Astro

​Yep...I found Cine-D to be not much good for skintones, it has an orange crayfish type of look, but even without LOG the Gh4 is capable of nice skintones...with a modified Portrait or Natural setting, skin actually looks nice and realistic.

Noise? I have had the camera for ages...and yeah in real low light, with something like iDynamic pushed it can produce some grunge, but other than extreme situations I havent had a problem with noise, and I have shot a lot of footage at night, most of it really clean...and this is at 800 to1600 ISO with a 1.7 AP...no problems at all.

So with an even faster lens or speedbooster...the GH4 should be able to shoot great footage in 95% of situations, its one of those things thats become a little bit of a beatup.

Other than that I hope they do a good job on the LOG profile...its a competitive market, and Panansonic has been in there with the GH1-GH2 etc...they dont want to drop the ball now.

I am basically interested in the firmware update for the GH4.

Reading thru the various forums and comments online and the vid on youtibe, 90% of those comments are either unimpressed or negative.

Admittedly the C300 was not that well received and it found a solid market, but that was a different market and that was then, this is now and its competitors NX1, GH4 A7s offer a lot more for less, and tjhat seems to be the main response to this Camera...time will tell tho I guess, but personally I would not even consider one.

I'll stick with my GH4.

​LOL!! Excellent response!!

​Yep agreed... I cant say why, but I have never warmed to the A7s look.... I was gonna buy one a while back to use with my GH4, but the image just doesnt do anything for me at all.

Obviously others love it, but hey we all have different tastes

I'll stick with my trusty GH4...for now, its plenty versatile, and gives me great results.

An inbuilt ND filter would be nice tho.

​That is totally hilarious!! Laughed long and hard!!

Well I guess its what appeals to you at a certain point.

I only own a GH4 and a couple of other cams, not the A7s...but as the A7s in full frame although smooth at ISO 3200, it is certainly not smooth when you move it, everyone knows that it has really bad rolling shutter at full frame, you really need to use it at APS-C if you want to move the camera at all.

So it depends where your smooth priorities lie...smooth movement or smooth ISO.
All the talk of cinematic full frame on the A7s really means it has to be on a tripod and still to get that happening.

Plus there are lots of posters on DVX-user that own both cams as well as the EOS-C line of Canons that really like the GH4 and appear to use it more than the A7s because its more convenient and they get good results, many of them cutting with Reds and EOS-C cams...so it doesn't really matter, maybe to Andrew, but not so much to others.
I agree with most of rygenovas post...at the end of the day no average watcher is going to go WOW!! at an A7s piece of footage and not so WOW at a GH4 piece of footage.
Doesnt mean I dont want to see V-Log on the GH4...I do, but for me, its more than I need right now and if I cant produce good results with it, then I probably need to give up.

Those guys at Cinema 5d definitely do some tests that are not at all correct and they deserve any criticism they get ( a lot of it).

For example when they tested the GH4 in that dynamic range test...they use -5 -5 on everything pretty much and the master pedestal cranked to +15 ...thats ridiculous!!

Its far better to keep everything at zero or close to zero for Cine D, otherwise use Standard or natural, I found that out after many shoots, this is also reported by Joseph Moore that Andrew quoted, and many are now coming to this realization and getting great results.

Also its far better to use the highlight and shadow curves in a subtle way to get the proper spread of light in your footage and thereby affecting the dynamic range in real world terms.

The good news is I dont really need the Atomos Shogun with this cam, whereas if I had an A7s I might....and I agree if they bring out V-Log for the GH4 then that would definitely make the GH4 even more usable in my books.

See what 2015 brings I guess, otherwise if the 1DC drops even more, then that is definitely kinda tempting.

I have to say that many (not all) A7s owners can come across as being incredibly narcissistic (if such an expression can apply to cameras).

Generally now the tone of many A7s owners (not all) is incredibly pompous and self righteous..worse than many Canon owners actually.

Its kinda sad really...obviously its a great little camera,but it has its issues, and there are other cameras that are good too, and in the right hands...even great!!

I came hear to read about the Atomos Shogun, and although there is some good info, other cameras that work with it like the NX1 or GH4 barely rate a mention.

Yes I know...they do internal 4k anyway and for the A7s this is a first, but yeah it would be nice to mention other cameras once in a while.

