that there is both a horizontal and vertical FOV. So in the case of the full 6K 16:9 vs the 6K 2.4:1, the horizontal fov remains the same but the vertical fov is less in 2.4:1.

The reason why the crop factor is considered smaller is because they use the diagonal measurement from corner to corner, which is slightly more in 16:9 than 2.4:1, even though the horizontal fov remains identical.

Now, anamorphic adds another complicator altogether. It stretches the horizontal fov but leaves the vertical the same. The math for this is relatively simple, but since I don’t do it all the time it melts my aging brain. 

Now again, the root of all this crop factor talk is, fov... what will this lens/camera combo deliver. The reason we use crop factor is because it is always good to have a standard, a canon if you will, to compare apples to apples. 

In our case we use FF 35mm as the standard, and derive a crop factor from there. Even though I’m all for this since I’ve been doing it for years, it is odd since the standard for cinematographers for decades was s35, not FF 35mm or vista vision or whatevs. But clearly we are moving in the direction of FF so I guess it worked out.

BOTTOMLINE

I would only pay attention to the horizontal fov numbers/crop since this is what everyone is intuitively looking at anyway. (And then just assume the vertical fov will be relative to the aspect ratio.)

Here’s the simple math for a few popular cams: (btw, the width of FF is 36mm)

P6K width is 23.10. So 36/23.1 = 1.558 (can we call it 1.56?)

P4K width is 18.96 so 36/18.96 = 1.89

URSA Mini Pro width is 25.34, so 36/25.34 = 1.42

Alexa Mini width is 23.8, so 36/23.8 = 1.51

XT3 - 23.5, 36/23.5 = 1.53

GH5 17.3, 36/17.3 = 2.08

For anamorphic I would first calculate the width based on the pixels. So P6K uses 3728 res for anamorphic. This is about 60.68% of the sensor so we’ll call it 14.02mm. Then you have to multiply by the anamorphic ratio you’re using - 2.0 or 1.3 for this cam. So 28.04 and 18.23 respectively. Therefore 

P6K anamorphic horizontal fov crop factors are

In 2.0, 36/28.04 = 1.28

In 1.3, 36/18.23 = 1.97

2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

B. For sure.

Does this mean you have used this IS with video work? Please share.

So my quest is to be able to shoot with one lens. Perhaps a few shots here and there will need something else, but I’m looking to keep one lens on the camera 98% of the time. Changing lens is just too time consuming.

With that said my 18-35 may still be a winner, but I am now gravitating toward the Canon 16-35 f4. Reasons are as follows:

1. I like having a wider option. The 16 end gives me closer to 25ish. 

B. The 16-35 has IS. Anyone tried this lens with video work?

Lastly, I don’t necessarily mind the drop in speed, though it’s pretty significant. I typically shoot closer to f4 anyway. 

I don’t know. I’m back and forth. It’s really more about speed vs IS.

i won’t have this camera for quite a while so I have plenty of time to figure it out.

2 minutes ago, mercer said:

So, with all of the P6K hype, I missed what the P4K updates are. It seems there is an Anamorphic Mode and a 4K S16 Crop Mode? Anything else?

Yes. There’s a new “Do the work” mode, where you grab your camera and go shoot something. I haven’t tried it yet but eventually I will, once I get the right lens.

Plus lenses for s16 could be more affordable or you get more for your money. You may be able to pick up an old cinematic zoom for less than a couple k.

1 hour ago, nathlas said:

 

Even though the video looks gorgeous here, YouTube seems to add a “Suck” filter to everything uploaded. The Vimeo version, that I can only find on their site here, looks so much better. Almost 2 different videos.

I changed my mind. The Angenieux EZ2 15-40 T2 is my preferred lens for this cam. ?

But seriously how awesome would that be. FF 23-60 equiv. T2. Size and weight are the only drawbacks. Well and price.

Tamron 15-30 could be nice too. Rear nd inserts. 4.5 stops of stabilization.

Just watched all the sample vids of the P6K on BM’s website again and I am truly impressed. I didn’t think I’d care about 6K or S35, and maybe I don’t, but whatever is going on with that image is gorgeous. Oddly, 6K doesn’t look clinically sharp. It just looks right. Perhaps the larger sensor is helping. I have no idea. The color. The feels. Perfect.

I’m thinking Tokina 11-20 and the 18-35. I don’t shoot much on the long end so that gives me wide to portrait.

Btw, does anyone know the exact crop factor? 

Also, after seeing the footage it looks very very nice.

8 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

confessed aspring rapist, a criminal and a diagnosed compulsive liar

Please provide evidence for any of this. Or not. I don’t care because at this point all you’ll share is fake news vitriol. What leftists have decided they can do is pick a position, scream it as loud as they can until they and everyone around them believe it’s true. If they want to punch you. Well they say it’s ok to punch Nazis. Then label you a Nazi. Then punch you. 

Regarding “confessed aspiring rapist” I assume you’re referring to his pu$$y comment. Which anyone with half a brain knows was said and meant as an exaggeration. Like “I’m going to kick his ass.” But I’ve never seen anyone actually kick someone in the ass. Fake news.

