Bioskop.Inc

17 minutes ago, jonpais said:

I’ve got no beef with anyone pointing out the obvious flaws in the footage - it’s the gratuitous and wholly unnecessary remarks about Jun that I find offensive. 

You are the one that brought him up - I don't know who he is, never heard of him & I don't care! No one attacked him by name - all they said was that this wasn't a great example for showing off the camera.

And you're the one who's name calling - think you might be the forum troll?

And yes, I'm baiting you now....

21 hours ago, Son Lee said:

I saw a lad posting on facebook, that he's using a 40mm pancake lens on a full frame camera with Kowa B&H. That's pretty sweet if you ask me.

If money were no issue, what scope (1.5-2x stretch, 1.33 seems pretty pointless to me) could one buy, to be able to go the widest on full frame (get the widest FOV after 2.4:1 crop)? I own sony A7S, and there's a lot of 35-45-50mm glass I'd love to use with scopes.

Iscoramas? Kowa B&H? Inflight? Bolex?

Thank

Cristiano

 

On a FF camera the following applies:

Kowa (2x) - 75mm

Iscorama (1.5x) - 50mm

The widest would be the Panasonic LA7200 (1.33x) at 35mm. But, you can crop to 2.40 & it should eliminate most vignetting - so if he said he could use a 40mm, that could be correct (I don't have or use FF cameras). The only thing to remember is that Anamorphics do like/play better with longer taking lenses & because you're using an anamorphic, you don't have to use extreme wide angle lenses. The real downfall of using wide angle lenses (some, if not all 35mm) is that they will tend to have skewed edges & this will be worse on a 2x anamorphic - but again, if you're cropping this won't be so obvious.

12 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Typical armchair critic thinking he can give lessons to a pro. It’s just test footage for crying out loud. I don’t think you have anything of value to teach Jun about operating a camera or grading footage. 

Used to work for the BBC years ago - so, yes, i probably could teach him a thing or two about using a camera.

There was no need for him to go handheld as neither she or he moved to any great extent, so no need for shaky footage.

I'm having a go, cause no one is really putting this camera through its paces. And I'd really like to see some footage that is straight out of the camera & by this I mean ProRes HQ in video mode - lets see what the camera can do on its own & then we can decide when to use Film mode or RAW.

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

I believe the reason for the shaky footage has already been explained.

And Jun Areia does not have to worry about begging for gigs; he’s the founder of the record label that bears his name and quite successful doing what he loves.

Shaky footage is shaky footage & I don't care who you are - it shows a lack of professionalism, there are no excuses for it & is always deemed unacceptable!

And your comments/excuses for him show just how arrogant people in this area are becoming - he wouldn't get or keep a proper gig pulling shit like that....

8 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Maybe we should have a "critics" style blog post where we critique the pros who shoot this crap and maybe give them some tips. The official Nikon Z7 demo reel grade, the John Brawley model outcall sessions, the X-T3 60p stuff, let's help them so they can be better

Some of us have shot professionally & if I had handed in shaky footage like that, I'd probably never get hired again - i've seen it happen,, a lot.

Would love to see someone hold an old school ENG on their shoulder for a whole day!

@Kieran yep, I did notice - still don't really like slow-mo - over used & doesn't really show off what a camera can do.

6 minutes ago, Kieran said:

The purpose of the Dreamcatcher footage was to show how closely the BMPCC4k footage could be graded to match the 'classic' BMD look of the original Pocket or Micro.  Personally I am glad that the shots are quite ordinary so that I can judge them properly.  If it was shot in slow motion at golden hour, it would look cinematic but then nearly everything shot in slow motion at golden hour looks cinematic anyway. The shooter had a Micro mounted on top of the BMPCC4K and that direct comparison footage is supposed to be coming sometime soon.

OK, didn't read that, so might be interesting, but he could have just shot it twice - not as if he was making a narrative piece!  God forbid we get any slow-mo stuff!

What a burst of colour & some of those shots made my jaw drop!

I understand why you stopped doing music videos - my very brief experience was people wanting something for nothing & the hassle you get from armchair filmmakers, especially when they don't want to cough up some money to get what they want.

