IronFilm

A little short film I've literally just released online! Shot on a BMCC and graded with my BozBMDFilm to Rec709 LUT. Download HERE: https://bulentozdemirfilms.wordpress.com/downloads/bmcc-bmpcc-bozbmdfilm-to-rec709-lut/. Hope you like 
 

This camera has detail to spare. I upscale to 4k upload to YouTube it looks much better at all rezes  
And I was cruising the BMCuser forms and there is some discussion about the black art of shooting low light some say shoot raw @ 400 in  low light and there is room to bring it back in resolve if you import it right. I tried it with my bedroom w/ Canon FD 1.4 and it did look pretty good

An Amira mini  that weighs only around 1 kg would keep me going until the "Grim Reaper".
The new EVA1 is only 1.2kg .

Video is my profession, but photography is my hobby, so I would choose a true hybrid. Samsung NX1 ticks the most boxes for me.
H265 video, 4K/30p, 1080p/120frames, DIS, a nice collection of native lenses (10mm fish eye, 30mm pancake, 45mm, 16-50S the ones I most use).
28mpxls BSI APS-C sensor, 15frames, great ergonomics (if not best in class), a modern AF system (even for video, but it starts to getting old now, still relevant though), great battery life, great touch screen, UI.
That's why I have two!
 

Nah, but I think that arguably the difference between the two is not that great.  
Especially if you want to save on the data storage and the extra cost for a recorder. 

Heck, with my BMPCC I almost never recorder raw, and ProRes444 doesn't even exist as an option, so ProResHQ is my usual choice (or even ProResLT! :-P If it is just to be uploaded immediately to my vlog).
So in a way, I'm approaching my BMPCC and F3 in the same way here. 

I think the way NZ manages to luckily make this "work" (our government spending as a % of the economy is worse than the USA, creeping close to Greek levels) is:

1) we're a pretty lucky country! Remotely located away from the troubles of the rest of the world (no wars to worry about, or illegal immigrants flooding over our boarders). We're not known for being "the country of milk and honey" for nothing! We have a great climate and country for agriculture. 

2) we had massive reforms in the 1980's / early 1990's which helped turn us around (we used to be known as "Fortress New Zealand", as we had such stringent controls. Possibly the worst of any country outside the Soviet Block!)
 
3) we live "Outside the Asylum" (for now! Though is getting worse): https://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot.com/search/label/fun 
https://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot.com/2017/09/the-outside-of-asylum.html

I'm in Australia. Everything is slow. You're server could be a zx81 and we wouldn't know ? (so you're site is fine, never noticed any probs)

I think he is nuts to go handheld for so long that he does (this is his second RED ONE! And we shot an entire film film together for five weeks in Australia, I was doing sound of course with my F4 etc).

He does need to take a few painkillers now and then I think. It is heavy on your back! Especially without any full time 1st AC to help you out. 

But I can't be too much of a hypocrite.... my back is still a little bit fvcked up from 5 weeks of shooting with a mixing bag being carried by me every day.

However this 2nd RED ONE is going to mainly live on a tripod, because it only has a CF slot. Thus he'll use the HDD, so it is best it stays on a tripod. 

And his 1st RED ONE (which he recently upgrade to a SSD) will be his handheld one. 
 

I think he is nuts to go handheld for so long that he does (this is his second RED ONE! And we shot an entire film film together for five weeks in Australia, I was doing sound of course with my F4 etc).

He does need to take a few painkillers now and then I think. It is heavy on your back! Especially without any full time 1st AC to help you out. 

But I can't be too much of a hypocrite.... my back is still a little bit fvcked up from 5 weeks of shooting with a mixing bag being carried by me every day.

However this 2nd RED ONE is going to mainly live on a tripod, because it only has a CF slot. Thus he'll use the HDD, so it is best it stays on a tripod. 

And his 1st RED ONE (which he recently upgrade to a SSD) will be his handheld one. 
 

I've made this point a few times now elsewhere in other threads/forums, and basically if you're not making money from your camera than you shouldn't get a 4K cinema camera. You should get yourself a 1080 cinema camera, or a 4K stills camera (or heck... even a 1080 one, no shame in shooting with a G6/D750/a7Smk1!).
 
EXCEPTION: if you're a rich hobbyist. Go ahead and buy an URSA Mini Pro! Or whatever.

As then things don't have to make any more financial sense to you than the $20K road bike you purchased but only ride down to the coffee shops once a fortnight, or the $20K set of golf clubs you haven't used for the last year. 
 

Yeah, Safety Not Guaranteed being shot pre-Slog days kinda squashes many complaints about its internal quality. Sure, it is not as good as the external recordings with slog, but what really matters is the operator/lighting/director/editor/etc!

I think the way NZ manages to luckily make this "work" (our government spending as a % of the economy is worse than the USA, creeping close to Greek levels) is:

1) we're a pretty lucky country! Remotely located away from the troubles of the rest of the world (no wars to worry about, or illegal immigrants flooding over our boarders). We're not known for being "the country of milk and honey" for nothing! We have a great climate and country for agriculture. 

