KahL
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Posts posted by KahL
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I'd love to have this in CS6 though...
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I don't see why anyone would buy or rent a RED right now...sure they win this particular comparison but only by a nose. They desperately need the Dragon project to yield marketable results this year. Slicing their prices in half wasn't enough.
Horses for courses, as Bloom would say.
The Red still has the 4k and beyond resolution advantage and still rules in framerate variety. They're different conversations in features even they don't remain so in visual quality any longer. Canon raw doesn't suddenly rule out any use of the Red camera just because one is more accessible to you than the other.
Seriously.
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I can most definitely attest to the quality of the raw image acquisition. We just finished up a fashion film short based COMPLETELY off of the 50D's DNG RAW capture from Magic Lantern. Now the Directors I'm working with are super enthusiastic about Canon DSLR filming...just so long as CF cards are part of the budgetary plans :)
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Very satisfied with this. An awesome look for low budget indies or to cut alongside higher resolution super35 footage. ML has inadvertently created a super 16 raw frame just from the Digic 4's SD card setbacks. And it's awesome!
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I'm not sure if anyone notices, but I just did a test w/ these files (thanks, Andrew) upscaled to 1920 horiz-pix and the resolution clarity is effectively comparable to super 16mm film! Almost exactly, in fact. The same soft-sharpness. I'll do an upload of the image shortly. This is a FANTASTIC breakthrough!
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I thought DPX was a format used by video editors to transport raw in an uncompressed way from NLE to NLE. That not right? Can anyone clarify? I've never used this format before in my work.
DPX is a mode meant for colorists, not so much for editors. You CAN edit in DPX, but it's not the best idea.
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Close to 15 stops DR in AVCHD comes from a good source, Adam Whit at ProVideoCoalition.
http://www.eoshd.com/content/8332/sony-fs700-the-image-quality-verdict-incredible-14-stops-of-dynamic-range-in-avchd
Even if 14 stops is optimistic by Adam, it isn't hard to put two and two together and imagine raw will give you at least an extra stop of clean detail in the highlights or shadows, maybe both.
DPX is simply a container for raw Kahl.
Well after seeing the recent replies, I don't need to correct you on the DPX comment (especially since I work w/ dpx on a regular basis). However, its fairly obvious that the FS700 isn't 14-15 stops akin to film. Not by a long shot. However, RAW output certainly will give an extra stop of recoverable latitude. -
Key specs -- 1-60fps 4K raw to DPX format
- 120fps 4K raw burst mode
- 240fps 2K raw continuous to Cinema DNG (would love to see the file sizes on that!!)
- Single 3G HD-SDI link
You won't need Sony's own expensive raw recorder for the F5 to get 4K raw on the FS700. The camera firmware will step it up to being able to deliver 4k over a single 3G HD-SDI connection to the affordable Odyssey7Q monitor / recorder.
Read the full article hereThis is confusing. RAW and DPX are two different formats. Either it's to RAW or it's to DPX.
Also where is this report of 15 stops DR? I don't see it anywhere other than on your website here. Also you said that even compressed in AVCHD mode, it was able to film at 15 stops, which just isn't true. Not by a long shot.Any additional links on this?
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So I was wondering how everyone's '12 year went with cinematography as a whole. What I enjoy the most about this is getting a chance to learn from one another, share war stories and most of all, view everyone's reels from the previous 365 days.
I'll start with mine to get things jumping off. I'd love to see everyone else's and the experiences in relation to their work -
Sounds great, but for a 70mm sensor, 4k is WAY TOO small a resolution. That res is reserved for a 35mm sensor. If this is meant to be digital IMAX/65mm film quality, then the resolution should be hitting 10-12k instead. Hopefully a future firmware update will make it so.
Obviously not an indie filmmaker's camera, of course :)
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Very pleased w/ the skin tones for whatever picture style was being used. It's not exactly VisionColor, but very good nonetheless.
I wouldn't call it a "professional" codec though. High bitrate, yes. But 8bit 420 is still 8bit 420 and unfortunately this is the deal w/ the HDMI out :-( Not liking that, but the picture looks good thus far :-) -
[quote name='bradleyg5' timestamp='1347939531' post='18414']
How do you guys know that it's going to be as sharp as the GH2? if it's using a totally different more conventional sensor it could just be soft OM-D quality with a higher bitrate. Still going to need to see some raw footage. Entirely different sensor leads me to question this will be as sharp as the previous camera.
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[url="https://vimeo.com/49558910"]https://vimeo.com/49558910[/url]
Watch the prototype footage. -
After seeing the prototype first shots ungraded [url="https://vimeo.com/49558910"]https://vimeo.com/49558910[/url], NOW I am convinced.
Highlights SEEM on a Canon level finally so far, though I want to see some night time shots w/ street lamps. But, so far looks great. And skin tones seem on point too.