You could quite easily do a YouTube channel explaining lighting, editing, CC & probably, most importantly the preparation/budgeting side of things as well. You don't have to be an overtly visible presence, but you have all the tools to pass on some knowledge - if that's your thing.

That video gave me a headache...! I don't need to slag it off, it speaks for itself.

Just don't know who BM are after with these films? BM certainly aren't a big camera company, so their market is firmly with really low budget filmmakers (the majority of people here?) but so far I'm distracted by the lack of a professional finish to some things that have been posted. The voice in my head keeps saying "why did you do that" etc. and that is distracting me from going WOW! Maybe that's the strategy, but why not give it to people who are going to stress test it to the max?

Then again, it's better than the last Pocket release - we had one short piece & then loads of people slagging it off once they got it into their hands on it. Just can't see the release of this thing being any different from any of their other camera releases - there will be problems & I'll be surprised if people don't dump it like the last pocket (the battery!?). I'm sure it'll be a good camera for some people, but the majority will not like it & run on to something else or something new.

Why do we need the same video posted 4 times? It's nice, but come on!

16 minutes ago, capitanazo said:

nicee!

i would start looking, here in my country sell t5 has double of the price, so the sdd and enclosure would be awesome.

my only concern its maybe bus powered is a requeriment for record on bmpcc4k and if enclosoure will power it up.

I think only the HDD need external power. And any enclosure that needs external power will have 2 cables coming from it.

I use this wire & the SSD gets powered by the computer:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sabrent-2-5-Inch-Adapter-Optimized-EC-SS31/dp/B014T3JRFM/ref=sr_1_sc_2?tag=macr0e-21&s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1480434478&sr=1-2-spell&keywords=sabremt%2Busb3%2Bto%2Bssd&th=1

It's exactly the same as the T5, so the camera will power the SSD. Be careful of which enclosure you get, as some aren't great & actually slow down the Read/Write rates, which might mean you might not be able to record. Personally, when I get the P4K I am just going to use the SSD without an enclosure & just keep it in a jacket pocket because the SSD is already in a case.

On 9/6/2018 at 1:32 AM, capitanazo said:

Hi, im getting ready to get my bmpcc4k ready for the launch, and im decided that usb-c ssd would be my best alternative for record.

now i got a chance to record with alexa mini, and some red cameras but one of the requeriments is i have is to had 1 ssd at least.

so i was thinking in get some ssd and buy a case to usb-c 3.1 to have the option to use te same ssd for work with the red and alexa cameras and

my bmpcc4k.

so, https://www.amazon.com/Satechi-Aluminum-2-5-inch-Enclosure-Interface/dp/B01FWT2N4E this case can do the work?

its there any other requeriment on bmpcc4k for use usb-c ssd?

Bye!

If you don't mind the size then this will be cheaper than the Samsung T5.

All you need is an enclosure (lots out there so look around, as you might find cheaper & be careful, as you should be getting Read/Write speeds of about 400 min - should be over 500 if it's a good enclosure) & the Samsung SSD 860 evo (has the best TBW or lifespan), there are other brands which might be cheaper. This solution will be cheaper, but bigger than the T5 - that's why the T5 is so much more expensive.

I've gone this way for external storage (also can double as hard drive to boot from), but didn't bother with an enclosure & just got a cable - a lot cheaper & faster read/write speeds than the T5 (mine gets well over 500 for R/W speeds).

This is great news - heads spinning with so many great options that are presenting themselves to us.

13 minutes ago, mercer said:

 And I was thinking about getting the P4K next spring... I guess I’m back to a wait and see with that.

Yep, this is exactly where i am & I like it. Think if they get the 4K working on the 5D, this might be a better option to the P4K as it will take photos too.

6 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

I just googled to check, and yup, I got it wrong! Thanks for pointing that out. 

Am a little surprised then there is no 8bit option whatsoever as a more lightweight / quick turn around / long form option?

The quick turnaround is using ProResLT in Video mode. Why would you want 8bit, it's the past.

I think you're both wrong & for what he was trying to achieve it looks fine - not perfect, but isn't aweful. Yes, he was going for a halfway thing & didn't make a choice, which was my point.

