HurtinMinorKey

eyes is gonna wait for the 1000 dollah reduck tion on der black magic pocket camera next year after they anonce the new pocket replacement for der old pocket camera dat came out 2 days before the annocement of the new pocket camera.
how can you complain wid next years pocket reducktion they will be paying you a dollar to take the camera from them that has to be a good deal yes no.

dis company are firing on all sillinders at der moment.
nobody beats dere melting sensorers.
der owner of der company is not overweight he is thin and allways keeps his custumers up to date wid intel on new up and coming products
avaiuuble n 2 years time.
 
as budda once said grass hopper nice obsolete things come to those peeple dat wait
stop der hate it nevver been betteror time to make test films of traffic.
chill and sing the bm corporate song
 
 
remememberor kids hd camras come and go a ducky is for life

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc5T06SsnkA

First off, I think this is great. What a deal for this camera.
 
As an economist, i'm trying to understand how this move fits into BMD's overall strategy. This is what I've come up with: Just a few months ago, the BMCC was supply constrained, so they announce the BMPC and the Pocket Camera to take some pressure off the BMCC. Now it appears that the pocket camera is supply constrained (and the BMPC will be too), so they drop the price of the BMCC, because it's now available.
 
Just a theory, and probably not 100% of the story, because I'm sure RAW on the 5D3 factored in there somewhere too, but it seems like a strategy to try and limit the frustration with the BMD supply chain SNAFU.
 
But either way, BMD is really putting it to the Asian manufacturers. I'm sure the Ninja assassins are sharpening their katana blades and catching the next boat to Australia as we speak.

First off, I think this is great. What a deal for this camera.
 
As an economist, i'm trying to understand how this move fits into BMD's overall strategy. This is what I've come up with: Just a few months ago, the BMCC was supply constrained, so they announce the BMPC and the Pocket Camera to take some pressure off the BMCC. Now it appears that the pocket camera is supply constrained (and the BMPC will be too), so they drop the price of the BMCC, because it's now available.
 
Just a theory, and probably not 100% of the story, because I'm sure RAW on the 5D3 factored in there somewhere too, but it seems like a strategy to try and limit the frustration with the BMD supply chain SNAFU.
 
But either way, BMD is really putting it to the Asian manufacturers. I'm sure the Ninja assassins are sharpening their katana blades and catching the next boat to Australia as we speak.

I think the price was too close to the 4K camera...
 
The 4k camera offers not only increased resolution, but also a s35 sensor size (very welcome) and compressed raw (much more manageable files), two serious downsides to the original camera, so I guess that with price tags of $3k vs $4k, the "old" camera would not seem that appealing anymore. The new price tag separates it into a different segment and now the 3 different models all have their own place in the market. Definitely $2k is a great price, even $2500 would have been great!
 
For owners bitching about the price drop, they need to know this is what happens, it's how it goes! People keep complaining that camera makers are not giving them all they could, keeping features out and inflating prices with tiny updates, but when someone has the balls to make a price cut like this and actually offer the technology as cheap as they possibly can, then their own personal interests come up and they quickly point the finger and feel ripped off. It's evolution, deal with it!
 
I also don't think this affects the Pocket camera, I never saw them as competing products, if anything, the pocket camera is still a better choice, as the sensor size matches the mount better, you can use 16mm glass, you get an active mount and you get compressed raw.
 
Now they just need to add compressed raw to the BMCC.
(Audio levels on ALL camera models would be great too, but it seems to be asking for too much, they'll probably release a 6k camera for $500 before that happens :)  )

I will say this, as I'm sure there will be people who are infuriated.  If you look at this as a Kickstarter campaign, you essentially crowdfunded a company's first camera. $2995 would get you a camera before everyone else (yes even with all the shipping problems).  A few friends of mine have received there's.  In truth they said to me, it's a little annoying, but hey, we have our cameras and that's the price of being one of the first owners even if they did come late. Anyway on kickstarter campaigns, as we know, there are great products and when one invests in a product, you will pay the price for it. 
 
