Ernesto Mantaras

​Better

14-bit colour is nicer than 8-bit colour
 
raw looks nicer than 4:2:0
 
5D3 highlight rolloff is smoother, there's more dynamic range. It's great in low light.
 
however
 
5D3 raw requires huge fast memory cards that are expensive, lots of fast hard-disk space that's very expensive
 
5D3 raw requires long-winded workflow with various awkward workarounds as it's not Red-style compressed raw
 
add to that the GH4s 4K and GH4 is a much more sensible choice for most shooters out there.
 
If final image quality at all costs is what's needed, the 5D3 raw is beautiful... for student film, for example, or personal project. Place any real-world restrictions on it and it's harder to get away with when all's said and done.
 
I've seen some amazing 5D3 raw films, but I think far more work will actually be done with GH4.
 
It's an indie film-maker's dream!

The sensor readout is much faster on the GH4, by 50%. But 400% more data coming off the sensor, that isn't enough to compensate. Audio issue is a non-issue as far as I'm concerned. Who shoots video with audio in stills mode? That's what the movie mode is for!
 
AF is of no interest to me either.
 
The soft video in VFR mode, well treat it as a creative bonus tool... You could pay $15k for a camera today, and not even get 60p! (C300)

There goes my dreams of ghost hunting with this camera. Going to be a lot of leaning Slimers in the frame.
 

I'd love to see a win version ;)

I don't know what it is, but I prefer the flat profile on the GH4 almost more than any grades I've seen.

Nice find!

Looks like Blackmagic brought these guys aboard...
 
 

From my week long experience with shooting GH4, dynamic range is at least a match for the 5D Mark III raw.

Nice!
 
Colours look natural. Wow what a difference. New slogan for GH4 - "I can't believe it isn't raw!"

You're making it sound only about the lens. What about the nut behind the camera!?
 
The 18-35 is very nice, almost as sharp as the Cookes.

Actually didn't Red have 4K with the Scarlet around 1D C prices way before Canon launched their 1D C circa $13k?
 
And it isn't old technology. The 1D C is based on the 1D X and that is bang up to date. There's no newer or better Canon tech out there.

Old rule of thumb, to get the best bang and performance for your buck, hold-off buying gear until 1, you have a big project ready to go on the horizon, and 2, the platforms and workflows are reasonably understood, tested and stable. 
 
This worked for me when Andrew detonated the GH2 on the scene and craftily paired it with vintage anamorphic glass. I am now very happily (and gratefully) editing a feature with some beautiful ProRes footage transcoded from the GH2 source. A top pro colorist here in SF has no problems, and reasonable latitude, working with our 8 bit ProRes 422 HQ.
 
A year from now, 4K production and post should be stable for we mortals who live to make movies. And yes, I think 4K 10bit should be amazing...

I was trying to keep them all to four letters, dammit! :D But I think BMPCC is probably better (and certainly used more), you win.

Monday.

Sure, let me clear this up for you.
I read all you comments and, to start clearing things up, I perhaps was confused by your key words to read, which got contradicted when you mentioned that "the 5D3 at 1920 x 720 looks more appealing to me than the BMC piece at 1920 x 1080(which is being streamed as of right now).", since the streamed version was 720p at the time you commented this (and at the time I mentioned that you had watched a 720p file if you only watched the streamed version). So did you actually watch the streamed version at 720p or the original uploaded file at 1080p. To see the answer, jump over the next paragraph.

But, since you were being condescendent to me, let me clear this bit up for you first: Vimeo only converts to 1080p by request of the user and only if he/she is a Plus or Pro member. Do you know what that means? It means Vimeo tries to save bandwidth (and perhaps take care of the users with lesser machines that maybe can't play 1080p right). Well, that's speculation on my part. But you don't care what Vimeo does. So let me tell you: did you know there's a little button to the left of the "full screen" button on the Vimeo player that allows you to see the real pixels (only when you're in full screen, mind you)? Thanks to that you can see whether or not the user who uploaded the video has upgraded it to 1080p or not. James hadn't at the time you started all this (and you could also tell by looking at the download options). But you can tell whether or not a video is 720p or 1080p, right? I mean, since we're coming from 4K, it should be pretty obvious.
Yet, again, the BMPC video at the time of discussion was being streamed at 720p (1280x720 that is) and the 5D video was being streamed at 1080p (1920x720 is 1080p cropped, you see) and you didn't notice there was an obvious difference that could very well be due to Vimeo's de facto system? Oh, right, you don't care what Vimeo does. So why argue?

