MattH

From wedding shooters:
Metabones SB XL & Viltrox with Sigma 18-35 f/1.8 & Sigma 50 f/1.4:
 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 12-50mm f/3.5-6.3 and Samyang 16mm T2.2:
Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 coupled to Viltrox adapter:
Fuji 8563 RL film stock simulation:
Last but not least, from Filippo Chiesa:
 
 
 

Not a chance I would waste my time watching such a boring slow motion shot.  I stopped after 10 seconds.  Its people walking. Why do I need to see it in slow motion? How long does the video last anyway?

I think this thread needs a reality check, and luckily Caleb Wojcik just posted one.
Some of the points he made were:
He loves the image but the camera is a pain to use and so often stays at home in favour of his 2 x C100 mk2 It was expensive, and the battery life, proprietary accessories like touchscreen, storage, media readers, handle, chargers, and everything else cost about $25K US about two years ago In fact it was so expensive that he left it locked up because of fear of using it (despite having insurance) It's hugely heavy and impractical to use, he had to buy four batteries because two wasn't enough, and it basically requires a team to build and operate it In summary - two years ago one of the most affordable cinema cameras cost $20K plus, was such a PITA to use that he didn't take it places, and he used C100s instead.
Now in 2018, they release a 4K60 RAW cinema camera that costs less than 10% of the above RED, is smaller than the C100s but a significant margin, gets similar battery life, is easily hand-holdable, works with all kinds of third-party accessories, and comes with a free copy of an industry leading NLE.
Anyone who bitches about the battery life, size, cost or anything like that clearly don't have the faintest idea what a real cinema camera is like.
Get a grip - you're just embarrassing yourselves.

Absolutely my thoughts.  This camera will sort the men from the boys.  I've seen footage that could go head to head with ARRI and Ursa as you say, but I've also seen footage that has more of a video look than a 8 year old apsc cannon dslr (way more infact).    The correct settings and grading will make all the difference.  And obviously the quality of the cinematography also.  One thing about a lower price point is that it makes it more accessible to more amateurs, so the lower average quality of craftmanship might make the camera seem worse than it would do otherwise compared to more expensive cameras.

The vast majority of hobbyists and vloggers will get better results with a GH5/S or XT-3 than the 4K Pocket. Just like the vast majority of them got better results with a GH3, 5D3 etc than the original Pocket and the endless ‘organic retro lut’ grades that abounded with that camera. Although Blackmagic are trying to aim this camera at a broader market that the Ursa 4.6k/Pro, I don’t think it is the right solution for people who don’t use Davinci in their workflow.
BM have tried to simplify things for users with the Gen4 colour science but they overestimate the average person’s interest in correctly white balancing (even in post), using more than one node, appropriate lift/gamma/gain and selective sharpening etc. The fact that this camera has a much higher quality ceiling than everything else under $3k doesn’t mean it will play out that way in most situations.
It is in that tricky space between being able to cut seamlessly with an ARRI or Ursa Mini Pro(which looks fantastic with Gen4 colour) and looking potentially worse than consumer cams. 

If they can keep cameras small and not hold back on features then I see no reason why they cant sell more m4/3rds cameras possibly by the millions if they play their cards right.  Especially if they were cheap.   Imagine a camera half way in size between a GM5 and a GX85, with an articulating screen, mic socket, gh5 sensor and gh5 video features.   Is anyone seriously saying that wouldnt sell like hot cakes?   And thats before you even think about adding in smartphone technology.

I'm betting he'll use it to beat the crap out of his girlfriend.
If you can wait a year before getting it, then you don't need it.

I don't think that's true.   A lot of blackmagic cameras have exposed holes, but all of the stuff that is vital to the camera (FGPA, Sensor, etc.) are sealed from dust/weather, etc.
 
I do think that the Pocket 4K is a better option for professional cinema use, but for everyday users I don't think Blackmagic cameras are ideal.  Autofocus, IBIS, rotating screen, etc. are huge features that will greatly benefit the average user more than raw will.
 
