PAVP

Most intelligent adults should be able to separate the interest in a new camera and it's strengths and weaknesses from the skills it takes to actually make a quality visual image and a film that touches the emotions.  To say that a cameras image is filmic is somewhat silly since it's just a light capturing box and what you put in front of the sensor and how you edit the images you film will greatly impact the end result perhaps more than the camera itself.  Still you want the best starting point you can get.  

You use the right lenses and have a really good camera it gets you closer to what you want to achieve.  Sure you can get the job done with any number of cameras, but there are differences in what each camera can realistically be expected to be able to handle.  IMO banding in poor 8bit video with no highlight rolloff can be the antithesis of filmic.  It does matter if you can use a camera that is more capable in more lighting situations.  It's also nice to know that if you really need superb levels of detail and smooth color you can get it.  This is a Golden age of low cost cameras.  We've never had it so good.  Enjoy :)

I have a Canon 50D and IMO ML RAW isn't so bad to deal with if you prepare for the workflow.  It's not so hard to convert the files to ProRes or DXnHD and work from there in 10bit.  IMO the image is just soft enough to be more flattering and the color is excellent.  I would love the GH4 down the line, but for right now there's no rush.  NONE of my clients would even appreciate the differences.  It all depends on what your needs are.  Basically we have some really good options for making quality images.

I still give Nikon a bit of credit for the new D5300.  They added 60p and I have hope that the low light Noise Reduction is improved and they solved the fixed pattern noise.  If so that camera will offer some good bang for the buck.  I think it would be a good candidate for Nikon to base a Cinema Camera on.  Tho i'm sure some would suggest the FF D610 perhaps.  Either way they have some good candidates for taking just a few small steps to come up with a Cinema Nikon just like they made the Df photo focused camera, they could make a Nikon focused on video.  Perhaps it would only take some push from the users.

Nikon has used sensors form Toshiba and Aptina, so I doubt Sony would really be able to dictate to them what they can and can't do.

I do consider what Nikon has done actually pretty decent.  The Clean HDMI out is useful along with an Atomos Ninja.  That was so important that Canon felt compelled to copy them.  The D7100 and D5200/5300 are great value.  With just a touch more attention to Cinema needs they could easily produce a winning camera based on their low and mid range DSLR's.

I think it's the conservative culture that all those companies have. Olympus, Canon, Nikon seem like they can't get out of their own way.

A lack of vision about a market they don't understand.  The small independent film and video market is HUGE in the U.S. alone.  Thing is these companies don't seem to have a clue.   These DSLR film guys often buy more than one camera so they have a bigger footprint than their numbers would suggest.  Especially since no single camera solves all needs.  For me a Cinema Nikon might get me really close.  The Sensors in Nikon's have wider DR but less low light than a 5Dmk3 but with just a bit of tweaking I bet they could get the best of both worlds out of a Nikon dedicated to Cinema.

I just don't understand Nikon.  Clearly they have the kind of opportunity to grab a nice piece of the market with minimal effort.  I have very high hopes for the Nikon D5300 as crippled as it is by not having a headphone out and aperture control in live view, still they added 60/50p and it's got a strong sensor and new Expeed 4.  If they get the noise issues sorted out with the new Processor that would be a very strong VDSLR.   Just imagine if they took the step to make it a true cinema camera?  It's not a big step at all to go there based on where it's at already.

They can easily price it well below Cinema EOS and make a huge profit.  Not having a pro video line to protect gives them so much freedom.  They can put their all into any Cinema Nikon they decide to make.

IMO BM is our friend.  A company giving the public a product that is of high value and closer to the wishes and desires of the end user than many other companies have been producing.  I wish them well with their product line.  I personally just jumped on the Magic Lantern 50D bandwagon.  The low cost and overall value is extremely high IMO.  I was originally saving for a BM Pocket, but I thought about the Sensor size of the 50D and also the ability to record in 4:3 or 3:2 on the 50D for my Anamorphic needs and I went that way.  It's not a worry since the 50D was so cheap!  Now BM is making even their 2.5k BMC cheaper and I think it's moved into a nice spot below the 5Dmk3 which is now a clear competitor with ML Raw.  BM had to make a move IMO.  It's actually a sad thing that Magic Lantern is benefiting Canon who I feel doesn't deserve the boost.  Meanwhile BM is getting screwed when they are the ones who actually did the right thing by the user base. 

