bwhitz

Yes! I love jerking off to "proper video cameras" and pretending it makes me better than other people! That's why I 'm going to love this camera! Sony and Canon are the best! Ditch those inferior Blackmagic 4k/6ks with better color science and better workflow... you need something PROPER!

11 minutes ago, Mmmbeats said:

Point 3 is the one that I disagree with the most.  The results from using a cinema camera over a DSLR, mirrorless or similar are indeed 'magical' if you look at the target user.

Yes, to concede a fair-point (because I wasn't very specific) if you're doing documentary or event work... something with allot of built-in features is probably worth it over pure-image-quality (or close enough quality). But, I'd still argue that if you have a controlled set, lighting, ect. a $5,000-$15,000 camera isn't going to magically get you better results than a Blackmagic or good DSLR. anymore. I've even seen a Alexa vs P6K video where the Pocket looked BETTER. Same with Red, the current Blackmagics look better, IMO, than even something like the bit-older Red Dragon's (which I've used extensively).

2 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

 

I will say it again, professionals want to worry LESS on the filed, less is more, less is safer, less is better.

Well I'm a professional and something like the Pocket4k/6k is perfectly fine. I've had literally ZERO issues. Add a V-mount... like you would to literally ANY other professional cine cam. You think people shooting Red or Arri's complain that everything doesn't fit into a tiny-package and they have to add almost every accessory? What exactly are you shooting? Have you seen the camera's they shoot movies with?  

37 minutes ago, Mmmbeats said:

I'm not so much talking about making considered (though in my opinion, misguided) points like you have done. 

Not misguided... change my mind. 

2 hours ago, Mmmbeats said:

Why do people get so worked up about this stuff?  Seriously - it would be an interesting psychological study.

1. Some people just don't like the obvious artificial limiting/crippling of tech... they'd like real competition and better products

2. Some people actually LIKE the boomer-protectionism of the 1980's technology markets. I.e. hacks can just say "I own X or Y expensive camera! You HAVE to hire me now!"

3. Some people like to pretend that there is something "Magical" about $5000 or $15000 cameras that will give them better results over something like a Blackmagic P4K or capable DSLR. There isn't. 

Canon and Sony color science looks like ass. Both basically only capture some variation of magenta and/or green. I only like shooting Arri, new-Red, or Blackmagic now.

3 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

You seem to be the very definition of a fan boy. Someone who thinks their way is the only way.

I see that this camera doesn't appeal to many here on EOSHD, but then why get so worked up about it?

I don't go on a HipHop forum and get all fired up that the Foo Fighters latest album isn't Hip Hop do I?

Yep. This camera appeals to me since I do allot of VFX work. Pulling keys from this are going to be insanely good. Even if you composite for 4k delivery. This could very well become the next go-to VFX cam.

It's like BM can read my mind. I was just thinking the other day... "Man, if only the 4.6k Ursa had 120fps (or even 96fps) in 4k I'd just get one instead of waiting around for the Pocket4k..."

2 hours ago, jonpais said:

You mean to tell me that calling cameras garbage is not offensive to the thousands of forum members who use those cameras every day? You deliberately use inciteful language to stir people up, then pretend it’s just about the camera. The other possibility is that you don’t realize how those words affect people - but I don’t think so, since your last response was worded in such a way as to not give offense.

No, because this is the internet... and since body language and tonality is lost... people (like myself) use hyperbolic language and flippant comments to emphasize points. Most people just roll their eyes and move on if they don't agree. It happens with movies, car, sports, ect...

And I'm not "pretending" it's only about camera.. IT IS just about the camera (and images)... if you're attaching some kind of personal connection this... then I don't know what to say. You're reading into things too far if you think this is about anything more than a literal image discussion...

9 hours ago, Mokara said:

Lol, well, if he has clients and works on "serious projects", one assumes that he would not be using a consumer orientated camera in the first place. At least one hopes not

Yea, I'm not sure what is even being implied in this post? Most big projects use cameras from a rental house. Allot of "professionals" don't actually own personal cameras. BUT... It would be nice to have something that can be used on a gimbal/drone to get extra shots or as a B-Cam to get some extra angles. It's also nice to own something you can do personal projects with that's in the same ball-park as "bigger cameras". On the project I'm working on right now... the Red is kind of a pain to carry around. Even on the Ronin... it's HEAVY. We REALLY wanted something smaller for a hand gimbal... but the A7sII (lack of 60fps 4k) and GH5 (lack of clean resolution) aren't making the cut, unfortunately. Again, it's frustrating because the GH5 is ALMOST there... there's nothing about the specs of the GH5 that couldn't be used professionally... besides the uncontrollable  Sharpening and Noise Reduction.