I really hope Andrews part 2 of the Atomos Shogun review is not just an A7s part 3 article.

Ummm Maybe have a play on the name EOSHD

Something like Every Opinion Should Have Depth...something like that, plays up the forum aspects of it.

I like that Andrew stated his opinions forcefully (except when I disagree ...a fair bit of the time LOL!!)

In fact no one really agrees on too much (ha ha ha) but its not boring!!

So the name could have something to do with, if you have an opinion, give it some depth!!

Thanks Andrew...Just send me a paypal payout for that idea.

Cheers 

The point is no one can look back over the last five years of financial statements and find a loss on Canon's income statement..

Thats not totally true...maybe not a loss yet, but a rapid decline early in 2014 ...see the post above, as far as competitors not posting a profit...see the above also.

Its also reasonable to predict (based on early 2014 data, that Canons later sales will be eaten into even more...with Mirorless, Increasing Consumer 4K, and smaretphones.

Canons business model is not rock solid, it has been, but times are changing quickly...most newer data confirms this, its good to check current data..before you post statements like this

Once you notice the A7s colours you can't not see it anymore. Something is horribly off no matter how hard you try to convince me otherwise. The colours are washed out no matter how hard you push saturation even to the breaking point, at that point they look like cartoon, thin, green, yellow and washed out. Hard to describe but I see it in every single A7s video shot out there. Don't see it neither in Canons, Nikons, Panasonics or anything else, even Samsung! That is the only single reason keeping me away from buying it, the colours, the images just don't look good to me.

Jeez I totally agree...I thought something must be wrong with my eyes.

But I just cant feel comfortable with it, its a pity..I would love to love it, but I dunno it just doesnt float my boat,

I prefer the Canon, Panasonic, Samsung look ...any day.

Oh well art is subjective.

Personally I think Andrew is right, many here say Canon does not need to take risks its sales are stable and profitable

Whereas others like Sony, Panansonic etc..are not. Well current data appears to contradict that claim

This is from 2013 too, now mirrorless markets are eating into Canons profits as well.

NOTHING is guaranteed

Canon

As Canon and Nintendo posted results Wednesday, the two companies felt the impact of smartphones in different ways.

For Canon, digital-camera shipments are shrinking rapidly as smartphones eat into demand for compact point-and-shoot models,

while Nintendo's newest videogame systems are struggling to gain momentum in a world of free-to-play games surging on smartphones.

Meanwhile, Canon said it posted a 34% decline in quarterly net profit even though sales and earnings benefited from the weak yen.

Canon said sales at its imaging-system business, 70% of which comprises camera sales, slipped 1.8% in the first quarter in yen terms,

although they sank 14% once the impact of the yen's depreciation is stripped out.

In addition, the operating-profit margin at the business fell to 9.6% in the first quarter from 15% a year earlier.

Panasonic

Japanese consumer electronics giant Panasonic has reported its first full-year profit for three years, with the weaker yen helping to boost

sales.

The maker of the Lumix camera posted profits of 120.4bn yen ($1.2bn; £710m) for the year to March

Note this was before sales of the GH4 really began to kick in, not to mention the LX100 etc...

So data seems to show that although over the longer term Canon has been the most profitable.

However over the last year we get a very different story Panasonic is making profits and Canons business is shrinking.

So it would be natural to conclude that Panasonics risk taking in delivering new technologies is paying off.

Whereas Canons no risk policy is not paying off. Andrew is right on that score, and data backs it up.

So do countless Internet opinions, blogs, Youtube reviews and a ton of other stuff.

Personally I couldnt give a rats ass who is the best tho.

But I would not pay $10,000 of dollars for a Canon 1DC in 4K when I can get a GH4 with a good lens for a quarter of the price and no-one

(unless they are a total pixel peeper) would see the difference on a 1080P screen.

I simply like seeing better technologies delivered at a good price to consumers and right now Panasonic, Sony and Samsung are doing that...Canon is not.

Article here...and there are many more elsewhere

http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324474004578442290959547764

I think saying Canon is losing customers in the video enthusiast market is reasonable.  I don't think it is reasonable to extrapolate that it is going to cost them dearly financially in the long run.  I wish it would cost them... but so far it hasn't.