Again, use the P4K with vintage lenses & it shines!

Low light was amazing & I wouldn't worry too much about the sun - the choice was made to see her & blow the sun. You've gotta remember it's the brightest thing you'll ever film & there will always have to be a pay off. There's also nothing wrong with crushing blacks or blowing highlights - it's a modern malady that tries to enforce that you can't do this.

5 minutes ago, mercer said:

This one may be my favorite. The shot at 1:35 looks effin brilliant.

I'm with you there, this shot was great - not too sure about the funky colours for the sunset (colourist's choice).

1 hour ago, mercer said:

@Bioskop.Inc

Do you have any videos online from the Hollywood? That Zeiss pop/micro contrast is specifically what I’m looking for with the ZFs.

I prefer the Super Tak versions, as the SMC aren't really that SMC - I like my coatings to be minimal & Golden.

Unfortunately, I had the Contax Zeiss set before a DSLR that had video capabilities - I was using proper cameras to film back then & the only digital camera that was of any interest was the RED (& it took them ages to release it). I remember the first Nikon DSLR that had video, but it was deemed a bit of a joke add on. No one really seriously thought about using a DSLR to film with back then & Canon released the 5DMk2, which was a real step up & everything changed.

Just not sure if the modern version will be the same as the original Hollywood - it's not just the lens recipe, but the glass used etc. There is that Pentax version, which is meant to be damn close, but that is rare & expensive now - worth keeping a look out (Andrew did a piece about it a few years ago).

I've also been thinking about maybe trying out that Nikon Bourne lens or just going for the Angenieux 35-70mm zoom as it's parfocal. Vintage lens addiction......!

11 minutes ago, mercer said:

I also have a couple of the generic Taks (55mm f/2 and 35mm f/3.5) and I may dig them out to see how they fare with 5D3 Raw B&W... I assume the 35mm will be weirdly special in B&W...

I have 3 or 4, brand new, Fotodiox Pro M42 adapters, so I wouldn’t mind putting together a cheap M42 set. I know the Helios and Jupiter lenses should be no brainers but I’ve never owned any and think they’re the obvious choice, so I am looking for something weirder... maybe Schneider, Meyer or Isco... ever used any of them? I’d also like to get the Chinon 55mm 1.7... I think that lens has a little of a cult following.

The Taks are great & yes the 35mm is just stunning, especially in B&W - I got the 55mm f1.8, which is probably the sharpest vintage lens I've got. All the Taks are great lenses, not a bad one in the set - just choose Super Tak or SMC Tak.

Try the Mir 24m 35mm f2 - it's my favourite 35mm lens & close focus to boot (the M is for M42, whilst the N version is Nikon). Helios 44-2 58mm (might need to buy a few copies to get a good one - if you can get a Zebra version, that seemed to be the best of the bunch for me). The Tair 11a 135mm f2.8 (with too many blades to count) is absolutely stunning. Jupiter 9 or the Helios 40-2 (i'm greedy, so got both) - both dreamy soft wide open, but the Helios has the craziest swirly bokeh of any lens on the planet.

Meyer are great lenses - lots of contrast, lots of colour. The Lydith 35mm f3.5 is a bargin of a lens (normally £30), preset aperture too. The 2 others are the Orestor 100mm f2.8 (aperture at the filter end of lens), which is one of those lenses I will never part with & the 135mm f2.8 Bokeh Monster. Unfortunately I could never find a good copy of one of their 50mm lenses, so I gave up & kept the 35mm & 100mm lenses.

Tomioka made lenses of the 55mm f1.4 are worth a pop - i've got the Chinon version (don't bother with the f1.7, nowhere near the same league).

Here's a good list of M42 lenses (it's focus is not hitting the 5Ds mirror, but is a very comprehensive list for M42 lenses):

https://www.panoramaplanet.de/comp/

Funny you mention the Contax Hollywood lens, as its the only lens I've ever kicked myself for selling - you could buy that & never really need another lens....ever!

15 hours ago, mercer said:

Yup, ai-s Nikkors are great lenses and good investments if you buy the faster lenses. And if you’re patient you can usually find them for deals on eBay. I paid less than $300 for my mint 35mm 1.4 and sold it a year later for $400.

