IronFilm

I was quite skeptical beforehand too, also had never been a great fan of any Zoom product beforehand (didn't help either I'd just got a Tascam DR680 just before the F8 came out!).
 
What used Sound Devices gear??? 
You either need to go for something very old like a 744 or 552 (and you'd still be buy double or triple what a F8 is! And even more than an F4). 
If you're looking at something more modern like a 688 or 633, they're almost impossible to find easily secondhand, and when they do appear they disappear very quickly and only at a very small discount to buying new (thus you're still spending thousands more than an F8 would cost). 
If Sound Devices depreciated at the same rate as used cameras, and had as many easily to be found on the secondhand market as there are cameras, then I'd agree it makes sense to go secondhand for a Sound Devices.
Actually their are not heaps and heaps of great audio forums out there when it comes to location sound recordist's needs. 

Those general audio forums have users whose needs and wants are so far off the mark from what a location sound recordist experiences that getting advice from there can be just as bad as getting it from video forums!! But yes, you can find useful info their if you remember they're seeing (hearing!) things from a totally different perspective than yourself! Thus take everything they say with one big grain of salt! Even so, I enjoy reading them and hanging out there for what crumbs of relevant info you can pick up.

However in the end, jwsoundgroup is the *ONLY* forum dedicated to location sound recordist (since my shift in focus to sound, I now spend more time there than on EOSHD! Sorry :-/ ). But the environment there to newbie/hobbyist sound recordists is very hostile. A thread like this about DR70D vs H5 would run a high risk of just being mercilessly ripped into.
So in the end, the amount of info there is for the newbie/hobbyist/semi-pro location sound recordist is somewhat limited and scattered (one of the reasons why I started up my youtube channel to vblog on this topic, to encourage more discussion of it, and help further spread more good info on this).
 

Not me.

I was quite skeptical beforehand too, also had never been a great fan of any Zoom product beforehand (didn't help either I'd just got a Tascam DR680 just before the F8 came out!).
 
What used Sound Devices gear??? 
You either need to go for something very old like a 744 or 552 (and you'd still be buy double or triple what a F8 is! And even more than an F4). 
If you're looking at something more modern like a 688 or 633, they're almost impossible to find easily secondhand, and when they do appear they disappear very quickly and only at a very small discount to buying new (thus you're still spending thousands more than an F8 would cost). 
If Sound Devices depreciated at the same rate as used cameras, and had as many easily to be found on the secondhand market as there are cameras, then I'd agree it makes sense to go secondhand for a Sound Devices.
Actually their are not heaps and heaps of great audio forums out there when it comes to location sound recordist's needs. 

Those general audio forums have users whose needs and wants are so far off the mark from what a location sound recordist experiences that getting advice from there can be just as bad as getting it from video forums!! But yes, you can find useful info their if you remember they're seeing (hearing!) things from a totally different perspective than yourself! Thus take everything they say with one big grain of salt! Even so, I enjoy reading them and hanging out there for what crumbs of relevant info you can pick up.

However in the end, jwsoundgroup is the *ONLY* forum dedicated to location sound recordist (since my shift in focus to sound, I now spend more time there than on EOSHD! Sorry :-/ ). But the environment there to newbie/hobbyist sound recordists is very hostile. A thread like this about DR70D vs H5 would run a high risk of just being mercilessly ripped into.
So in the end, the amount of info there is for the newbie/hobbyist/semi-pro location sound recordist is somewhat limited and scattered (one of the reasons why I started up my youtube channel to vblog on this topic, to encourage more discussion of it, and help further spread more good info on this).
 

That is around double the price, and is less easy to use than an F4 (or F8) & is less inputs. You really need to pair it with a mixer front end, which further drives up the cost and weight.
Yeah I'm pretty calm and chill, is water off a duck's back for me.
But the hostility (to n00bs) on pro location sound forums is quite unlike other forums, and it also means you're not likely to get constructive answers instead of just flaming. 
I love google! :-D

I was quite skeptical beforehand too, also had never been a great fan of any Zoom product beforehand (didn't help either I'd just got a Tascam DR680 just before the F8 came out!).
 