I have no idea why a discussion on "garbage" cameras is getting so personal... THEY'RE CAMERAS. They're inanimate objects. Everyone gets new ones all the time and there's always something better around the corner (Blackmagic Pocket 4K). Sheesh....

17 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

You see? You've just found some workaround going along the 6K anamorphic mode as they call it, so at last you second so in a way or another... A bit contradictory, what does it seem? ;-)

Yea, but the anamorphic mode is not usable for most projects. Lenses can be unwieldy... defeating the purpose of the GH5's and M4/3 size... putting the GH5 on a gimbal or steady cam is tough with most anamorphic setups. Plus, the look is great, but not always what you want for every project. The larger point is... WHY CAN'T PANASONIC WRITE TWO LINES OF CODE TO TURN THE GARBAGE NOISE REDUCTION AND SHARPENING OFF!!! agggHHHHH!!!

20 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Link to your showreel. 

Not relevant. Plus, I try to keep personal stuff separate from any professional stuff... that's just the internet these days. Anyways... this discussion is not subject to some "appeal to authority" fallacy. The GH5 has really bad image processing (that doesn't turn off) that makes the image relatively un-usable for high-end stuff. You can CLEARLY see it disable when shooting in 6k anamorphic mode... and subsequently make a great image in the league of higher-end cameras. But the GH5 in normal mode doesn't even look like a 2k image when put next to something like the EVA1. These things exist outside of who's-who opinions of the internet.

13 minutes ago, jonpais said:

But greater minds than yours don’t think the GH5/GH5s image is garbage: Paul Leeming, Matthew Scott, Hugh Brownstone, Andrew Reid, Luke Neumann, and Filippo Chiesa, to name just a few. 

But how are you so sure they're "greater minds" than I? I've worked on higher profile projects than most of these guys...

But even if I'm just some weirdo on the internet... that's not the point of the discussion.

12 minutes ago, jonpais said:

There is no need to call any camera’s footage plastic looking garbage. No sensible person does this. It is offensive. Especially under the veil of anonymity, with no work to show. 

lol... it's offensive? To who? The camera? Come on... The GH5 has an image that looks like plastic. When you compare it to the detail you get with Red or even Alexa at 2k... then yes, it's garbage. And I'm a BIG fan of Panasonic actually. That's why I'm being so hard on the GH5. I know what they're capable of... the EVA1 image is fantastic. The Varicam image is also one of my favorites of the major cameras. The GH5 ACTUALLY resolves a great image... in the 6K abamorphic mode... where it looks like it disables the garbage Sharpness and NR settings. So all Panasonic has to do is write ONE STINKING LINE OF CODE to disable the horrible, horrible, image-processing. This again, has nothing to deal with one's personal work. It literally doesn't factor into the discussion about camera images.

12 minutes ago, jonpais said:

 

I know everyone is expecting another rant at this point, since this authority on image quality just pretty much labeled all my footage as trash.... but I’m actually starting to find this irrational compulsion to smear Panasonic amusing. And I’m sure we’d all really like to see this charming fellow’s website, channel or showreel. Just to see what pro footage looks like. ?

I didn't call YOUR footage trash... just the GH5 "image". Obviously, content is king... and I'm sure you can create great cinematic content. In fact, most modern cameras are going to allow you to create an image most audience find acceptable. BUT... let's be honest... this is a pixel peeping forum... and we're all image snobs! So I'm just being blunt. I have no idea why everyone's getting personal about shooting skills... were talking about the camera IMAGES here... not personal cinematography skills.

Quote

I compared the 10bit ALL-I on the GH5 with external 10 bit ProresHQ at 400% on a 4K monitor, and the Panasonic codec looked better with finer detail, nicer grain pattern. The prores looked blocky at 400%. 

You must be on some kind of drugs then. I've never seen a GH5 video that didn't look like absolute garbage at 4k... hell, it doesn't even look like a proper 2k image. The Sharpening and NR have no true off settings and it renders the detail as nothing but over-sharpened muddy-plastic. I'd like to see this GH5 video that has the "nice detail" you talking about. I'd love to be proven wrong...

12 minutes ago, jonpais said:

No more garbage plastic looking footage! ?

Nope. Not with Blackmagic's image... Cheers!

Looks amazing. Totally nailed expectations. I'm seriously getting two of these things... 