2) we had massive reforms in the 1980's / early 1990's which helped turn us around (we used to be known as "Fortress New Zealand", as we had such stringent controls. Possibly the worst of any country outside the Soviet Block!)
 
3) we live "Outside the Asylum" (for now! Though is getting worse): https://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot.com/search/label/fun 
https://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot.com/2017/09/the-outside-of-asylum.html

@DBounce Indeed, very well thought. With the EVA I had in mind something that could connect the lower end of video (let's say GH5) to the higher ones (Varicam).
For sure we don't know a thing about what the image of the EVA will look like, so everything is in thin air right now, as we (most) know specs are telling half, or even less, of the truth, and what about the Dual Native ISO? it certainly won't be 800/5000, so what if it is 400/2000? C100 eats 2000ISO for afternoon snack.
Not only that, what is going to be the Sony response? I am sure they must have something almost done at this point. They probably laugh at the Pana and Canon announcements. They can offer the world, if they want, the only problem is the recently released FS7markII, that wasn't as groundbreaking as we would like.
The Canon has already announced that it is going to be a free upgrade, while Pana announced that the raw upgrade will be a paid one. Some one that cares about raw should consider this as well.
It is not silly to complain a bit on forums, some companies have people following the reactions. It won't be strange if Pana includes changeable mounts, and Canon 10bit codec.

Not sure I agree here.
 
 
Actually, Dalsa and Thompson were in the video megapixel wars before RED existed.  Dalsa had its Origin (4k) and Thompson had its Viper (9.2 MP).
 
 
Exactly.  There is no optical problem using any one of the current popular shallow mounts (M4/3, Sony E, Canon EF-M) with S35 sensors.  Personally, I don't care about sensor cropping (auto or otherwise).
 
 
Using an MFT mount (or Sony E or Canon EF-M) doesn't preclude the use of EF lenses (nor any other deep-mount market to which Panasonic would like to pander).
 
It is very simple to start with an MFT mount, and merely provide an smart MFT-to-EF adapter that, after it is locked into place, additionally bolts onto the front of the camera for reinforcement.  Said adapter could taper seamlessly and organically from the front of the camera body down the the EF mount, and none of the clueless EF shooters would realize that there is actually an adapter in place.
 
 
I would guess that they dismissed the MFT option out of hand, because of hubris, laziness, and because solutions such as the organically integrated adapter scenario mentioned above would never occur to them.
 
 
Some manufactures can actually see past their noses and beyond the immediate "bottom line."  Such camera makers seek to make money in the long term and to proudly innovate in their industry while developing loyal, solid customer base.  I would agree with you that Panasonic (and Canon and Sony) is not that type of manufacturer.
 
 
Sadly, with the huge surge of production people in the digital age, many camera buyers seem less sophisticated than those of the pre-digital age , so legions of new digital shooters happily gobble up whatever a huge manufacturer provides.

I've made this point a few times now elsewhere in other threads/forums, and basically if you're not making money from your camera than you shouldn't get a 4K cinema camera. You should get yourself a 1080 cinema camera, or a 4K stills camera (or heck... even a 1080 one, no shame in shooting with a G6/D750/a7Smk1!).
 
EXCEPTION: if you're a rich hobbyist. Go ahead and buy an URSA Mini Pro! Or whatever.

As then things don't have to make any more financial sense to you than the $20K road bike you purchased but only ride down to the coffee shops once a fortnight, or the $20K set of golf clubs you haven't used for the last year. 
 

Yeah, Safety Not Guaranteed being shot pre-Slog days kinda squashes many complaints about its internal quality. Sure, it is not as good as the external recordings with slog, but what really matters is the operator/lighting/director/editor/etc!

If you want a 4K cinema camera on a tiny budget, the FS700 is no slouch. When paired with an external recorder, it offers essentially the same image quality as the FS5/FS7. It's not as good an image as the F3 from a noise, DR, and color standpoint, but stands up pretty well regardless--especially with solid lighting.
 
Pass: Pharma

All shot on the FS700, and we've gotten into almost a dozen festivals now.

Really sounds like the F3 is the right choice for you.
Or maybe perhaps a Sony FS700.
Or maaaaaybe if feeling really super adventurous and up for it, try to get lucky with a cheap Sony F35.
 
However, if a you never did much while owning a BMMCC then I highly doubt buying an even more expensive camera will radically change that.

The F3 will only transfer 1080/60 4:2:2 from a single SDI port if you have the 4:4:4 upgrade, because that upgrade also allows the SDI A port to work at 3G instead of 1.5G. The 60p will still be 4:2:2.
I use my $1200 F3 with a BMVA I got secondhand for $300. It didn't even require me to update my media, because I was able to use the same SD cards I had in my Blackmagic Pocket. This package gives me great 1080p 4:2:2 at 24, 30, and 60 fps. Along with the great low light performance and excellent color/DR in S-LOG, I've had absolutely nothing to complain about on an image quality level. 
I know some people who have a poor opinion of the F3, and honestly agree with their reasons. Most of them have either A) shot the F3 without LOG, or B) shot on the internal codec. Safety Not Guaranteed proved that neither is a death sentence with a professional colorist, but the camera really only takes its place as one of the best 1080p sensors when utilizing both LOG and an external recorder. The earlier comparison between the C300, Epic, and F3 demonstrates that gap in image quality quite clearly.
4K can be nice to have in certain scenarios, but I haven't worked with an editor/director yet who didn't prefer a 1080 ProRes workflow. The F3's lower pixel count also helps with rolling shutter and battery life, both of which are superior to the UM4.6K (which I've used and liked). 
The whole "I'll shoot more if I get better gear" justification is wishful thinking; trust me, I told myself that for several years where I produced very little. Get the cheapest, most modestly specced camera that does what you need and looks nice, then use it until you push up against its limitations. Then assess from there. 

