aldolega

The G85 is a year old now, the GX85 about 1.5yrs. I'm not sure it's fair to compare them to the 6mo-old GH5, rather than the GH4, which they outclassed in some ways. The G90 and GX90 (or whatever the next generation are called) will certainly get some trickle-down features from the GH5.
Personally, all I feel I can reasonably ask to be improved on my G85 would be higher-bitrate 1080p. 25mbps is a bit too skimpy when things start moving. Outside of that, it's been a great upgrade/sidegrade from the GH4 for me. Better color, better lowlight, and most importantly, IBIS.
I paid $550 for the camera, I don't expect it to share everything with the quadruply-expensive GH5- even if it technically could (i.e. "artificial" marketing segmentation) share some things. Panasonic has every right to do this, both legally, and I even feel, "morally"- Panasonic is by far the most responsive to our segment of the market, and even if their cameras are "artificially" limited, they're still by far the best value on the DSLR/DSLM market for shooting video. If I was going to expend energy bitching at/about a camera company, Panasonic certainly wouldn't be my first choice.
The way I see it, get busy switching, or get busy hacking, because I don't see much coming of the angst otherwise.
Will it, though, actually? The last Panasonic to be hacked was the GH2. Vitaliy hasn't had any luck with the GH3 onwards, and Magic Lantern's work is all Canon-based, I don't see them starting from square one when they have their hands full with the Canons. I think holding out hope for a hack is a complete pipe dream at this point.

The G85 is a year old now, the GX85 about 1.5yrs. I'm not sure it's fair to compare them to the 6mo-old GH5, rather than the GH4, which they outclassed in some ways. The G90 and GX90 (or whatever the next generation are called) will certainly get some trickle-down features from the GH5.
Personally, all I feel I can reasonably ask to be improved on my G85 would be higher-bitrate 1080p. 25mbps is a bit too skimpy when things start moving. Outside of that, it's been a great upgrade/sidegrade from the GH4 for me. Better color, better lowlight, and most importantly, IBIS.
I paid $550 for the camera, I don't expect it to share everything with the quadruply-expensive GH5- even if it technically could (i.e. "artificial" marketing segmentation) share some things. Panasonic has every right to do this, both legally, and I even feel, "morally"- Panasonic is by far the most responsive to our segment of the market, and even if their cameras are "artificially" limited, they're still by far the best value on the DSLR/DSLM market for shooting video. If I was going to expend energy bitching at/about a camera company, Panasonic certainly wouldn't be my first choice.
The way I see it, get busy switching, or get busy hacking, because I don't see much coming of the angst otherwise.
Will it, though, actually? The last Panasonic to be hacked was the GH2. Vitaliy hasn't had any luck with the GH3 onwards, and Magic Lantern's work is all Canon-based, I don't see them starting from square one when they have their hands full with the Canons. I think holding out hope for a hack is a complete pipe dream at this point.

The G85 is a year old now, the GX85 about 1.5yrs. I'm not sure it's fair to compare them to the 6mo-old GH5, rather than the GH4, which they outclassed in some ways. The G90 and GX90 (or whatever the next generation are called) will certainly get some trickle-down features from the GH5.
Personally, all I feel I can reasonably ask to be improved on my G85 would be higher-bitrate 1080p. 25mbps is a bit too skimpy when things start moving. Outside of that, it's been a great upgrade/sidegrade from the GH4 for me. Better color, better lowlight, and most importantly, IBIS.
I paid $550 for the camera, I don't expect it to share everything with the quadruply-expensive GH5- even if it technically could (i.e. "artificial" marketing segmentation) share some things. Panasonic has every right to do this, both legally, and I even feel, "morally"- Panasonic is by far the most responsive to our segment of the market, and even if their cameras are "artificially" limited, they're still by far the best value on the DSLR/DSLM market for shooting video. If I was going to expend energy bitching at/about a camera company, Panasonic certainly wouldn't be my first choice.
The way I see it, get busy switching, or get busy hacking, because I don't see much coming of the angst otherwise.
Will it, though, actually? The last Panasonic to be hacked was the GH2. Vitaliy hasn't had any luck with the GH3 onwards, and Magic Lantern's work is all Canon-based, I don't see them starting from square one when they have their hands full with the Canons. I think holding out hope for a hack is a complete pipe dream at this point.