I think this is a reasonable conclusion, but current data seems to show that the lack of catering to enthusiatsts is begining to cost Canon in overall profits, time will tell tho, the next few years will be interesting.

The future of Photography and video is with Canon and Sony I believe.

How so? Canon is not creating any "future" cameras, they sell lots and they are a safe name etc...(thats a given)

But no-one thats looking to the "future" of video...looks at Canon, all the enthusiasts, all the blogs (not just Andrew) the reviewers on Youtube...etc...all look to Sony,

Panansonic and possibly Samsung...and even Nikkon...but Canon are more and more being regarded as Dinasaurs.

Its not Andrews fault, its everywhere...when was the last time in the last year or two that a blogger said wow this new DSLR from Canon blows away (no pun intended)

the competition with this amazing feature etc..?

It does not happen...on the Contrary many bloggers, many reviewers Dugdale, Celeb Pike and loads of others have moved to Panasonic or Sony..and they let others know why...you cant stop this, eventually the masses slowly follow.

The importer that brings Canon and Panasonic, Nikkon into Australia told me when I bought my GH4 that he could not get enough GH4's and it was frustrating, he also told me that although Canon sales are good, they are definitely not what they used to be.

We can argue this till the cows come home, but the reality is things are changing and because of the internet, things are changing quickly.

Remember there were no 4K DSLR type cams just over a year ago.

I think that Canon has a good reputation of quality. Their products works, image quality may not be the best but it is also important that the camera is reliable. I have had lots of quality issues with Panasonic. Video quality is very good but cameras and lenses are not working good, there are too much faults and issues and break downs.

I have owned the GH2 for several years, now the GH4...I have had no issues at all...so far!!

What company is allowed to get away with 6 year old tech in their cameras?

 

What company only allows "positive commentary" to be posted in blogs and frowns on those with "critical tone"?

 

What company gets to sell cameras with less features at a higher price and still move them by the boat load?

 

What company gets to do all the above and still look like a leader?

 

It's a company with one hell of a marketing department. Global marketing department, I might add.

 

 

 

Ha ha ha ha   LOL!! This a brilliant post and very true!! :)

Well...This is a very interesting debate...very interesting reading, I can sense a few feathers getting ruffled.

I am not on anyones side here, but I can almost gaurantee that if you took some really well shot footage from either

the 1DC or the GH4 or the A7s and did some nice color grading on each and played that downsized footage at 1080P to

an average viewer ...which is 99% of the people.

I would bet a thousand dollars that  they would see them all being roughly equal and not say that footage looks great, that sucks etc...

so in that sense as we are still mainly viewing in 1080P at best (ipads etc..are often hard to tell between 720p and 1080P).

So as we are mainly viewing in 1080P the differences would be negligable, but the price differences are not.

There are always differences in user experiences in any camera...for example I have had the GH4 for months now,

and I have had no problems with the so called (Noisy Image) that some complain about (in the shadows and whatnot).

Thats probably cause I have used it extensively and have done test after test and found the settings that worked for me,

(opposite to what James Miller suggests)and I get a very clean and workable image, even when its slightly underexposed and

at higher ISO's...so I am delighted.

All in just over $2,000 for the Cam and the 12-35 lens, I could not have had this type of quality at this price a year or so ago...and

I would not have it now if it were not for Panasonic, Sony and now Samsung, so kudos to those companies.

I can definitely say I would not have that type of quality if Canon were still the major player for video in DSLR cams.

So in that sense I agree with Andrew, I have no particular bias, we have 2 Canons as well and my son has a Canon for shooting surf vids,

great cams (obviously not in the class of the 1DC cinema line)

But hey a GH4 costs less than a 5DMk3 and as shooting videos is my main thing.  then I would rather have a GH4 anyday...

than a 5D Mk3 cause I for one care about detail, I can do whatever else I need to do in post if the camera delivers out of the box.

My 2 cents

Interesting Camera....I read somewhere...some reviewer said the video motion was not that good, a bit worrying, but early days, we will see I guess.

Good on Sony, Panasonic and Samsung for pushing the boundaries tho, nothing would ever happen under $4000 plus if it was up to Canon.

Wow!! Thanks Andrew!! great review and really awesome pics too...lovely.

I am really excited, I bought the Gh4 some months back...using it daily and have come to love it more and more as I fine tune my own custom setup.