This goes with virtually any product on the market.  Apple should make us all very familiar to this process. Heck I paid nearly $6000.00 for their Mac Pro bundle in 2006, and the price steadily dropped to the point where you can have the same specs in a freakin' Macbook Air for $999 today. Back to my Kickstarter campaign analogy.  Many times when a small company tries to get its foot in the door on making a new product we all want and could not afford before, many of us will invest with that company and try to be among the first.  Problems happen.  Some kickstarters never even come to full fruition but many, usually end up delivering later than anticipated. 
 
Let's take Defygimbal or Besteady for example. These two companies are creating the best competition to Freeflysystems ridiculously overpriced (like Canon)MōVI. In order for these companies to get their feet off the ground, sometimes you still have to pay a price to do it that may be pricier than you thought it would be. Defy's $2300 Gimbal only gets you 2 lbs of weight capacity.  But know what? It works and works well!! Once you figure in the cost of materials and what it takes to build it than it becomes understandable.  And then Besteady's first product is priced at $600 more but for that price you get nearly 4lbs of weight capacity. 
 
Maybe in the future when more people buy these products these will drop in price as well. It's the cost we pay of being the first in line.  It's just many of us were used to being so darn upset at Blackmagic that all we can do is get mad.  I still say, if they make us upset, fine but we have a decision on whether or not to purchase products through this company or the next. It's still an uphill battle. They're fighting against Canon, Nikon, Sony, and RED but all these company's are arrogant, and have a right to be. They've had decades of establishing themselves as industry leaders. But tell me this, name any other company that offers 3 cameras who all produce a RAW image, one is 1080p, one is 2.5k and the top of the line is 4k with global shutter and super 35 for $1000, $2000 and $4000 and offer the industry leading color correction program for free with two of those offerings?  I have been rooting for these guys from the beginning and now for $2000.00 you can own a proper 2.5k camera? Could they be improved with aliasing and moire, telling you the battery life, letting you delete your clips in camera, telling you how much ssd room you have left? yes a million times over yes, but if this is their first offering of cameras, I hope they eventually get to the point in the next 2 years of seriously disruping the market.  Canon's C300 is way over priced and so is their 1DC, but hey people will pay for it because it's a sure thing.  Now you can get 4k raw with globaal shutter for $4k.  I hope we can say , TAKE THAT CANON! (maybe a sub $10k C300 price drop in the near future?) We shall see. I love the free market for this reason.  Competition is good.  Let's enjoy it. We who buy these products are investors who want these guys to succeed. There WILL BE moments that anger us. Let it be what it is.  Don't forget even Apple has had huge shipping delays on their products that are unexpected.  I'm not looking to compare the two companies. I'm just saying, this company, Blackmagic Design, is changing the game for us Indy filmmakers and this is an exciting time for us.  We used to have to kill ourselves and go into severe debt to get in the game. Not anymore. 

Looks nice.
 
Great to see someone put 2 years of effort into an iPhone app rather than 2 minutes worth :)
 
Either Apple will buy his code, or the will simply put an embedded JPEG processor in the next iPhone and a faster camera module. 20fps burst modes with electronic shutter are already possible even in smartphones.

Would people be happier with Apple's policy? Not tell anyone anything until the units are in the store?

It just comes down to what you need... A Rig is a whole different thing than a steadicam. The same goes for a slide for example. If you dont use/need all of them, dont buy them just because you could eventually use them some day and it might come in handy one day in one situation...
Nevertheless, the rig I bought, because I just felt I needed it ( ;) ) is the Gini Rig Extreme 17. You will get a lot of bang for your buck! The quality is quite impressive for the money (I paid around 500$) and you have a follow focus that works quite good, included.
I also own a Steadicam HD 2000, which is more than enough for dslr work! Its not that expensive and does its job just fine! Just make sure to get some kind of quick release plate for it (that also sits on top of your tripod and rig!!!), as the srewing, unscrewing can be a real PITA!
 