The G85 is a year old now, the GX85 about 1.5yrs. I'm not sure it's fair to compare them to the 6mo-old GH5, rather than the GH4, which they outclassed in some ways. The G90 and GX90 (or whatever the next generation are called) will certainly get some trickle-down features from the GH5.
Personally, all I feel I can reasonably ask to be improved on my G85 would be higher-bitrate 1080p. 25mbps is a bit too skimpy when things start moving. Outside of that, it's been a great upgrade/sidegrade from the GH4 for me. Better color, better lowlight, and most importantly, IBIS.
I paid $550 for the camera, I don't expect it to share everything with the quadruply-expensive GH5- even if it technically could (i.e. "artificial" marketing segmentation) share some things. Panasonic has every right to do this, both legally, and I even feel, "morally"- Panasonic is by far the most responsive to our segment of the market, and even if their cameras are "artificially" limited, they're still by far the best value on the DSLR/DSLM market for shooting video. If I was going to expend energy bitching at/about a camera company, Panasonic certainly wouldn't be my first choice.
The way I see it, get busy switching, or get busy hacking, because I don't see much coming of the angst otherwise.
Will it, though, actually? The last Panasonic to be hacked was the GH2. Vitaliy hasn't had any luck with the GH3 onwards, and Magic Lantern's work is all Canon-based, I don't see them starting from square one when they have their hands full with the Canons. I think holding out hope for a hack is a complete pipe dream at this point.

The G85 is a year old now, the GX85 about 1.5yrs. I'm not sure it's fair to compare them to the 6mo-old GH5, rather than the GH4, which they outclassed in some ways. The G90 and GX90 (or whatever the next generation are called) will certainly get some trickle-down features from the GH5.
Personally, all I feel I can reasonably ask to be improved on my G85 would be higher-bitrate 1080p. 25mbps is a bit too skimpy when things start moving. Outside of that, it's been a great upgrade/sidegrade from the GH4 for me. Better color, better lowlight, and most importantly, IBIS.
I paid $550 for the camera, I don't expect it to share everything with the quadruply-expensive GH5- even if it technically could (i.e. "artificial" marketing segmentation) share some things. Panasonic has every right to do this, both legally, and I even feel, "morally"- Panasonic is by far the most responsive to our segment of the market, and even if their cameras are "artificially" limited, they're still by far the best value on the DSLR/DSLM market for shooting video. If I was going to expend energy bitching at/about a camera company, Panasonic certainly wouldn't be my first choice.
The way I see it, get busy switching, or get busy hacking, because I don't see much coming of the angst otherwise.
Will it, though, actually? The last Panasonic to be hacked was the GH2. Vitaliy hasn't had any luck with the GH3 onwards, and Magic Lantern's work is all Canon-based, I don't see them starting from square one when they have their hands full with the Canons. I think holding out hope for a hack is a complete pipe dream at this point.

The G85 is a year old now, the GX85 about 1.5yrs. I'm not sure it's fair to compare them to the 6mo-old GH5, rather than the GH4, which they outclassed in some ways. The G90 and GX90 (or whatever the next generation are called) will certainly get some trickle-down features from the GH5.
Personally, all I feel I can reasonably ask to be improved on my G85 would be higher-bitrate 1080p. 25mbps is a bit too skimpy when things start moving. Outside of that, it's been a great upgrade/sidegrade from the GH4 for me. Better color, better lowlight, and most importantly, IBIS.
I paid $550 for the camera, I don't expect it to share everything with the quadruply-expensive GH5- even if it technically could (i.e. "artificial" marketing segmentation) share some things. Panasonic has every right to do this, both legally, and I even feel, "morally"- Panasonic is by far the most responsive to our segment of the market, and even if their cameras are "artificially" limited, they're still by far the best value on the DSLR/DSLM market for shooting video. If I was going to expend energy bitching at/about a camera company, Panasonic certainly wouldn't be my first choice.
The way I see it, get busy switching, or get busy hacking, because I don't see much coming of the angst otherwise.
Will it, though, actually? The last Panasonic to be hacked was the GH2. Vitaliy hasn't had any luck with the GH3 onwards, and Magic Lantern's work is all Canon-based, I don't see them starting from square one when they have their hands full with the Canons. I think holding out hope for a hack is a complete pipe dream at this point.