Definitely impressed so far. Take my money! -
[quote name='markm' timestamp='1347872068' post='18306']
1 The GH2 arguably had the best picture well of course it did within the confines of the zacuto challenge 3. It's so annoying when people dont check their facts and run others down. On the Zacuto blind test many picked the GH2 as their favourite. I did. No less than Francis Ford Coppola picked the GH2.[/quote]
You're not making any sense.
The GH2 was arguably said to have the best picture....by a POLL ON NOFILMSCHOOL.COM, not within the documentary. In fact, only a few people chose the GH2 in Ep.2, not "most" as perpetuated here. In Ep.3, what was shown wasn't a superior image, but a sub par image beyond resolution capabilities.
The "blind test" wasn't really blind at all because it was the result of re-lighting AND heavy post correction. In other words, it was misleading.
[quote name='markm' timestamp='1347872068' post='18306']2) As for the grading SO WHAT. The test was to see who could get the best picture and ALL cameras got the same chance or are you saying it was unfair in favour of the GH2.[/quote]
No, this isn't what I said nor insinuated. What I am saying is that the hyperbole in the GH2's favor for Ep.2 (not Ep.3) was overblown. Maybe the result of "little man complex", who knows.
[quote name='markm' timestamp='1347872068' post='18306'] 3)You admit resolution was okay and then have an opinion NOT FACT An opinion by the way that far more professional people completely disagree with.[/quote]
By "far more", who are you referring to? The Zacuto staff? The theater attendees? They don't support your argument as maybe only 3-4 chose "B"/GH2. Or are you referring to the nofilmschool.com poll results? Be more specific and less dramatic.
[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1347870528' post='18303']
More like it was perpetuated by people misunderstanding the article and all the words.
Misinterpreting information is very common.
At no point did I say on the blog that the GH2 was technically superior to an Alexa, Epic or F65 in the Zacuto shootout.
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No, but what you DID do was create more hyperbole by using Coppola's name to give credibility to the GH2 being a superior image. When in fact it was heavily corrected (how many windows were needed again?) footage to the point of not even being GH2 footage any longer. Coppola chose an image that he liked, this is true. However it wasn't a "native" image, it was severely changed.
Now no one is saying there is anything wrong w/ fixing in post. At the lower levels, we all have to do so. However by the way you made it sound, the GH2 was able to hang w/ the bigger boys by default. You even used the headline:
[b] "Francis Ford Coppola and majority prefer Panasonic GH2"[/b]
Which was completely untrue; only a few people did within the 2012 documentaries.
[u]THAT was hyperbole and misleading.[/u] -
[quote name='markm' timestamp='1347796698' post='18238']
The GH2 on the Zacuto challenge had arguably the best picture of the lot. Albiet within its confines Now that must mean resolution and colour rendition work well. As for its limitations you have to make sure exposure is set right to get great images.and it's 4.2.0 8 bit BUT thats at the bit rate and various settings emplyed by Driftwood lpowell etal
The GH3 has a lot to live up to and you might find good and bad like Improved low light less banding issues that could come with less resolution no crop mode and colour rendition that is not as good as the GH2. The GH2 is a form of open architecture for experts like Vitaliy and who knows what else could come from this. The GH3 will almost certainly be closed.
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No it did not and that bit of strong misinformation was further perpetuated by this site as well.
The GH2 had a [u]HUGE [/u]amount of grading only surpassed by the iPhone and scene re-lighting to compensate for its small DR. The actual default image (shown in Ep.3) wasn't very good at all beyond resolution detail really.
I'm curious to see what the "wide dynamic range" capability actually is with this newer model though. The colors are a big turn off for me, so maybe that's a saving grace beyond deluded fandom support :-/ -
[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1347751913' post='18177']
The skin tones look awful because you're watching a 7Mbit stream. That is one hell of a compression!
Wait for Monday and hopefully Philip will be able to turn on the download option.
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lul wut? Did you really just say that?
Skin tones won't improve in color by that much from a 7Mbps stream to a 10Mbps one. They'll have more clarity, but the tones and color are the tones and the color. Maybe this is a post issue. But, Panasonic doesn't have a good reputation for skin tone rendering as far as I've known. Ever.
Post work doesn't count. You can make almost anything look great in post w/ enough time and technique applied. -
[quote name='peederj' timestamp='1347733755' post='18153']
Everything I dislike about the GH2 remains on display. Those people look so green it's as if they are half-lizard. The color science is more like color fraud.
Sorry if I have insulted your baby. But look at the lovely use of color in Reverie in comparison...sure we see the macroblocking and aliasing today, but at least the thing doesn't make me wretch.
Bruce Logan's color work in the Zacuto shootout 3rd episode was stellar. This is the camera, not those professionals.
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+1 on this.
