rndmtsk

As mainly a stills guy so far, I've found this too...

When the BMPCC was new and I posted test footage I often got asked about the look I got.
They used the same lens, same film convert but didn't get as "nice", "sharp" or "filmic" results. The reason was that I always used the levels tools to slightly crush the shadows and blow some highlights.
People, and Im talking about real non nerd people, still like contrast.

Ohhh, that's bad.
Nvm, will be fixed in the Vimeo version...

Yh, that was Mount Bonnell in Austin.
Went there at 5:30AM lol.
Since cinematic is quite different from oversharpened/denoised and realistic colors but skintones with red channel clipping (yellowish highlights) anyway...

This camera takes SDXC, and let's get real for a minute: raw is wholly unnecessary for 98% of the camera's target market. 
The Varicam LT may be 'only' a few thousand more - but Starr factoring P2 cards and the price jumps drastically. And since when does the LT do raw internally..? 
The FS7 doesn't even have a proper EVF. Stick a loupe on the LCD and voila - you've got the same solution as the FS7. 
You know the URSA Mini also doesn't come with an EVF? And really, the 'back of the body' EVFs on the C series and FS5 are next to useless.
But sure, feel free to denigrate a camera based on the cost of wholly unnecessary accessories

Boy do people like to complain. A camera is announced two days ago with a feature and you expect every other camera to have it? We're also talking different recording media than the C200 and Blackmagic. Different ecosystems can support different things. It seems like they're trying to push as much into this ecosystem as possible, while keeping the "real" costs of a full kit as manageable as possible. And everyone's losing it over the internal raw of C200, yet the reality is that 98% of the time that raw is used will be in a controlled environment where external monitors are the norm and an external recorder isn't a big deal. And if you start factoring in the difference in SSD costs vs cfast... well, cost-wise the playing field starts to even. The weirder thing would be building a small camera that's perfect for doc and indy uses, shoving raw internal into it, an old ass 8 bit codec, and nothing in between... and no way to get non-raw 10bit... even from the output...

Your obsession with RAW has very little basis in how 95% of people are going to use this camera... no production companies I know will touch RAW, but the mid tier ones do want a decent 4k 10 bit file (If the Canon c200 had 4k 10 bit I would be seriously considering that too). They are both great sounding cameras but are aiming at different folk with different needs - no need to keep trying to think of ways it's not as good as your beloved Canon...
And until they actually announce the actual price we don't know for definite how much the EVA is. It was mentioned in another thread that  Panasonic said the hvx200 was going to be under $10k when 1st announced and it came in at $6k...granted that is an extreme example but let's just wait and see. Am excited for both cameras, they both have their strengths and weaknesses

Boy do people like to complain. A camera is announced two days ago with a feature and you expect every other camera to have it? We're also talking different recording media than the C200 and Blackmagic. Different ecosystems can support different things. It seems like they're trying to push as much into this ecosystem as possible, while keeping the "real" costs of a full kit as manageable as possible. And everyone's losing it over the internal raw of C200, yet the reality is that 98% of the time that raw is used will be in a controlled environment where external monitors are the norm and an external recorder isn't a big deal. And if you start factoring in the difference in SSD costs vs cfast... well, cost-wise the playing field starts to even. The weirder thing would be building a small camera that's perfect for doc and indy uses, shoving raw internal into it, an old ass 8 bit codec, and nothing in between... and no way to get non-raw 10bit... even from the output...

Boy do people like to complain. A camera is announced two days ago with a feature and you expect every other camera to have it? We're also talking different recording media than the C200 and Blackmagic. Different ecosystems can support different things. It seems like they're trying to push as much into this ecosystem as possible, while keeping the "real" costs of a full kit as manageable as possible. And everyone's losing it over the internal raw of C200, yet the reality is that 98% of the time that raw is used will be in a controlled environment where external monitors are the norm and an external recorder isn't a big deal. And if you start factoring in the difference in SSD costs vs cfast... well, cost-wise the playing field starts to even. The weirder thing would be building a small camera that's perfect for doc and indy uses, shoving raw internal into it, an old ass 8 bit codec, and nothing in between... and no way to get non-raw 10bit... even from the output...