I’m mostly interested in the Zeiss ZFs right now because I just read an article that they’re photo versions of CP.2s. So with Simmod  giving competitive pricing on their mods, you can easily get some cinema quality lenses with the newer T coating for less than a 1/4 the price after the mod. And I don’t use a follow focus, so I would really do the mount change and get them declicked.

But I’m also curious about the Sigma 50mm 1.4. The art version gets better reviews but not that much better than the older EX DG model. With my 5D, I’m looking for a sharp neutral 50 that I can get Push AF for Quick set ups.

Yep, I read that too a few years ago that the CP.2s were rehoused ZFs - the 50mm f1.4 was the first lens I got for the new 60D I bought years ago. I think the Sigma (Art) will probably be sharper wide open, but IMHO it lacks the creamy quality of the Zeiss ZFs - if you like the Zeiss look, then the ZFs are a good modern take & I thought they were great for filming (and you can always sharpen in post).

Also, got to remember that Zeiss have made a ton of great lenses over the years & you don't have to go for the Contax versions. I bought some of the Zeiss Jena MF lenses ages ago & they were really nice & you shouldn't get put off by seemingly underwhelming F stop numbers on MF lenses, as they are brighter than they first appear. This was the article that helped identify which ones to buy: 

https://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/vintage-zeiss-glass-on-modern-cameras/

I'm thinking of going back to MF lenses & in particular the Mamiya Sekor 645 lenses - seen some things filmed on them & they look great. Too many lenses & not enough money to try them all or keep them.

1 hour ago, Snuff said:

Camera: BMPCC
Lens: Tokina 28-70mm f/2.8 + Metabones SpeedBooster XL 0.64 (Nikon F)
Filters: B+W UV-IR Cut, Haida PROII-S Variable ND, Tiffen Black Pro-Mist 1/4
ProRes HQ, Impulz LUT BMDFilm Kodak Vis3 50D 5203 (DP) FC

Really is a great combo - BMPCC & Tokina. I'm Sure the P4K will look great with this lens.

Just hate it when people think you should judge a lens by how well it shoots wide open, utter rubbish!

1 hour ago, Trek of Joy said:

My copies of Tok were soft until about f/4, especially on the wide end. I wish the focus throw was a little longer too. But the CA drove me nuts, so I ultimately moved on. The shot you posted looks good, the issues I had don't show as much.

You make it sound as if you have to stop down the camera loads to get a sharp picture, but to f4 it's only one stop! And you've got to remember it's an oldish lens without all the modern coatings. I've never worried about CA, to me it's like complaining about Moire & Aliasing, just a waste of time - people are too often obsessed with absolute perfection instead of just getting the shot. But it certainly has that Angenieux look, which isn't for everyone. Don't ever try the original as it'll leave you sobbing mess.

1 hour ago, mercer said:

Unfortunately I had to sell it... I had a bad year. 

About once a year I go through my lenses and test a few before I decide which ones are worth keeping and which ones need to go. But I don’t have any “sets” of lenses anymore either... of course I rarely change lenses so a set to me is 2 or 3 lenses in my favorite focal lengths.

Right now I think I’m going to buy another Nikkor 35mm 1.4 and maybe the 85mm 1.4. But I’m really trying to decide if I want to put together a set of Zeiss ZF lenses and have them Leitaxed to EF. I’ve been into B&W a lot lately and supposedly the 35mm f/2 Distagon has insane micro contrast, so I may pick that up, see how I get along with it and decide from there.

Thanks for the links. I rely on the photosynthesis site for Nikkor serial numbers but I haven’t checked out the others. I know some of the history behind ML lenses and they do seem to be a decent, budget alternative to Contax Zeiss. The 50mm f/2 I bought (yes those samples were screengrabs) seems to be an underdog in the ML collection that people keep referencing because they didn’t expect it to be so good, but I have heard that the 1.4 and 1.7 have a more direct lineage to their Zeiss cousins... so I am on the lookout for a 1.4, but for 25 bucks brand new... the f/2 will do for now.