What used Sound Devices gear??? 
You either need to go for something very old like a 744 or 552 (and you'd still be buy double or triple what a F8 is! And even more than an F4). 
If you're looking at something more modern like a 688 or 633, they're almost impossible to find easily secondhand, and when they do appear they disappear very quickly and only at a very small discount to buying new (thus you're still spending thousands more than an F8 would cost). 
If Sound Devices depreciated at the same rate as used cameras, and had as many easily to be found on the secondhand market as there are cameras, then I'd agree it makes sense to go secondhand for a Sound Devices.
Actually their are not heaps and heaps of great audio forums out there when it comes to location sound recordist's needs. 

Those general audio forums have users whose needs and wants are so far off the mark from what a location sound recordist experiences that getting advice from there can be just as bad as getting it from video forums!! But yes, you can find useful info their if you remember they're seeing (hearing!) things from a totally different perspective than yourself! Thus take everything they say with one big grain of salt! Even so, I enjoy reading them and hanging out there for what crumbs of relevant info you can pick up.

However in the end, jwsoundgroup is the *ONLY* forum dedicated to location sound recordist (since my shift in focus to sound, I now spend more time there than on EOSHD! Sorry :-/ ). But the environment there to newbie/hobbyist sound recordists is very hostile. A thread like this about DR70D vs H5 would run a high risk of just being mercilessly ripped into.
So in the end, the amount of info there is for the newbie/hobbyist/semi-pro location sound recordist is somewhat limited and scattered (one of the reasons why I started up my youtube channel to vblog on this topic, to encourage more discussion of it, and help further spread more good info on this).
 

I was quite skeptical beforehand too, also had never been a great fan of any Zoom product beforehand (didn't help either I'd just got a Tascam DR680 just before the F8 came out!).
 
What used Sound Devices gear??? 
You either need to go for something very old like a 744 or 552 (and you'd still be buy double or triple what a F8 is! And even more than an F4). 
If you're looking at something more modern like a 688 or 633, they're almost impossible to find easily secondhand, and when they do appear they disappear very quickly and only at a very small discount to buying new (thus you're still spending thousands more than an F8 would cost). 
If Sound Devices depreciated at the same rate as used cameras, and had as many easily to be found on the secondhand market as there are cameras, then I'd agree it makes sense to go secondhand for a Sound Devices.
Actually their are not heaps and heaps of great audio forums out there when it comes to location sound recordist's needs. 

Those general audio forums have users whose needs and wants are so far off the mark from what a location sound recordist experiences that getting advice from there can be just as bad as getting it from video forums!! But yes, you can find useful info their if you remember they're seeing (hearing!) things from a totally different perspective than yourself! Thus take everything they say with one big grain of salt! Even so, I enjoy reading them and hanging out there for what crumbs of relevant info you can pick up.

However in the end, jwsoundgroup is the *ONLY* forum dedicated to location sound recordist (since my shift in focus to sound, I now spend more time there than on EOSHD! Sorry :-/ ). But the environment there to newbie/hobbyist sound recordists is very hostile. A thread like this about DR70D vs H5 would run a high risk of just being mercilessly ripped into.
So in the end, the amount of info there is for the newbie/hobbyist/semi-pro location sound recordist is somewhat limited and scattered (one of the reasons why I started up my youtube channel to vblog on this topic, to encourage more discussion of it, and help further spread more good info on this).
 

The big question we have however, is this the new norm or will we be returning to the average.
So will the hectic pace of the last couple of years keep up and will it spread to other areas in location audio?

I suspect the answer is probably no and no. :-/ Sadly. 
Because it really is just in recorders that we've seen so much progress in the low end over the last couple of years. 

But in other areas such as microphones / boom poles / cables / wireless / shock mounts / blimps / etc... technology is moving forward relatively slowly and prices are not coming down radically. (although yes, progress is still happen, look at the new Rycote Cyclone!!). With one key exception: time code boxes, we've also seen some breathtaking advances here over the last couple of years or so.

Now, with recorders, the questions are:
1) are we going to see Tascam / Roland / Behringer (???) / someone else / etc respond with a product of their own?
Unlikely, I wouldn't hold your breath (although I heard rumors Tascam is developing something. And who knows if some wildcard might come in and surprise us!).
2) Will Zoom or Sound Devices release another sub $1K device soon? 
Very doubtful. Sound Devices certainly will not within the next half decade or so, probably even longer. I wasn't expecting the Zoom F4 from Zoom so quickly after the F8, maybe they'll surprise me again?