Remember that you don't have to shoot in V-Log, or Cine-D, or whatever and then laboriously grade it to perfection. There are plenty of other profiles and controls to use to get a good SOOC look. 
The catch there will be that you're usually sacrificing a bit of DR with those profiles (and DR is one of the a6500's strengths), but people seem to be getting good DR with the Like709 profile. 
Or use the Leeming LUT workflow, which couldn't really be simpler (set camera to recommended settings, shoot, drop LUT on the files in your NLE). He has LUTs for V-Log so this might be a simple way to get the max DR of the camera with no added effort in post.
If you typically have to do a lot of WB corrections I would definitely want to have 10bit just for that.
The only wins I see for the Sony would be a small edge in DR, lowlight performance, and photo quality. But if the GH5 is good enough for you in those categories, I think all of its other benefits make it the clear choice really.

The big flashy MB/a number that's plastered on cards and their packaging isn't what need to pay attention to. That number is just the peak transfer rate, what the card is capable of hitting for a few seconds under the right conditions. It's relevant to shooting bursts of photos, but not video.
For video you need to look for the minimum sustained write speed. This is the speed that the card can write at continuously, without stopping or slowing down. This number needs to be at least a smidge higher than your camera's bitrates. Unfortunately, this spec isn't as sexy as the peak write speed, so nobody uses it for marketing, and it's usually not easy to find. 
This is where the various speed class ratings come in. Class 2 would do 2MB/s continuously, Class 6 would do 6MB/s, etc. That topped out at Class 10 I believe, then they switched to the U rating... U1 is supposed to be able to write at least 10MB/s continuously, and U3 30MB/s. Then the next system is the new V rating (for video). V60 does 60MB/s, V90 does 90MB/s.

I would most definitely go for the a7RII. And probably sell off your a6300 as it won't give you anything the SII or RII don't have.
FYI, at lowish ISOs the RII's video quality is overall just as good as the SII's, better in some ways (s35 mode is suuuper sharp, better than the SII's 4K, 1080p is a bit sharper and has less rolling shutter) and worse in others (FF 4K mode is binned so a little softer and can moire).

Remember that you don't have to shoot in V-Log, or Cine-D, or whatever and then laboriously grade it to perfection. There are plenty of other profiles and controls to use to get a good SOOC look. 
The catch there will be that you're usually sacrificing a bit of DR with those profiles (and DR is one of the a6500's strengths), but people seem to be getting good DR with the Like709 profile. 
Or use the Leeming LUT workflow, which couldn't really be simpler (set camera to recommended settings, shoot, drop LUT on the files in your NLE). He has LUTs for V-Log so this might be a simple way to get the max DR of the camera with no added effort in post.
If you typically have to do a lot of WB corrections I would definitely want to have 10bit just for that.
The only wins I see for the Sony would be a small edge in DR, lowlight performance, and photo quality. But if the GH5 is good enough for you in those categories, I think all of its other benefits make it the clear choice really.

Remember that you don't have to shoot in V-Log, or Cine-D, or whatever and then laboriously grade it to perfection. There are plenty of other profiles and controls to use to get a good SOOC look. 
The catch there will be that you're usually sacrificing a bit of DR with those profiles (and DR is one of the a6500's strengths), but people seem to be getting good DR with the Like709 profile. 
Or use the Leeming LUT workflow, which couldn't really be simpler (set camera to recommended settings, shoot, drop LUT on the files in your NLE). He has LUTs for V-Log so this might be a simple way to get the max DR of the camera with no added effort in post.
If you typically have to do a lot of WB corrections I would definitely want to have 10bit just for that.
The only wins I see for the Sony would be a small edge in DR, lowlight performance, and photo quality. But if the GH5 is good enough for you in those categories, I think all of its other benefits make it the clear choice really.