Hope that helped :)

Based on how they've allowed the situation to be (mis)handled, and by not showing any leadership, I now tend to think they are very disorganized as a business overall. If they were being deceitful I think there would be a more unified method and voice, albeit one based on trickery. Instead, by letting chaos reign and different voices proliferate, they seem to have no idea how to make this happen. I sense goodwill on their part for sure, otherwise why the incredible price point? But, I also sense an odd combination of idealism and youthful ADD spread rampant through the company, so to speak, which is threatening to undermine their whole project in total.

The flip side is I'm glad they aren't like Apple yet. I'll take waiting for a well speced affordable product rather than one that is overpriced and underperforms...and that's coming fron an Apple user. Apple has shifted to 'giving us less' as a business model. At least BMD, with their similar appreciation for aesthetics, is trying to give you more for less. Their idealism is their best quality. They are making a mess of things like a child would, but at least there are good intentions. Hopefully, they can release a few good cameras in quantity before their business model gets seduced into the demands of the corporate world a la Apple.

Would people be happier with Apple's policy? Not tell anyone anything until the units are in the store?

What makes you think they haven't been produced yet? My guess is that they are waiting on the firmware, and that thousands of units are already produced.

If B&H is overflowing with Pocket Cameras, then why aren't they telling people that? That would be a strange choice, considering their goal is to make money by selling cameras.

Talking with my dealer, he said his Dist can't give a definitive date and there's a huge back log so he doesn't think he'll see one till late Aug or even September. As far as b&h is concerned I'm figuring BM gave them a tease to appease their customer base to buy some Time. Could be mistaken but Wooden camera had one to show off their new pocket camera rig but didn't include any footage, I found that pretty strange. Thanks

Look, the FUBAR situation with the BMCC was in some sense forgivable considering the enormity of what BMD was trying to do at the time: They were going into uncharted territories, competing with companies that are literally 100X if not 1000X their size.
 
But now that BMD has been through all this once before, significant delays with the new cameras, without reasonable forewarning,  will make it seem more like a corporate philosophy of deception, and less like a poor upstart learning the hard way.

It will be a real shame if they don't manage to ship in time, specially since they said the cameras were shipping for sure in July. hopefully it will only be a month or 2 of delay. The amount of people that had canceled 2.5k pre-orders, or even forgot about them is quite bad. A lot of people stopped caring a long time ago.
 
On a positive note, I've been collecting bmcc footage for quite some time now and the footage that comes out of this camera is truly amazing and can be very cinematic.
So this is what keeps me going, and makes me think the wait will be worth it. I am getting a pocket camera by the way, 1st in the queue ;)

I tend to agree. But at the same time i wonder, are the movies actually getting worse, or are we just getting older?

First of all, I must say I am a big fan of Lynch's films
 
However, Hollywood producers are really really tired of David Lynch this type of arrogant directors.
In fact, there are a lot of reasons to dislike him, he's arrogant, non-marketable with freaky personality. What's worse, his projects flopped way too often.
 
If you are so full of yourself and think your movies are greater than most hollywood directors. Just take your shots at those blockbuster scripts and make a fortune of yourself first. 
 
Do you actually think Christopher Nolan likes to direct Batmans that much instead of working for his own written pieces? 
The reality is, you need money to run your art forms, sir.
 
"In this world, you gotta make the money first
when you got the money, you got the power 
then when you got the power, you got whatever films made"

/* I guess I'm an irrepressible optimist that thinks the Internet is the solution to fraud. And nervy enough to do my part. Here we have a company that's doing exactly the same thing two years in a row and people still eating it up. */
 
No, you're an irascible twat who has absolutely nothing positive to say about damn near anything.  I still have yet to see evidence of fraud, but I do see lots of evidence of a company that vastly underestimated production issues on what was to be a flagship product.  You may not like it (and it's not something I'd wave around with pride if I were BM), but it's not like they're getting paid for selling unshipped units, otherwise we'd be seeing a ton of lawsuits, especially in lawsuit-happy-America.  What do you want them to do, come lay prostrate before the mighty PederJ and beg for your personal forgiveness?  Give me a break.  You don't trust BM?  Then don't buy a BM.  I don't think there's a single person here who isn't aware of the massive issues BM has with their first foray into the digital cinema camera space.  And yet, the fact that many of us are willing to give them a second chance on an upcoming product seems to infuriate you so much that you have to shit on every thread that even dares to show any sort of excitement for something we haven't seen yet, much less released.  It's irritating and tiring and frankly, go find another thread to shit up.  
 