Personally I'd  rather see Zoom concentrate on improving their little family of recorders they now have of the F4/F8, plenty of firmware updates they could still bring to them. And just generally make the ecosystem around them work better together with the F4/F8. For instance they need to update their Zoom EXH-6 accessory. And work with other companies such as Movie Slate / Time Code Systems to get integration with their products (like Sound Devices has done). Plus releasing a superslot equivalent would be cool too! 
3) Will Zaxcom / Sonosax / Aaton / etc be releasing a sub $1K recorder/mixer as well?
I'd say the odds respectively are: very very unlikely, very very very very very unlikely, and next to impossible. 
Was a massive surprise when Sound Devices did it! Very strongly doubt any of those other similar tier brands will be following along and doing it themselves as well. But who knows, never say never?

So what will be seeing in the future as technology moves forward? Here is my optimistic expectations for happening within the next five years:

We'll see more technology integrated into smaller packages. For example, we had automixing included in the 688, then there was the big update for the 633 when it got Dugan too! :-o Maybe sometime in the coming years there will be a firmware update for the F8 which has this too? One can wish and hope! Another possible example is the amazing new product at NAB this year, the CEDAR DNS2!! Will this also get included into recorders/mixers too just like Dugan has been too? Doubt it will happen soon, not even in the next release of 600 series from Sound Series, but hey maybe in the next generation after that?

Wish I had an S4! I'm still using a Samsung J2! Ha

I'm using it for my casual vBlogging, but honestly a potato would do better at filming me than the J2's camera!!

I don't know if anyone saw the presentation, but this guy went on and on about how absolutely amazing the face recognition was, how neither masks nor face models (clay/ silicone?) could fool it, how they had like 1 billion faces scanned etc etc.
And then he tried using his face to unlock the phone ... And it FAILED. Hahahahahahahahaha 
He went ahead and punched in a security code number in, and pretended nothing happened.

I can't help but suspect the Hydrogen will be a gimmick. The iPhone is going to help drive some innovation, and I like that. Mobile moves much faster. Can't wait to see how Android answers the new iPhone.

Not me.

Not me.

I'm so frustrated with Panasonic that they didn't choose to use a locking MFT mount!!

Or at least a sub-PL mount like Kinefinity does. 
http://ironfilm.co.nz/what-if-kinefinitys-kinemount-became-a-universal-cinema-mount/
Exactly, and you could still beef up the MFT mount while keeping it MFT! And you could make a positive locking MFT mount. Making it even more desirable for professional users. 

No, we're not saying audio gear will last "forever".
But relative to camera gear, audio gear will last you longer. (which means it can be a relatively better investment)

Your audio recorders will last you longer than the typical camera life cycle, and microphones will last you at least as long as lenses and probably even longer.
I guess my problem is the lack of balance here, how in one thread it is so wrong to spend $1K on audio gear yet on the next thread over it is all ok and normalized to spend $8K on camera gear. 

 
 
 
 
And I'm not denying it is a heck of deal! We are on the same page about that :-) I started out with a Tascam DR60D mk1 (well, had a Zoom H1 for a couple of years before then, but I'm not counting that).
 
But I almost kinda get the impression from reading your post that you regard the DR60D and F4 as being on par with each other??? Which is pretty delusional thinking. Is like trying to tell me a T2i and a C300 are the same as each other because they're both 8bit video cameras. Errr.... what?? They're so much more than that!

Yes, you can do great work with a DR60D just like we have seen in this forum you can also with a T2i when treated carefully and you work to its strengths (and avoid its weaknesses).  But what happens when you move outside that limited range of uses where it shines? The T2i/DR60D will struggle and fail

What I'm striving to see in this forum, is greater balance here between camera and sound. 
So sure if you're using a T2i, then a DR60D is going to be a good match for that. 
But if you're shooting with say a Panasonic GH5, with a nice set of lenses, gimbal, quality tripod, a decent lighting kit, etc  then you shouldn't be using a DR60D at the core of your audio kit! I'd suggest something instead in the range of a DR70D to 633 instead.
 
And where is this comparably priced Sound Devices? 
If you mean the MixPre6, it still lacks some of the functions/features of the F8/F4. 
Yet the MixPre6 costs more than the F4. 