I think the Camera makers need to make a decision for the future.  They need to stop thinking in the past.  Kodak failed to move for the future.  Apple made decisions that ensured that they had a meaningful existence beyond the Computer.  These companies should be thinking modular and more about how the public actually uses their products.  That's the one thing I like about what Black Magic Design's approach which is more like Apple in it's thinking.  They have a beginning of an ecosystem of hardware and software.  I think they've made some mistakes, but the basic attempt was noble.  I still think that the original BMCC was not a complete bullseye in terms of what users wanted but it was a pretty good attempt. 

What I don't understand is why these companies don't seem to just poll the user base and see what they want???  I think the closest I could guess is a system that is not too far off from what you get with a GH3, but with RAW capability and a lossless compressed codec that allows longer record times.  Something modular so users could get what they need and want and nothing more.  Seems simple enough to me.

Thank God for Magic Lantern.  I bought a 50D and have been testing and learning how to work with it.  It's not a perfect system but for the price it's what i'm willing to deal with.  I paid $450 for the 50D and $120 for a couple of 32GB Komputerbay CF cards.  Now i'm exploring what lenses I will need and the accessories to make using the camera easier.  It's very affordable and fun.  It's also very funky and not very close to perfect.  The files are large and it's not all fleshed out, but my buy in was so low that it's been worth it.  I will most likely buy a BM Pocket too.  It's just crazy that we have to hack our way to what we want rather than the Camera makers just listening and giving us the products we want.

Got 2 Komputerbay 32GB 1000x cards but one is dead.  The other is working and getting up around 82MB/s as the test stated.  Very pleased so far.  It was fairly easy to load it up.  I had my son help me since he had loaded ML on his T2i long ago.  Weather has been bad so I haven't really shot anything, besides it's gonna take me time to figure out all of this ML added features.  It's a bit daunting how much new and very technical information there is.

My main purpose for getting the 50D is the ability to use the different aspect ratios and in particular so that I can use my 2x Anamorphic.  I'm a newbie and I have a long way to go in terms of learning how to shoot.  However i'm excited by this development.  Once I learn how to not only shoot but also how to process the footage.  I loaded Tragic Lantern 2.0 and for the most part I got it working, I couldn't figure out how to set it so that the Anamorphic Stretch Display Filter could desqueeze the shot on the screen.

This is why we write books :)

 

Enter magnified focus assist and record whilst it is activated. It is like switching sensor mode.

I have your Anamorphic guide, which has helped me immensely, but haven't bought the 5D3 RAW guide yet.  Do you think you'll need to make an addendum for the 50D or is it pretty much the same deal as the 5D3 and I only need that guide to get going with the 50D? 

I must say that I never really was interested in the 50D, but i'm shocked at the build quality of this camera.  It's so far from what i'm used to with my T2i and GH1, which are much smaller and cheaply made.  I have a battery grip on the 50D and i'm gonna have to lift weights to get my wrist strong enough to handle it :D   The 50D is like a tank.  I only paid $450 for it and it feels like money well spent.  If this works out i'm getting another one.

The anamorphic de-squeeze ratios are hard coded in the display filter but I don't think it's too much hassle for a dev to add more if they are really needed.

Thanks for the info Andy600.  There are an increasing amount of users of ISCO Anamorphic Projection lenses that are listed as 2X but are actually 1.75x.  It would be great if someone added that option.  It may not be necessary.  I'll see when my CF cards get here and I can test.

To me the beauty of RAW on the 50D is the low entry price and high quality.  I think it's more of an indie film making tool than ENG type tool.  I wouldn't choose it over my other cameras for shooting a long event like a concert, tho you could.  I think this is more like a Black Magic Cinema Camera as opposed to an EX3.  I can't wait to get my CF cards so I can test this thing with my Anamorphic lens. 