Ain’t that the truth. I am in no place to tell someone how to spend their money, god knows I’ve spent a small fortune of my own but as a hobbyist that is also interested in the conveniences of cinema cameras, I cannot rightly say that I could ever justify a $4500 price tag just to have 4K, when the majority of viewers will never see the benefits. In my opinion, if Arri hasn’t felt the need to release a 4K camera, then I don’t see why anybody on here really NEEDS one. 
So with that being said I feel the OP should get whatever he wants for whatever reason he wants, but I would still suggest either an F3, a C100ii or C300 or I guess an LS300 or FS5 if he really wants a 4K camera. And if he wants one on the cheap then get an LS300 but he should be fully aware of the build quality before just hitting buy it now.

What specifically is he saying? If he is just vaguely say "it is not good" then call him out on his bullsh*t

Get an Atomos Samurai Blade like I did (or get a BMD VA), you can find it secondhand for just $300ish. Or buy new for $500
SSDs are dirt dirt cheap these days! We are not still living in the days of the BMCC when it was first released, and you had to spend a minor small fortune on recording media. 

 
A full Kinemini package for $4K would be good too, did you know they just recently announced a Terra 4K as well? US$4K for the brain. 

They shot a bunch of other things with their KiniMINI as well:
 


Basically we live in a fantastic time, any of FS700/F3/Kinemini/Terra/BMMCC/BMPCC would be a excellent choice that great things can be made with!

Yeah, whatever is your budget for a camera body, go ahead and double it immediately, then double it again!

Once you add in accessories + lenses + lights + audio + tripod + etc.... it is very easy to blow waaaaaay past that!

I disagree, an active m4/3 mount makes a lot of sense.  You could keep the s35 sensor and bundle the camera with high quality m4/3-EF locking adapter, like a higher quality Sigma MC-11 E to EF adapter, and use the full sensor for s35 glass.  For m4/3 you can use a crop of the sensor -use the smaller crop like the GH2 multiaspect sensor -so 1.86X crop compared to full frame, so would be a reduction in resolution compared to s35 glass but you are starting with 5.6K so shouldn't be too bad. That way you keep your high-end camera market happy with an active EF option, you keep the GH4/5 users who have invested in m4/3 lenses happy with the option to use the same glass and have a smaller, lighter AF option for run and gun, you can potentially use a speed booster and you can adapt pretty much any vintage glass to the camera. If Panasonic itself won't support m4/3 for video then I don't understand why are they spending $$$ on developing GH5 and pushing it hard for professional video use.

@jax_rox...I only own 4 Panasonic native lenses...and I bemoan NOTHING...I'm expressing why this mount and camera means nothing to me...please refrain from inferring that you have any idea of my intent with my equipment...you don't....I am expressing my point of view re why this camera does not suit me with an EF mount and I don't give a fuck who Panasonic targeted with this camera...but it's not me...and as for the value in being able to adapt a multitude of lenses to one system....plenty of forum material on the internet.

Super short on "The Wrong camera" made by Paul Ream extrashot.co.uk
 

Hi
Just because they are identical doesn't mean they are of course.  A lot of manufactures will buy in NAND memory from wherever is cheapest, and even if the same they will be differing quality.  In the same way Intel CPUs are mostly the same with the best off the production line running and sold at higher clock speeds, NAND works in a similar way.  Also as the NAND is used and bad blocks are mapped out, the speed and reliability will vary.  If it works and it isn't a V60/V90 card, it's a lucky find, buying the exact same again you may not be so lucky.
V90 cards are using the cream of NAND memory and a different recording protocol to achieve a guaranteed minimum write speed regardless if the card is fresh out of the packaging or on it's 100 use.  This is why they are more expensive and harder to come by. 
Regards
Phil
 
Hi
Me neither, and the likely hood of the final output being All-Intra is next to none, even if there was a visible benefit, it wouldn't be delivered that way. 
Also IPB in the GH5 codec isn't really that long of a GOP, as usually just 24 or 60 group of pictures is used in the GH5 for a group, in comparison internet streams or higher compression rates will see 200 or more before a clean I frame.  So cameras like the GH5 don't really suffer from motion issues caused by the compression anyway.  
Regards
Phil
 

I guess so, but I've always found the Alexa keyed a lot better than the Epic and F55. And that the cost of a fiber network plus storage and render times to support 4k pushed budgets up insanely high even for 2D work.
That's true, though. That's a fair point. On high end stuff the cost of the network and storage must become irrelevant.