Skin tones look like urine. Not a big fan of this output one bit :-( -
422 and more than 10stops DR from the sensor. Beyond that, it's almost the same as the last one. Only w/ more hardware inputs, really :-/
Here's to hoping it has these features. -
[quote name='madaspy' timestamp='1346463425' post='17058']
Hey guys, I wanted to chime in on this BMC discussion.
As a hobby I shoot documentaries mainly on geek and nerd culture, and professionally I create motion graphics and color correct. I will focus on the documentary side of what I do.
The other day my co-worker and I were marveling over the idea of working raw. But then I started thinking about the disk space issue.
For my last documentary I created, I shot about 13.5 hours for a 22 min product. Those that create documentaries typically have a very high shooting ratio, and while I want to shoot raw it is really cost prohibitive for me. I was crunching the numbers and here is how they break down:
I shot 267 GB with my 7D which comes to be about 13.5 hours of content.
In Prorez 422 1.22 TB
Raw 6.9bTB
When I crunched the numbers I had a hard time justifying the the space required for what I do if I shoot in the raw format. I think the one thing that users will need to think about is the data rate. It looks like the data rate for raw will be about 145MB/s which is near the theoretical limit of a single 7200rpm hard drive. So that moves you in to the RAID territory and the expense that one of those systems entails.
For companies who shoot single camera cinematic style where projects are scripted, and acted, I think raw is the next logical step. For long form corporate or documentaries then raw will be tough at least for now. 2 years from now then it will be a bit easier to swallow as long as SSD get cheaper and hard drives also become cheaper.
As for my personal projects, I know for a fact that I will be shooting ProRez/DnxHD, because It is a good compromise between quality and disk space.
[url="https://vimeo.com/user745412"]https://vimeo.com/user745412[/url]
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Great points here. -
The answers are simple.
A. people claiming that RAW is unecessary haven't worked in RAW before. Ask professional photographers if they'd rather work in jpeg mode for serious projects rather than RAW. The reaction will be awesomely fun to watch.
B. people claiming RAW is unecessary are used to the investment they've put into their current camera and unless they gain access to a RAW camera workflow outside of coming out of their own pockets, will downplay its benefits to protect the "integrity" of their own purchased gear.
C. they're flat out lazy.
Most people who HAVE worked in RAW on a regular basis don't even have these problems/gripes. They simply see it as the advantageous choice. Prores/DNxHD are quick options for fast turnarounds and less important projects. Much like the jpeg option in your DSLR for stills. :) -
Sony's DSLR being an Alpha mount does kind of suck. Rather stick to the Nex N body w/ E-mount.
As far as the GH3 is concerned, the codec upgrades are great. But if it still has that video-y look and limited DR, it's nearly the same as the GH2 hacked, really. -
[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1342451451' post='13963']
KahL - "Hyperbole". No, it is factual info actually, and my preferences as a filmmaker are based on real experience. Do you have anything solid at all to backup your highly personal argument with? So far, not seeing it, as you head closer and closer to the door.
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You seem to use the words "fact" a bit loosely here for some odd reason.
The only "fact" is that yes, you can get a strong image from the GH2 for its price. What is NOT a fact is that the GH2 can hang with the big boys [of this shootout] with its image. Only after huge lighting modifications are added and major post work has been done can it do so. Even the twin DPs admitted this BEFORE and DURING the shoot. Why can't you?
And you can save the "...to the door" comment. I'm sorry if you feel this is personal, but calling someone out for something they do PUBLICLY is not "personal".
On a more positive note, Musgo looks gorgeous to me. -
[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1342445067' post='13955']
What is your point again? Frustrating. None of them make any sense. You're claiming I'm flip flopping when I'm not. You're either not reading what I'm saying or choosing to twist it. You're [b]using too much personal stuff [/b]in the post as well so cut it out or you will get a ban. I've sent you a warning, so calm down or lose access.
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Next time you claim someone is two years behind, keep that in mind. No apologies for calling it like I see it. You are indeed a GH2 fanboy. It's hardly personal. It's what you express: hyperbole and zealot behavior.
Banning me won't change it (and actually, the majority perception of your behavior and site everywhere else either).
'nuff said.
A more realistic impression of the Sony A7S low light performance at ISO 12,800
In: Cameras
Posted
No it isn't and never was.
The FS700 was never factually rated at 14 stops (i.e. film), or else more Cinematographers would've used it by now. Instead it's used as more of stop gap between DSLRs and the bigger digi-cinema bodies (Red, Alexa, F5, etc.). THOSE camears are rated between 13 and 14 stops.
I've seen A LOT of tall claims on this forum from you guys about your cameras being 13-14 stops with zero discernible proof beyond personal claims. Factually, the FS700 has anywhere from 11-12, just like the FS100 did and so does the GH4.
The gross exaggerations from you guys are ridiculous. I understand that you need to justify your purchases to yourselves (and to one another, akin to hardware posturing), but let's at least keep clean perspectives and refrain from....lying.