If another brand of mirrorless camera would incorporate the BRAW codec then there would be very little reason to buy a Blackmagic cam anymore.

Hard to buy that. There are barely any M43 sensors on the market. Is there really another out there with the same oversized dimensions and dual ISO that we somehow haven't heard about?

Boy that person got their money's worth out of that slider and zoom lens. Christ I need Daramamine!

Log is forced under exposure.  Thats how it works.  Thats why it says iso800 when its really iso100.  Its a lower iso pushed to a higher average brightness, but it says iso800 to make you expose lower.  Thats how you get more highlight latitude.  How else could you get it?  It cant be magiced up from nowhere.
So if three stops of extra latitude is too much and you'd rather have just two with cleaner shadows then, sure, over expose a stop in log.
But if you're over exposing by two stops (definitely 3) you may as well just shoot in normal gamma because you are throwing away everything log gives you anyway.

Where do you guys watch uncompressed videos online?

Didn’t somebody already make the potato joke? ??
I’m pleased to entertain you, but why would you shoot with a potato? Why not shoot with a camera with a beautiful image? 
Somebody said “you have to judge through 4K screen” which I  think is nonsense. That’s the context of my comment.
It is always good to remember to have some perspective. That’s all. 

Would be great, but actually wouldn't bother with the processing I've seen in the X-T3 clips so far that much.
The sharpening in the Z6 clip is causing the terrible artifacts we see in the new clip - which has some really nice compositions btw.
If it can be turned off, the camera would be great for video work, especially with something like the Ninja V attached.

Who said it is 6 months. That's why wait 5 days. Costs nothing. Maybe they get a GH5 FF in 3 months and it's worth the wait. 
Color science lol... I don't care about that. I can produce great looking colors from A7 which is worst color science on earth according to internet. 

The main thing I wish it had was IBIS. The one thing I love about my NX1 is it has digital image stabilization, which isn't even sensor stabilization, but works very well for handheld shots. Seeing how shaky that video posted a few pages back was (and I'm not shitting on the person who shot it or the person who released it. as far as I am concerned, more is better when talking about footage from an unreleased camera), it seems like handholding it is going to require quite steady hands. Will have to see how the OiS lenses do alone.

It seems a lot of people are confusing the question of what the footage shows us about the camera and the question of whether the footage is a polished professional piece.  Possibly motivated by jealousy that they havent got the camera.   Its just a model stood there being shot by the camera hand held,  Its not claiming to be an art piece or a documentary or a music video or anything, so it has no obligation to look polished and professional.
So getting back to the real question at hand which is what the footage shows us about the camera, I think it looks outstanding!   The lack of image artefacts, very good low light performance, good looking highlight latitude, and the cinematic look overall, if you thought that came from a still camera you'd be singing its praise from the rooftops.  Or if you saw this 5 years ago from any camera with a price south of $10,000 you'd be singing its praise from the rooftops.
What else does it show us.  Well it shows that you wont be handholding it for long focal length shots unless the lens is stabilised.  So that is useful information.  But it showed that even with shakiness the rolling shutter wasn't unbearable.  That's useful.    And the fact that the guy bothered to mount a bmmcc to it so we will be able to directly compare, we should be grateful for that information also.

The ISO chart that they showed at that event that's on the Cinema 5D blog is interesting.   Seems as if the middle grey point shifts within the dynamic-range range.  I assume that's just for prores (and maybe raw metadata).
That would mean that besides simply giving more brightness it would be more of an image manipulation tool.  You choose the ISO depending on whether you want more range in the shadows or in the highlights.  Look at the difference between 1000 and 1250:      Goes from 7.8 stops latitude below and 5.3 stops above to 10 stops below and 2.3 stops above.   A small change in brightness but probably a big change in the look of the image.       Then with gradual changes going down or up from those points.

I must admit that this despite its obvious flaws the R does have some appeal.   The colours look great straight out of camera, autofocus should work great.  All intra internal which I don't think the Sonys have.  And yes the filters adapter does look good.   (I did put ibis in this list but then I realised its only digital stabilisation).