The big flashy MB/a number that's plastered on cards and their packaging isn't what need to pay attention to. That number is just the peak transfer rate, what the card is capable of hitting for a few seconds under the right conditions. It's relevant to shooting bursts of photos, but not video.
For video you need to look for the minimum sustained write speed. This is the speed that the card can write at continuously, without stopping or slowing down. This number needs to be at least a smidge higher than your camera's bitrates. Unfortunately, this spec isn't as sexy as the peak write speed, so nobody uses it for marketing, and it's usually not easy to find. 
This is where the various speed class ratings come in. Class 2 would do 2MB/s continuously, Class 6 would do 6MB/s, etc. That topped out at Class 10 I believe, then they switched to the U rating... U1 is supposed to be able to write at least 10MB/s continuously, and U3 30MB/s. Then the next system is the new V rating (for video). V60 does 60MB/s, V90 does 90MB/s.

The big flashy MB/a number that's plastered on cards and their packaging isn't what need to pay attention to. That number is just the peak transfer rate, what the card is capable of hitting for a few seconds under the right conditions. It's relevant to shooting bursts of photos, but not video.
For video you need to look for the minimum sustained write speed. This is the speed that the card can write at continuously, without stopping or slowing down. This number needs to be at least a smidge higher than your camera's bitrates. Unfortunately, this spec isn't as sexy as the peak write speed, so nobody uses it for marketing, and it's usually not easy to find. 
This is where the various speed class ratings come in. Class 2 would do 2MB/s continuously, Class 6 would do 6MB/s, etc. That topped out at Class 10 I believe, then they switched to the U rating... U1 is supposed to be able to write at least 10MB/s continuously, and U3 30MB/s. Then the next system is the new V rating (for video). V60 does 60MB/s, V90 does 90MB/s.

I would use the Leeming LUT workflow on both cams, should match up nearly perfectly once you drop the LUT on.

http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/08/17/newsshooter-gets-a-sneak-peek-at-a-working-panasonic-eva1/
No LUTs. Not sure how they can keep a straight face calling the EVA a cinema camera without LUT capability.... especially when the GH5 has them.

GH5 will be much sharper (higher resolution). The G85 1080p is ok when there isn't much movement in the frame and you don't need to grade/adjust much in post. The GH5 will withstand motion better, and you can shoot in 10-bit 4:2:2 in 1080p.

I can't see how the delay on the GH5 itself could vary depending on the monitor/recorder used. I think it's just that cheap monitors add some additonal delay of their own.

Don't forget about the Video Devices PIX-E5. It only does 4k up to 30fps, so it's not the best choice for a GH5, but it is smaller than the huge 7" recorders. Built like a tank too, which is good but also kinda bad (weight).

True, assigning dollar amounts to features is a crude way of evaluating a camera. But I think my overall point stands: at this point, with what we know or can reasonably assume about the camera (GH5 LSI, AF performance), the camera is overpriced- even when disregarding the GH5 and strictly comparing to it's intended competitors (FS5/7/7II, C300II, UMP, C200).
I also think assuming the EVA will be a Varicam at half the price is a bit foolhardy- at least when recording internally. Processing and codec are very important parts of the image pipeline, and if it's the GH5 LSI in the EVA, I doubt it will be packing Varicam magic into 150Mbps. Surely the image will be a bit nicer than the GH5's, just because of the better sensor: but quadruple-the-cost better?
I'm betting the EVA will be a lot like the FS5- nice form factor, nice sensor, really nice image when outputting raw to a (bulky, fiddly, expensive) external recorder.... weak-ish internal codec that's a lot closer to what's in their consumer photo cams (GH5 or A-series, respectively) than their pro cams (Varicam or FS7/7II/F5).