And if you mean the MixPre3 (which costs the same as an F4): the one with only 3 ISO tracks, oh hell no The MixPre3 is a way way to crippled machine to seriously consider. (but then again if you really REALLY want that ultra compact size, and CERTAIN you'd never need more than 3 inputs, then maaaaaybe it might make sense. Maybe)

Additionally I find the whole issue of analogue vs digital limiters to be way waaaaay overblown, yes it would be nice if the F4/F8 had anologue limiters too. But it is *not* the big deal most people seem to make it out to be. 

After all many professional recorders use some form of digital limiters, for instance the latest Zaxcom recorders, or the Sound Devices 633 on inputs 4 to 6. 
So rather than just saying blindly something like "all digital limiters are BAD, they're all the same, and are always a dealbreaker to me" you should take a more refined approach to it. (personally I'd rather have Zaxcom's Neverclip technology rather than Sound Device's analogue limiters)
Also we should remember you should NOT be using your limiters hard on every shot. If you are, you're being an idiot, and should turn down your gain. 
Limiters are just there as a last gasp insurance safety measure. 
An even better safety approach (as using limiters of any sort, analogue or digital, is not ideal) is to run a safety track at the same time (which the MixPre6 can't do), to handle the extreme circumstances you might come across. 

Additionally if you need to think about the source before it even hits your recorder, if you're using wireless and it is distorting before it even reaches you then it doesn't matter what kind of limiters you have! Because of these reasons, and others, the whole analogue vs digital limiters thing is a little overblown.
 
I watched Curtis Judd's video when it was first uploaded! :-) I'm a big fan of his channel. And I even went back and watched that YT video just now all over again just for the hell of it :-D
But a few points:
1) he isn't a perfect God of knowledge. For instance it seems flawed to me to promote the Zoom H1 + lav as an option when the Tascam DR10 is so much superior for this niche/price range. 
2) he is targeting his YT channel at the low end and/or videographer (not sound recordist). So his remarks need to be remembered within that context
But overall he is pretty ok, & I agree with him more often than not.  He is also a fan of the Zoom F4 too! (even though the F4 hadn't came out yet at the point of that video upload, he still talks positively about the F4 & recommends waiting for its release)

For instance I say (if you've seen my blog post, or even just the comments here on this forum):
No budget: Tascam DR60Dmk2
Ultra Low budget: Tascam DR70D
Low budget / Semi Pro: Zoom F4 / F8
Entry point for pro grade: Sound Devices 633

And yeah, Curtis Judd pretty mentions the same ones and ranks them like that too.

I just bought a Tascam DR22WL and its great, absolutely no digital noise

I'm so frustrated with Panasonic that they didn't choose to use a locking MFT mount!!

Or at least a sub-PL mount like Kinefinity does. 
http://ironfilm.co.nz/what-if-kinefinitys-kinemount-became-a-universal-cinema-mount/
Exactly, and you could still beef up the MFT mount while keeping it MFT! And you could make a positive locking MFT mount. Making it even more desirable for professional users. 

And Canon only made the 5Dmk2 "mistake" in the first place because they got "forced" into it by Nikon! 

Because Nikon released their D90 first. 

Maybe Sony is trying harder in the Chinese market because it is a brand new market (relatively speaking) so it will be easy to break in and smash the status quo that is in other countries? 
 
Well that is no surprise, they're two of the biggest retailers in the world!
Kodak innovated to a limited extent, but they didn't push it, they wanted to protect their cash cow: film. 

Just like Canon, who is innovating to a small extent, but mostly is trying to protect their products from themselves (vs protecting against competitors!).

If you're  a solo shooter on a tight budget, then probably half the features of the F4 you might not appreciate. 

But if you think in the future there is any chance you might specialise as a location sound recordist, then the Zoom F4 becomes a no brainer choice. 
I'm picking up six DPA microphones today! :-o
This.
Sadly this.

People quibble over spending a few hundred for audio gear, yet will drop thousands in a blink of an eye on camera gear and lights.

Makes me sad when I see sets where the entire audio equipment is costing the same as a single lens the camera department has :-/ 
Which often is true in the indie low budget world.