15 hours ago, anonim said:

So do I... and I think that's the reason why I'm so fond to this thread... (BM is only company about which I recognized in myself an stupid sentiment - that I owe something to it

Me three! Obviously. Once you see the plastic gauss of the GH5 series (and others) you cant unsee it. Sharpening is meant for post... after color and contrast adjustments if possible... and DEFINITLEY after VFX. The halo-ing and "crunch" you get with the GH5/GH5s around detail (like hair) makes a decent green-screen key nearly impossible... even with it's great internal codec.  

This will be great if the higher frame options are real. This could be the perfect camera right now.

And It's true that we have cameras like the mentioned GH5... but IMO it just doesn't have a useable 4k (or even 2k) image for serious work. The the NR and Sharpness settings don't have a full-off setting and  they're ruining the image. There is just no real detail in either the GH5 or GH5s. It's all plastic looking garbage.

I'd much rather have a smaller-sensor with real-detail... a real high-end image that their other cameras have. Ket's hope theyve pulled it off!!!

2 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Did you even look at the video kidzrevil posted above using the Fuji X-T2. Hell if this new one is 15% better looking output wise hell it will be great! I don't see how it Just being 8 bit makes it crap. Hell that is all a Canon 1DC,  a C100, Sony A7s is. I sure as hell would not call those cameras crap!

Depends what you're using them for. For documentary production... you're right 8-bit is totally workable. But for anything "cinematic", anything with VFX... ect. Yes, all those cameras are crap. And trust me, I used to think people like me were a**hole trollers... I used to roll my eyes at all that "client-facing" or "professional" talk... but damn, I was wrong. I had to eat my words when I started working on some of these productions. Sometimes these people want a crazy stylized look to the footage... but a certain paint, or fabric, whatever, needs to be isolated and colored to advertised specifications... and the image cannot lose fidelity. You simply cannot grade 4:2:0 8-bit footage in any real sense or use it for VFX (where I mainly work). I've tried... I've had colorists try... it always ruins the image and cannot be presented outside of "crash-cam" or "spectator" footage. 

But to say something somewhat constructive... I will say the detail looks very good in that video though. I've been wanting to get a GH5 or GH5s... and I just cannot find a video that looks like it even resolves a 2K image. I guess I had never looked at the footage that closely... but something is ruining the images from those cams... even the "camera originals" people offer for download. There must be heavy noise-processing that cannot be turned down all the way. Everything has that "digital-gause" that ruins fine details and textures. Even the older Blackmagic 2.5k camera appears to resolve more detail than the GH5. So, anyways... the Fuji does look allot better in this department! 

On 2/9/2018 at 3:28 PM, salim said:

The lates recap on the Fuji: 

 

4K with 1.17x crop and 30p

4:2:0 in camera

8 bit

200 Mbps (the X-T2 has 100 Mbps)

internal F-Log

So... in other words... another junk camera that can't really be used on any client facing work or serious projects. Wonderfull. 

15 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

@DBounce I wouldnt write VLOG off. Check this comparison in real low light:

GH5s and GH5 compared in VLOG at iso6400, 12LUX!, shutter 1/25, Fstop 2.8:

 

GH5:

 

GH5s

Very nice! Did you turn down all the NR and Sharpening in camera? Because allot of the GH5s videos I've seen have been downright atrocious in the detail department... which makes me think they're ruining the image with the picture profiles somehow. Half the posted GH5s vids I've watched look no better than a GoPro or Cellphone (seen plenty of GH5 videos like this also)... horribly crunched and processed. But this looks very nice, full 4k, filmic-looking detail! Would love to see some properly shot GH5s vids soon! 

I don't believe in censorship, but I do believe in content standards. Paul should be shunned, if nothing else, for being a talentless hack. And people should be shunned for watching garbage that people like him put out. I feel bad for the professional-media industry in general these days. I mean, this guy has made well-over 10 million jumping around like a asshat and talking about nonsense. There are girls that are multi-millionaires from fucking make-up tutorials. Who the hell is going to want to actually write and film real stories in the future?  

38 minutes ago, Cliff Totten said:

Woah,...just had a thought. What if Panasonic got the balls to add "Dual ISO" to the GH5-S...stolen from the EVA1 and VariCam?

Would they actually be that bold for a camera this cheap?

They could! They could actually be this bold, this cheap... as the s35 sensor in the EVA1 would still be enough in the professionals eye to justify the purchase. I don't think Panasonic would run into any market issues with this route. 

I'd be happy with 4k 60fps 4:2:2 10-bit on the GH5s... 120fps would be amazing though.