Regarding “criminal”. No obstruction. No collusion. Fake news.

Regarding “diagnosed compulsive liar” I haven’t heard this one. I mean I’m sure he lies or has lied. I would never attempt to defend this. But Hillary anyone? Fake news.

2 hours ago, midloch said:

You are right, I graded it like film but promos are more artificial so I changed it.

I think that now it looks like it could match the clients needs but I still think that his grade is too orange and too saturated what do you think (my grade is the upper pic):

 

 

I wouldn’t want to judge until I saw in the context of moving images. But based only on those screenshots I’d probably still meet them halfway with more saturation. Maybe not half but closer.

At the end of the day, what does it matter to you? They’re paying for it. If they want fake tan skin, give it to them. Perhaps you could respectfully share your concerns, but if they want what they want, gladly give it to them.

You can always create a version for your reel colored exactly the way you like it.

40 minutes ago, thephoenix said:

good thing is the 6k as a isb_c port to charge / power it

actually they do have some

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/workflow?fbclid=IwAR0sgY7iPmAG3SHMnW4eAGXaRgwplf-ghSxSc5KvzvwecALbYBfvVEXJNN0

I hadn’t seen that. Those are really nice. The wedding one was stunning.

Gorgeous image. Looks like color science right ooc is super nice. I’d still like @Sage to put his touch on it but it is beautiful nonetheless.

This is a promo. Not a film.

More than not commercial stuff is going to be more saturated and brighter than you’d prefer. 

That said the first one is too much. 

If I were you I would crush my ego and say, “Oh. That’s great. I totally see what you want here. You’re definitely going in the right direction. However, there are a couple shots where it may be too much. Now that I know exactly what you want, would you mind if we dial those few shots back a touch. I think we’ll end up with exactly what you’re looking for and appeal to a wider range of preferences.”

3 hours ago, mercer said:

As a side note, Metabones must be pissed off tonight. 

Maybe, but I’m not sure they have too much to worry about. $2500 is waaay different than $1300. Personally, without seeing footage, I’d still choose the P4K, and that’s not even based on price. I just like m43. 6K means more data. Def faster cards. And then there’s the xtra $1200. 

Maybe my mind will change once I see footage, but I’m thrilled with the P4K still.

1 minute ago, Emanuel said:

Maybe because of sensor side supply they are unable to show any footage so far? If so, how can they announce stock for now? All this is rather confusing to me... : -)

 

I agree. 

“Here is the camera. Here are the specs. Here is the price. You can buy now. But no sample footage.”

Strange.

3 hours ago, Emanuel said:

the orange man

Not that I’m a triggered snowflake, but the double standard is too frustrating to stay silent on.

I get that many here hate Trump. This is ok. Freedom of thought and speech is healthy. So in that sense, fire away. But check this out...

I couldn’t stand Obama. Still can’t. But imagine if I called him “the brown man”. 

Triggered much? See my point?

Even though I’m ALL for freedom of speech, I’m also pro civility. Be respectful. I would never use the above phrase because I know there are various opinions and various sensitivities. It’s disrespectful. So I apply the golden rule and play it safe in my words so that we can dialogue and still remain civil. 

Otherwise a 5 page thread on a new camera has turned into a political thing and...

You are correct that BM traditionally uses NAB for major hardware announcements, however BM actually announced the first URSA mini Pro a month before NAB. 

Seeing as its roughly a month before IBC it’s possible a newer pro version of the P4K could be announced. But I don’t think so. When they announced the first UMPro they first teased with a dark image of the new cam. 

So I’m guessing just firmware updates to the P4K. But here’s to hoping for a surprise.

All of those are very nice, but that last one is perty. Really like the natural film like colors.

2 Timothy 3:1-4 (ESV) 1 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,

For many, the situation our world finds itself in is not a surprise. Still sad though. 

Jesus is the answer my friends. 

John 16:33 (ESV) I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world."

By the way @Andrew Reid, this is the second time in a week I’ve heard about this book, which is interesting for a book over 30 years old. I think I’m going to take the plunge.

5 hours ago, mercer said:

Put a Moment Anamorphic on that bitch and go shoot a film.

What is a moment anamorphic? I haven’t heard about this.

Shot with my iPad mini last night. No pp.

4 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

A codec is a codec. Job of a codec is to encode (hence the name) an image. Compression is a form of encoding an image. No need to separate the terms.

H.265 is a codec, simple as that. Not helpful to say it's not a video camera codec when it's used in video cameras. It has hardware acceleration on a GPU. That doesn't make it exclusively a computer GPU codec. Stop reading what ever you have been doing, because it's a load of twaddle.

My understanding was that codec was a derivative of “COmpression DECompression”. So the video signal needs to be compressed and then decompressed.

It is also my understanding that some codecs are compressed/decompressed in a way that is more suitable for cameras and editors. And some are more suitable for video players. The trade off being that the smaller files that video players handle more easily are more taxing to compress for cameras and more taxing for an editor to decompress and edit on the fly.

I only have this device, but I can’t see it at all.