But here's what troubles me.   Its the fact that the features of this camera don't even work with each other:  If you want the filter adapter you cant use it with the new lenses.  So either you have to buy separate filters for the new lenses anyway or not use the new lenses.     And if you aren't using the new lenses it already starts to fall apart as a coherent system.  Its basically a EF mount camera with the mirror removed and a filter slot put in.

Then comes the 4k crop.   You could think, well does it matter because you could use a speed booster in order to give you close-to full frame coverage in video and full frame stills with the same lenses.  Firstly that would be a pain in the ass to have add an adapter every time you wanted to take a full resolution still with the very same lens, because if you don't bother to do that you may as well have a crop sensor camera to start off with.   But secondly, and more importantly, if you use a speed booster you can no longer use the filter adapter.   So now you are stuck with the crop and probably will have to resort to aps-c lenses to get wide shots.

So although you could argue that you have options, it kind of seems like an endless merry go round of compromises and second guessing yourself.

Imagine if they had made the flange a little deeper to put a filter slot into the body itself and had full frame 4k.  Then all those problems would be gone. THEN it would make perfect sense as an integrated hybrid system.

Nah its accurate. Believe me. Im a Sony fanboy and Fuji shooter. I review all of them.
If I review a Sony all is well.
If I review a Fuji I get attacked by Sony Fanboys.
If I review a Pentax or Nikon I'm attacked by Sony and Fuji Fanboys.
If I review a Canon... all hell breaks loose since even Sony Walkman fanboys attack.
I base this on receiving and reading 26 090 comments over the last couple of years. Just visit any forum and see for yourself. For example checkout the thread about the EOS-R on EOSHD.
 
 
 
After my 6Dmkii review I had to block some really vicious people that weren't attacking just me but also people commenting on the video.
And not about specs. We are talking threats and in general things that would lead to a punch in the face irl.
The weirdest thing was they weren't all anonymous. They actually used their business accounts...freelancers, production house employees using their official accounts... 

I agree. I think Canon are going to protect their pro DSLR line (as Nikon) and are going to continue to protect their C-line.
This probably means single card slot, 4K crop, 8-bit etc.

I was just thinking out loud along with you.

I think if BM re-released these clips with no post adjustments, people's reactions would be on a totally different level. I find it hard to judge the camera based on another person's grading.
I'd and I think most others would be over the moon if they uploaded a handful of files straight off the card along with a text document with the cameras settings.
Even just 1 shot from each of these videos.
But I know they won't be doing that. hopefully when the first shipment goes out, people will be sharing that kind of thing. I will if mine arrive before there's loads of other footage available.

The main point is that hd modes never give you true hd resolution. Regardless of what your lens can resolve.  Even with the c300 and 5d3 raw you are getting less than a downscaled still frame.  So a clean 4k downscaled should give as close to true hd resolution as possible. With, as you say, less (or smaller) digital artifacts. But yes to get pure 4k you would probably need a 6 to 8k sensor and a very sharp lens stopped down to an optimum aperture, and focused well. But once you get over pure 2k resolution it starts to get into the realm of who can tell the fucking difference anyway.  As for whether lenses will even give you 1080 lines: a kit zoom, probably not. A decent prime stopped down, close enough. And I would rather have a clean 900 lines than an artifacty 800.

Thank you. You have in a way agreed to what I said, though you said it in such a way to try and save face.  The fact that you accept there are other possible meanings for what he said disqualifies his comments from being declared an admission or confession.   As an admission would have to be explicit.  A confession would have to be an admission of all facts neccesary for conviction of a crime.
As for the timing of the allegations. It is true that the timing has no bearing on whether the allegations are true or not.  I didn't say that it did.  What the timing has a great bearing on is whether people believe the allegation are true.  It effects the believing, not the truth itself.
It should also be noted for the record that an allegation existing also has no bearing on whether it is true or not.