/* Meanwhile the Japanese giants the net.commentariat is determined to discredit at every opportunity just continue to quietly ship products on time that work and need no scheming or hype. Slower to roll out advanced formats and codecs perhaps, but turning a blind eye to the hackers enabling them on their hardware. */
 
The only "net commentariat" conspiracy you see is one you've built for yourself.  I swear, the entire internet is here to make pederj buy something he doesn't want and to "Shut Me Up!"  Oh NOES!  No, PederJ, you are welcome to your opinions, but we all know what they are.  Please, move along. Hell, many of us OWN cameras from those same "Japanese Giants we conspire against."  I happen to own a Panasonic, with access to my fellow filmmaker's Canons and Sony NEX cameras, for example.  I am really eager to see what the BMPCC can do and if it ships and meets MY (not your) expectations, I'll be happy to add it to my arsenal.  If it comes out and it doesn't, I won't buy one.  It's not rampant fanboyism, or determined denialism or whatever else you wish to attribute it to.  It's simply NOT HAPPENING as you have envisioned it.  It's in your head.  There is no conspiracy.
 
/* You have conceded the argument when you resort to ad hominems or simply tell or force your opponent to "shut up."  */  
 
I'm not conceding anything except the fact that you're a fucking moron.

So i finally caved and bought a BMCC (it arrived today), now i need to get a desktop to tame the beast. I've gone back and forth between Mac OS and Windows(I own both already), and I've finally decided on going with Windows for my workstation. It was a close call, but at the end of the day the the price/power of a WIN desktop won over the ease of use Mac.
 
Here are the specs:
ASUS P9X79 WS Sealed Liquid Cooling Systems Overclocked Intel Core i7 3930K 4.0GHz - 4.2GHz LGA 2011 Hex-Core Processor (12MB L3 Cache) 850 Watt Corsair TX850M Single 4GB EVGA GTX 680 Genuine MS Windows 7 Ultimate 64-Bit Edition 240GB Intel 520 Series 2X 3TB SATA 6.0Gb/s, 7200RPM, 64MB Cache 12X Blu-ray (BD) Disc Combo (Reads BD and Writes to DVD/CD) (No DVD/Blu-ray Playback Software Included)  
Anyone with last minute suggestions, please chime in.

I'd say we don't see the BMPC until the Fall, but when we do see it, I think it will be provided in ample quality. You have to figure that BM has learned something from their go-around with the BMCC.
 
 
 
Yah, because there are soooo many better options out there for the price.... :lol:.
 
Wouldn't trade mine for anything, and I had to wait all of 4 days to get it.  Of course other people have had horror stories, and i'm sure there are some people out there who prefer the 5D3 hack to owing a BMCC, but let's not pretend that the BMCC's been made obsolete before it ever got off the launch pad. That honor has been reserved for the c500.
 
 

A consequence of trying to get all the sky/clouds without clipping. If he brought the light on his face too much, i bet we'd see a bunch of noise.
 
Nice job, Olof.

It's so much fun pushing your buttons peedrj.
 
But in all honesty, I can only compare my BMCC footage to my Wife's 5D3 in stills mode. To my eyes, the BMCC DR advantage is pretty apparent when shooting in bright sunlight.

It's so much fun pushing your buttons peedrj.
 
But in all honesty, I can only compare my BMCC footage to my Wife's 5D3 in stills mode. To my eyes, the BMCC DR advantage is pretty apparent when shooting in bright sunlight.

It may not even be that complicated. Could be if you download it to a 1D-X it magically becomes a 1D-C.

http://www.canon-europe.com/Support/Consumer_Products/products/cameras/Digital_SLR/EOS-1D_C.aspx?type=important&faqtcmuri=tcm:13-1052896
 
"Customers who wish to update EOS-1D C to Firmware Version 1.2.0 are requested to bring their cameras to our authorised service facilities."
 
Someone doesn't want someone to have access to their firmware upgrade files... :)