Boy do people like to complain. A camera is announced two days ago with a feature and you expect every other camera to have it? We're also talking different recording media than the C200 and Blackmagic. Different ecosystems can support different things. It seems like they're trying to push as much into this ecosystem as possible, while keeping the "real" costs of a full kit as manageable as possible. And everyone's losing it over the internal raw of C200, yet the reality is that 98% of the time that raw is used will be in a controlled environment where external monitors are the norm and an external recorder isn't a big deal. And if you start factoring in the difference in SSD costs vs cfast... well, cost-wise the playing field starts to even. The weirder thing would be building a small camera that's perfect for doc and indy uses, shoving raw internal into it, an old ass 8 bit codec, and nothing in between... and no way to get non-raw 10bit... even from the output...

tagged/me ????

Want. This might be my next camera but I'm spending way too much money on food and beer. :/

If I were still shooting, I would probably buy what my clients wanted me to buy. If I started getting asked for 4k, I'd buy a 4k camera. Otherwise, I wouldn't. And I'd shoot in whatever the lowest spec'd format they'd accept is.
As a hobbyist, I would just buy whatever I wanted and not care about what other people are doing with their money one way or the other. 
To this extent, I think debates about 4k are a bit absurd because our needs all vary so much. We should just be doing our own research at this point and not question what others are doing unless they specifically ask for advice.
I think the low end and high end will adopt 4k before anyone else. What separates Netflix and Youtube (and Amazon) is that their distribution is all digital, whereas many networks are still getting content delivered in HDCAMSR tape. There's so much 1080p infrastructure in television. And the cost of shifting vfx (in particular, but editorial in general) to 4k is massive, potentially millions of dollars for tentpoles. But they can afford that. 
So I see Netflix, the ultra low end (where you don't need to buy and maintain a large gigabit ethernet network for post because it's all done locally), and the very high end leading the way for 4k. I think bread and butter stuff, shooting for tv and ads and whatnot, that's gonna be 1080p for the near future. 
What is funny is seeing content shot at 4k or 6k that goes through the whole post process like that only to deliver in 2k. Your resolution is only as high as the weakest link, usually a vfx house that doesn't have the horsepower to render CG at 4k.
 

Believe me, I know. I'm working on a few Netflix series now and YouTube and Hulu series, too. (Well, not at this very moment but this year.) Netflix is pickiest about cameras. YouTube will accept 4k Alexa footage and most of their content is shot on 4k-upscaling Alexas. Netflix won't accept Alexa footage so I'm mostly seeing Red and F55 and I think there's some C300 Mk II mixed in, too. My preference would be Alexa but it's their choice to make.
But yes, they'll buy rights to anything even if it's in 1080p, even if they later release it as an original. 
I'm only saying that at the low end of the industry where I work, only Netflix really cares about 4k, and even they will accept 1080p content for their originals (if used sparingly or if a show or movie is produced before they acquire it).
I don't think that changes too much until you're working on tentpoles. The features I work on are all 2k DCP deliverables even if they're shot on 4k.
I guess my only point is, if you need 4k, you will know, because your clients will tell you before you roll a frame of footage. So speculating about it is a bit foolish. Whoever needs it knows they need it from the get go.

Boy do people like to complain. A camera is announced two days ago with a feature and you expect every other camera to have it? We're also talking different recording media than the C200 and Blackmagic. Different ecosystems can support different things. It seems like they're trying to push as much into this ecosystem as possible, while keeping the "real" costs of a full kit as manageable as possible. And everyone's losing it over the internal raw of C200, yet the reality is that 98% of the time that raw is used will be in a controlled environment where external monitors are the norm and an external recorder isn't a big deal. And if you start factoring in the difference in SSD costs vs cfast... well, cost-wise the playing field starts to even. The weirder thing would be building a small camera that's perfect for doc and indy uses, shoving raw internal into it, an old ass 8 bit codec, and nothing in between... and no way to get non-raw 10bit... even from the output...

Boy do people like to complain. A camera is announced two days ago with a feature and you expect every other camera to have it? We're also talking different recording media than the C200 and Blackmagic. Different ecosystems can support different things. It seems like they're trying to push as much into this ecosystem as possible, while keeping the "real" costs of a full kit as manageable as possible. And everyone's losing it over the internal raw of C200, yet the reality is that 98% of the time that raw is used will be in a controlled environment where external monitors are the norm and an external recorder isn't a big deal. And if you start factoring in the difference in SSD costs vs cfast... well, cost-wise the playing field starts to even. The weirder thing would be building a small camera that's perfect for doc and indy uses, shoving raw internal into it, an old ass 8 bit codec, and nothing in between... and no way to get non-raw 10bit... even from the output...