Of course when I show up...  we get the reverse problem! lol
Where my entire audio kit is costing more than what the camera department has. Ha
Fingers crossed for a Sound Devices 633 mk2! Or a new Sonosax or Zaxcom. 
Athough it would be better if they don't release anything.... don't think I could afford them this year! :-o
I'll be sticking with my Zoom F4 for a while longer ;-)
I agree, the Tascam DR60D (I also used to own a DR60D mk1) is not quite the build level of a Sound Devices (or even a Zoom F4), the build quality of the DR60D is still not a big practical concern. If that is all a person can afford, then don't let that factor into holding you back from buying one!

I work in documentary TV and what I have seen in 5 years is exactly what you are talking about Andrew - a lower/mid budget set up would be C300 and 5Dmk3 and cinema cameras would be sony or arri to now FS7, A7S2 and then a cinema sony or arri.  Canon have LOST a huuuge market with doc makers, everyone is pretty much using FS7s because they are more versatile and shoot beautiful images, they like the A7S2s because they are small, can chuck their EF lenses on it with speedbooster and shoot in crazy low light.  
We had an in house C300 up until recently, but sold it due to it not being used in a year.  We also have a couple of 5Dmk3s and they only get used for stills these days. 
I remember seeing the 1DC on a shoot and thinking how incredible the footage and that this may be how all their cameras would go... but... nope 
I think they got greedy and wanted to push everyone on to their C-1/2/300s, they could have cornered the market! just imagine a 5DC and 1DC line running alongside the still camera lines with all the potential magic lantern unlock .. that massive error twinned with disappointing stills cameras being produced, can't see them keeping their dominance for much longer

NX1's AF was the second best back then, not that further away from Canon's, and still I prefer it from Sony's for video (so in my opinion, it is still the second best!). Samsung was nothing to Canon back then, the smaller players were afraid the most (Olympus, Fuji, Panasonic mainly; Sony was worried, and Nikon would have been doomed). Olympus and Fuji haven't the resources to fight Samsung, Nikon can't compete in the new digital age, and even Panasonic is much smaller than Samsung.
Sony is powerful, but Samsung had some amazing R&D breakthroughs, and the capacity to manufacture EVERYTHING you need for a photo/video camera (CPUs, RAMs, lenses, Super AMOLED touch screens, everything). First 28mpxls BSI sensor (A7Rii was the second big sensored BSI actually) etc etc.
Samsung just decided that they didn't want to compete on a declining market, and pro video/photography was a long shot. NX1 was too late in the game.
It is just a pity that we didn't see a NX1mkII, they did the first version SOOOOO good, without any prior real practical experience. The NX team had some truly talented and passionate people (just check some of their older corporate videos), something that a huge capitalistic and autocratic mega-trust, couldn't allow to exist.

Cool! Really enjoyed the blog post too. 
My Sony F3 finally sold for far too little, but luckily that was still double what I needed to buy a used BMPCC with zoom and 6 batteries from ebay, augmenting the purchase with a 128GB Extreme Pro SD card. Now just to receive it sometime this week and start the learning curve. Can't wait to start showing some projects here!

No purpose really, just curiosity. I am thinking about getting another Micro in a couple months, especially after seeing that the Ursa handgrip works with the Micro's Lanc. 

If a person doesn't need:
5th & 6th inputs.
Time code.
Hirose power connection.
XLR outputs.
Metadata entry.
USB interface.
Flexible file naming.
(& much more)
 
Then yes the Tascam DR70D could be a worthy lower priced option.
 
But those other things I mentioned are VERY handy. Some are essential even (such as TC & metadata entry) if working as a sound recordist on bit bigger productions.
But if you just need the basics of a 4 ISO track recorder then the Tascam DR70D will be fine enough for now.
 

Yes I agree the battery life with the Tascam DR70D is a non-issue. Just use an external power supply!
It is quite normal with ALL recorders that if you have a full shoot day, then you just use an external power supply.
Even if you've dumped billions of dollars and purchased a new Sound Devices / Zaxcom / Sanosax recorder, then you still use an external power supply.
So I don't see it as a massive negative to criticise the DR70D for that, just that the micro USB connection is not as ideal as Hirose.
 
I have never owned a Tascam DR70D, but I used one when I was starting out, when I was the sound recordist for a feature film.
 And I had an issue with it, also with my Tascam DR60D mk1 that I had at the time, but all was solved with a simple firmware update:
http://ironfilm.co.nz/firmware-update-for-tascam-dr-60d-mk1-fixes-recording-interruptions-when-running-on-external-usb-power-packs/