No argument then. It's enough to just take a look at the pictures you uploaded in >this post, comparing the BMPC video and the 5D video, saying how bad the first one was, how soft and all... You see, that pic tells you off. It comes from a 720p video, even if the file's resolution is 1920x1080. So indeed you were comparing a 720p video next to a 1080p video (and not the 1080p originals like you're trying to make us believe you did) and saying the first one looked soft. Well, of course!

Just to be clearer still, here's your grab next to the current 1080p upgraded streaming version of the BMPC video. You're welcome.
 
 
 
Sorry for my tone, but I don't like being condescended. Your statement was confusing and I thought your opinion on the resolution of the BMPC made no sense, so it had to be that (according to the second part of the conflicting paragraph) you had watched the streamed 720p version of the video to arrive to such conclusion, and not the originally 1080p uploaded file. You confirmed my suspicion with your posted framegrab and still you you denied it and talked down on me. Why not have a little self-criticism?

Now we go back to discussing dynamic range, tonality, grading and all that.

Cheers!

Any workflow which can downsample 4K to 1080p at 10-bits or more should be able to produce 9-bit 444 RGB. It won't be full 10-bit as the chroma was only 8-bit, however the luma mixed in with chroma when converting to RGB will be 10-bit, so really more like 9-bit at the end of the day.

Not to mention they are comparing 720p streaming on Vimeo, when they should be comparing the 4K prores to 5D's 1080p raw.
 
Madness!

It would be great if someone with access to a Canon 1D C tested this.
 

To be exact I think it's 2.17x in 4096 and 2.33x in 3840.
 
In order words the 4096 x 2160 DCI 4K mode is 17% smaller than the sensor area used in 16:9 1080p mode.

Good point, but I can take my BMPCC, with my Honu cage, and my Alphatron evf, and get great focussing and monitoring, as well as recording a very high quality 1080 10-bit image in the camera. You'll be able to put a cage around the GH4, and attach an Atomos Ninja, and get a very crisp 1080 10-bit image recorded to that.
 
They'll both take up about the same amount of space, neither will pass as stealth or even low-key particularly. The difference is, I don't need to spend a dollar more - I can do it today.
 
I applaud Blackmagic for providing us the opportunity to take great images cheaply, and for kicking the bigger guys up the arse.
 
I applaud Panasonic for putting this option out there - but seriously, internal recording 10-bit, 422...

GH4 priced as 1499 euros im cameranu.nl website
http://www.cameranu.nl/nl/digitale-cameras/panasonic/micro-ft-camera/panasonic-dmc-gh4-systeemcamera-body/h259_2053_461544

Sigma 18-35mm on the GH3 is fine. It only vignettes on the oversized mutli-aspect sensor on the GH2. That's a 1.86x crop. It is right at the limit on the GH3 but holds up well even at 18mm.
 
Yes I agree on 30p to 24p - it doesn't quite work :)
 
However I must admit to not hating 30p quite so much as I used to. The reason is not HFR in cinemas, or having watched too much 60p and got used to it, or something! The reason is that 30p suits the stabiliser on the E-M1, it makes handheld work look buttery smooth. On a tripod I still prefer 24p.

Cool! Congratulations, Andrew! I'd love to do a new piece for the contest but I don't know if I'll have the time. I'll do my best to get something new out of the door soon, though.

Still I wonder, does this qualify as "no more than 25%" of CGI in the film?

That's a ridiculous notion.

The Sony PROduction Awards is a short film competition, and a chance to get your work noticed and win some pretty nifty Sony gear. Filmmakers from around the world will be pitted against each other and go up against a judging panel which includes myself, Andrew Reid of EOSHD, Shane Hurlbut ASC, Philip Bloom, BAFTA winning dramatist Tony Marchant and others!

Enter your film now at the PROduction Awards competition website or read on for more details...

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