Boy do people like to complain. A camera is announced two days ago with a feature and you expect every other camera to have it? We're also talking different recording media than the C200 and Blackmagic. Different ecosystems can support different things. It seems like they're trying to push as much into this ecosystem as possible, while keeping the "real" costs of a full kit as manageable as possible. And everyone's losing it over the internal raw of C200, yet the reality is that 98% of the time that raw is used will be in a controlled environment where external monitors are the norm and an external recorder isn't a big deal. And if you start factoring in the difference in SSD costs vs cfast... well, cost-wise the playing field starts to even. The weirder thing would be building a small camera that's perfect for doc and indy uses, shoving raw internal into it, an old ass 8 bit codec, and nothing in between... and no way to get non-raw 10bit... even from the output...

Boy do people like to complain. A camera is announced two days ago with a feature and you expect every other camera to have it? We're also talking different recording media than the C200 and Blackmagic. Different ecosystems can support different things. It seems like they're trying to push as much into this ecosystem as possible, while keeping the "real" costs of a full kit as manageable as possible. And everyone's losing it over the internal raw of C200, yet the reality is that 98% of the time that raw is used will be in a controlled environment where external monitors are the norm and an external recorder isn't a big deal. And if you start factoring in the difference in SSD costs vs cfast... well, cost-wise the playing field starts to even. The weirder thing would be building a small camera that's perfect for doc and indy uses, shoving raw internal into it, an old ass 8 bit codec, and nothing in between... and no way to get non-raw 10bit... even from the output...

I hate to say it, but I agree. Only maybe 5% of tv and 20% of theatrical features (I'm guessing, but it's along these lines) are shot on RAW. Because it's not worth the extra expense on productions already costing $250,000/day to get that last tiny little bit of image quality. And yet it's a huge omission on a camera that costs $8000? 
You can't expect everything. Or you can, but you'll be disappointed. 

Boy do people like to complain. A camera is announced two days ago with a feature and you expect every other camera to have it? We're also talking different recording media than the C200 and Blackmagic. Different ecosystems can support different things. It seems like they're trying to push as much into this ecosystem as possible, while keeping the "real" costs of a full kit as manageable as possible. And everyone's losing it over the internal raw of C200, yet the reality is that 98% of the time that raw is used will be in a controlled environment where external monitors are the norm and an external recorder isn't a big deal. And if you start factoring in the difference in SSD costs vs cfast... well, cost-wise the playing field starts to even. The weirder thing would be building a small camera that's perfect for doc and indy uses, shoving raw internal into it, an old ass 8 bit codec, and nothing in between... and no way to get non-raw 10bit... even from the output...

Boy do people like to complain. A camera is announced two days ago with a feature and you expect every other camera to have it? We're also talking different recording media than the C200 and Blackmagic. Different ecosystems can support different things. It seems like they're trying to push as much into this ecosystem as possible, while keeping the "real" costs of a full kit as manageable as possible. And everyone's losing it over the internal raw of C200, yet the reality is that 98% of the time that raw is used will be in a controlled environment where external monitors are the norm and an external recorder isn't a big deal. And if you start factoring in the difference in SSD costs vs cfast... well, cost-wise the playing field starts to even. The weirder thing would be building a small camera that's perfect for doc and indy uses, shoving raw internal into it, an old ass 8 bit codec, and nothing in between... and no way to get non-raw 10bit... even from the output...

Boy do people like to complain. A camera is announced two days ago with a feature and you expect every other camera to have it? We're also talking different recording media than the C200 and Blackmagic. Different ecosystems can support different things. It seems like they're trying to push as much into this ecosystem as possible, while keeping the "real" costs of a full kit as manageable as possible. And everyone's losing it over the internal raw of C200, yet the reality is that 98% of the time that raw is used will be in a controlled environment where external monitors are the norm and an external recorder isn't a big deal. And if you start factoring in the difference in SSD costs vs cfast... well, cost-wise the playing field starts to even. The weirder thing would be building a small camera that's perfect for doc and indy uses, shoving raw internal into it, an old ass 8 bit codec, and nothing in between... and no way to get non-raw 10bit... even from the output...

It also doesn't look like there's a viewfinder?

Yup, I can't argue with that! Cheers!!!

Yeah, maybe. But who cares? Glorious competition.

They teased under $8k so probably $7,995 haha