I just wish that Panasonic had some way that you could write your own custom presets into a dedicated menu and title them rather than the C1, C2 setup, presets that are titled like you can do on a synthesizer...at least a list of 15 or more...selectable from a specific menu would be awesome!

But that said the GH4 has been great, and now this, I need another camera for music clips...and this could be it.

After your review I am really keen to check this camera out.

Thanks again.

Cheers

Each to their own.

Personally I like the Gh4's colors, but it took me a while to get the settings I like.

Basically it reproduces pretty much exactly what my eyes see, in terms of detail and colors...and I like that, my eyes are the ultimate judge and I cant trade them in on next years model, I have relied on them for years in graphic art and 3d design.

Using iDynamic in reasonable light gives good detail in shadows with practically no noise or blotching that I can see.

I had a Canon 60D, my son uses it these days for surf videos...I cant say the same about that, its a nice enough image, but to my eyes (and many others, its nowhere near the class of the GH4 in practically any area).

Many users have sold their 5DMk3's and many others are able to match the color nicely to the Canon C100, there are tons of threads on dvxuser.com about this.

But at the end of the day, the whole GH4 Vs Canon Vs Nikon Micro 4/3rd vs Full Frame...is a lot like the argument that has been around for decades in relation to guitars...

is a single coil better than a humbucker? (they are certainly different) or is a Fender (largely single coils) better than a Gibson (largely Humbuckers)? or does and Ibanez lack soul (now theres a word that puts the argument out of reach LOL!!...the camera equivalent is the much maligned term "filmic")

At the end of the day, its horses for courses, I personally dont base my decisions on anyones Sony, Canon, Nikon, Panasonic preferences or bias...I use what pleases me...and I'll bet most others do the same.

Nice article...very informative.

I have had the GH4 for over 2 months now and using it daily for video shooting and endless tests as well..

I want to get an A7s sometime, but I have held off from that for a while, to keep an eye on the market and properly learn the GH4 as well.

The interesting thing is when i first got the GH4.I was not that blown away, I was shooting in 4K mainly with the Cine-D profile at first and getting good results, but not overwhelming, personally I really didn't like the flatter than flat look, especially with the contrast all the way down.

As far as some reviewers saying the GH4 does not produce a very desirable image quality

I really dont pay too much attention to those opinions, generally you will find they have used one or two "recommended" settings and dont like the image,

I have shot videos in the GH4 where I have thought...uuughhh that looks awful, and others (after some time of learning) where I have just loved the look.

No-one is exempt from learning, doesn't matter how big your name is, many of these name persons dont bother to even learn the GH4 and then give their conclusions as tho its the final word...and its usually based on one or 2 highly questionable settings.

Recently since the version 2.0 firware I have been graviting to shooting video in 4K photo mode in natural or standard with minimal sharpness.contrast, hue etc.. adjustments and using low iDynamics and one point AF.

I can honestly say...that lately I have been totally blown away with the results even on a 27'    2560 x 1400 monitor.

I really love this camera and personally I have no real problems with noise either...even at 1600...I have only encountered it in very minimal light, a not so fast lens and with iDynamic cranked hard as well.

Generally for me anyway, its the other way around, I get bored with a camera over time, but the GH4 has so many interesting adjustments that you can get an incredible image out of it after a little time learning all the ins and outs and what they actually do to the final image.

I cant wait to see it on a 4K screen either, there is a thread on the dvxuser forum about how good it looks on the new Samsung, I am hoping Andrew will do a review on this sometime in the near future.

Cheers

Andrew

Very interesting article...just one point you said "Is this the perfect monitor to watch your Gh4 footage on?" and then you never said anything further about that, apart from a little bit about the A7s.

What does the A7s footage look like? What does the GH4 footage look like?

Just in your opinion ..based on viewing on that 4K monitor.

You said its very revealing and you may have to re review some cameras...but not much more about that?

A positive and negative review of the current crop of 4K DSLR's on a 4K monitor would be great...avoiding the stuff we already know...like ISO performance...RS etc...

just the detail, colors etc of those 4K cams.....how they hold up,  and a comparison of current 1080p DSLR's on that monitor as compared to the A7s and GH4 would be very interesting as well.

There are no other articles about this as far as I know, and I am sure a lot of us would be very interested in the results.

Thanks for the article...

Cheers :)