I'm usually a huge Panasonic fanboy but I'm a bit pessimistic about the EVA. The price is just too high for what you're getting, which is the GH5 LSI hooked up to a new sensor.
8-bit 4:2:0 at anything over 30p? And under 30p, the bitrates are still no higher than the GH5's? C'mon, that's not $7.5K territory. That's like $5-6K territory....
GH5 is $2,000. Internal NDs and XLRs and form factor add about $1-1.5K of value. Maybe $2K if you really want to argue. Bigger sensor adds about the same. That brings it to maybe $6K- well shy of $7.5K.
And that's before considering that the EVA won't have IBIS, its AF will certainly be worse than the GH5's (which isn't stellar in the first place), and it doesn't have a viewfinder. So subtract whatever you think those are all worth- to me it's a lot- and you're most likely back under $5K.
Sure, there's RAW output, and slightly better HFR than the GH5... add what you will for those features. Maybe they make it worth it for you.
The value will be easier to judge when the GH5's 400Mbit update is released. If it's as good as everyone hopes, both cameras become much better values. But I think it will be about the same situation as the GH4's 1080p: the 100Mbit Long-GOP is better for most situations over the 200Mbit All-I, unless you're really prioritizing motion over resolution.
And then there's those pesky rumors that the Panasonic engineers can't even get the 400Mbit to work smoothly on the GH5 LSI....

True, assigning dollar amounts to features is a crude way of evaluating a camera. But I think my overall point stands: at this point, with what we know or can reasonably assume about the camera (GH5 LSI, AF performance), the camera is overpriced- even when disregarding the GH5 and strictly comparing to it's intended competitors (FS5/7/7II, C300II, UMP, C200).
I also think assuming the EVA will be a Varicam at half the price is a bit foolhardy- at least when recording internally. Processing and codec are very important parts of the image pipeline, and if it's the GH5 LSI in the EVA, I doubt it will be packing Varicam magic into 150Mbps. Surely the image will be a bit nicer than the GH5's, just because of the better sensor: but quadruple-the-cost better?
I'm betting the EVA will be a lot like the FS5- nice form factor, nice sensor, really nice image when outputting raw to a (bulky, fiddly, expensive) external recorder.... weak-ish internal codec that's a lot closer to what's in their consumer photo cams (GH5 or A-series, respectively) than their pro cams (Varicam or FS7/7II/F5).

Not with full pixel readout, no way, not in a year. Unless it's a native 1080p (2MP) sensor. I think we'd be lucky to see continuous clean(full pixel readout) 120p in the next year. Aren't the RX cams doing some sort of binning in 120p mode?

People can't be creative while they're working? Or efficient when they're not?
Wedding and event shooters aspire to pro cams because they're sick of fiddling with NDs and tiny batteries and rolling shutter and too-big or too-small codecs. The time lost dicking around with these things doesn't make anyone more creative, it only endangers their paycheck/career, AND loses them creative opportunities.
There are plenty of subjects and shooting styles that lend themselves perfectly to photo cams and their slower, fiddlier workflow... and there are plenty that don't, even past weddings and events. And this is a separate issue from creativity and freedom vs. efficiency and appearances. Someone can be completely creative whilst shooting fast-paced or high-pressure situations- at least they can if they have the time to.
I do definitely agree that the IQ gap is so much smaller nowadays that this is a much blurrier argument than it was a few years ago. A7sII, GH5, etc vs. FS5/7, C200, etc is certainly a smaller gap than 7D vs. C300, or whatever other matchup from 4-10 years ago. Smaller price gap too.
The lack of IBIS in pro bodies is also definitely adding to the blur.

Sound/Video Devices (or whoever else) should really do an updated PIX-E5 that does 4K60 and Sony's raw. 7" and 8" monitors are great for big cameras sitting on big support gear, but I bet there aren't any more of those customers than wedding/event/one-man-band types shooting with photo cams or smallish large-sensor video cams (FS5, C100, LS300 etc), who need something light and compact because they're shooting quickly, with lightweight support gear, or even handheld. They want to add something the size of their cellphone, not the size of Stephen King's new hardcover.

God yes. These cams desperately need a higher 1080p bitrate, 25mbps is just too low. A bump for 4K would be nice too, but much less needed IMO.