@Bioskop.Inc

The Zeiss ZF's are nice, you can even get them de-clicked for filming. I had the 50mm f1.4, no where near super sharp wide open but took a mean photo & was pretty good for filming. Wasn't there a topic by Rich who mentioned that the Rollei Zeiss lenses were a really good cheap alternative to the Contax versions - worth having a dig around on the forum search.

I had a full set of Contax Zeiss at one point, but needed the money - made quite a bit because of having the full set in mint condition. Can't really go wrong with the Nikon AI-S lenses, just so good for filming. The only full set i've got now is of Russain lenses & i've had them for quite a while - just can't beat their mojo for filming. Well, apart from the Tokina ATX Pro 28-70mm f2.6/2.8, but we're talking an Angenieux recipe lens! Just a shame it isn't parfocal...

Or you could go out an buy the original Angenieux lenses, they made 3: 28-70, 35-70 & 70-210 - pricey though!

I still can't believe people are trying to compare a camera which shot HD with one that shoots 4K. It's like when we moved from SD to HD (here i'm refering to the TV world back then) - all the tests, all the moaning & then the slow realisation that we would have to change the way we did things.

What BM have given us so far are 3 different tests, using 3 different types of lenses & thus gave us 3 different shooting styles. Yes, i thought John's looked the best - lens choice & experience?  But the Balloon film was meant to show off what a Documentary style piece could achieve - there was never a point where I thought it should look cinematic. The Nature piece really showed of the DR in extreme circumstances, but I could really do without ever seeing another piece made with that Sigma zoom, absolutely hate that thing, yuck - if someone gave me one for free, I'd sell it & buy something else. 

I laughed when Frank (over at BMUser) slapped on the Tokina ATX Pro to his BM4.6K last year & it shone - then everyone went scrambling for one. This is a lens we've known about here for ages (thanks to Andy Lee) & how could you go wrong with such a lens - it's an Angenieux recipe lens that screams that cinema feel/image. If you slap on an over sharp modern photography lens, as is, you're going to get that video look in 4K - it's not rocket science. Maybe, just maybe, you might need to really start thinking about what you pair with this camera & stop thinking that it's only the camera.

The recommendation has always been to invest in glass, not camera bodies - that's really where the mojo starts & ends. I wonder what that Nikon "Bourne" lens would look like on the P4K, probably amazing!?

@mercerYes the Yashica ML lenses are very good, but am assuming the posts you made were screen grabs so don't really show off how good they really are - the best 50mm is either the F1.7 or F1.4 & if memory serves me right the F1.7 edged it. Redstan put me onto these, along with a host of other vintage lenses that people reject out of hand.

Here's a good list of all the ML lenses & if you scroll down, you can click on a selection of lenses to see some examples/pictures:

https://cargocollective.com/yashica/About-Yashica-ML-Prime-Lenses

But, the Nikon/Nikkor AI-S lenses really are great, especially for filming & are great paired with anamorphics. Here's the best resources I was recommended - the first link is a resource of Nikon Lens evaluations (they are spot on & have never let me down) & the second is just a list of every vintage Nikon lens made (which has serial numbers/years etc. so you can tell what you are buying):

http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_surv.html#rating

http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/serialno.html#35

Think i've got some Nikon 24mm f2.8 paired with an Iscorama 54 shot on the BMPCC somewhere, think it's the first thing I ever shot on the BMPCC - i'll dig it out. Can't find anything i've shot with the Yashica's, but you can't keep everything - but they were a good cheap compromise to the expensive Zeiss.

So this is the first time I used the BMPCC, no idea I needed an IR Cut etc. Shot ProRes HQ, a couple of tripod shots & the rest is handheld as is (no rig, just holding the camera/lenses).

Nikon 24mm f2.8 & Iscorama54 (with diopters) & no speedbooster -  handheld focus was done by moving in & out whilst looking at the "so-called" crap screen on the BMPCC. They moved the venue at the last moment from a brightly lit room to this dark hole of a place, so the only light sources were the lamp you see, one above & the window (got more light from the window!) - so not ideal!

Really liked the 24mm paired with the Iscorama 54 - shame the venue was so shit!