Does anyone know if it's possible to add another Anamorphic stretch ratio like 1.75x?

I for one appreciate everything that the ML team is doing to advance this tech.  I just bought a 50D and i'm waiting for my CF cards.  My aim is to use the 50D for Anamorpic shooting.  I also appreciate this article even the info being a bit behind the rapidly moving development doesn't bother me.  I am bothered by the constant complaining.  Being old enough to remember when everything was analog I can appreciate how amazing all of this is.  It's so early and still there are those who show such a lack of patience or desire to do research.  It's all part of the Me generation and the NOW mentality.  I remember back to the days of the 1st fax machines and how everything changed once you had near instant availability of documents.  Nothing was ever fast enough after that.  Now it's even worse.  You use to have to get on the bus and visit your local library to get info on a given subject and now it's all instantly available.  Now NO ONE has patience anymore.  SAD :(

I applaud you ML team for your hard work and patience despite the lack of appreciation by some for what you do.

Apple isn't for everyone, but if you don't want to fuss around with things and just want something that works... this will do the job.  Of course barring any issues that are unforeseen, but really Apple has been extremely successful with their products, with only a few missteps along the way.  This system looks like a very serious turnkey solution for many users out there.  I've never understood the MacBashers out there myself, but that's their problem.  It took Apple some time to develop their new MacPro but it's as expected a serious product with a ton of thought put into it. 

People complain about Apple, but they don't respect what Apple has done from it's beginning to push personal computing over the years.  It seems like too many younger tech users don't know the history and so can't appreciate Apple for being the driving force for all the Desktop Publishing, Audio and Video editing we do today.   In fact a lot of the things we take for granted now in terms of use and design comes from Apple crafting better ideas and PROVING to the marketplace the validity of their philosophy.  This new MacPro is just another part of that process.  In time it will become clear that Apple was right with regard to OpenCL and the general direction they've set for how we handle media etc.  

This is a more modular approach and it makes sense for how most people tend to use their computer.  No need for the Bulk of the case if most people just connect peripherals rather than cram stuff inside anymore anyway.   Just a tuned up box of CPU/GPU processing and fast Ram and Storage.  Crazy thing is that it's darned near portable.  It's so small that there's no way I won't take this thing with me if the location makes sense.  It used to be just too much to drag my desktop around, but this thing... :D

How long does it take before you can shoot another burst?  Any test on how long you can shoot bursts, wait and then shoot again in repeated fashion?

The thing that frustrates me about Nikon is that they really have no reason to hold back when it comes to competing in the Cinema DLSR market.  Why are they stepping in so timidly when they can really just go all out with at least one of their cameras and tweak it for Cinema use.  Put in a robust codec, LOG Profile... You know just get serious and kick Canon in the teeth.  Even if they didn't go all out and do a 4K camera, why not a 2.5k D800 or D7100? 

The D5200 comes so close to giving people what they want in an affordable Hybrid camera and yet such basic flaws in the camera that don't seem to need to be there.  How much more would it cost them to ask Pros what they should deliver in Cinema Nikon?  As long as they price their cameras under Canon they'd likely be successful as heck.  Still the D5200 is a heck of a bargain.  I can't wait to see what the deal is with the D7100.

As for the D5200 vs 5Dmk3 footage holding up when tweaked in NLE, there are actually people who have worked with the D5200 footage and have been able to make adjustments with good results from the D5200 internal codec.  Whatever they did it works much better than you'd think.  Then you also still have the option to add an external recorder to the D5200 and it would still be cheaper than the 5Dmk3.

Thanks Andrew.  Once again beautiful images.  I must say i'm shocked at the low light quality of the D5200 and I also must say that the 5D3 looked very nice as well.  It holds onto so much of it's IQ in low light.  I'd love to see the D5200 get a hack to tweak the image a bit and see if we might get even finer grain and more DR minus banding.

I'm wondering what the exact upgrade is over the D5200.  It's hard to really see the real benefit except for perhaps Photo side with the lack of an AA filter.  I suppose the detail level will be higher.  They tempt us with the Headphone jack, tho I don't understand why they didn't include that on the D5200, since it's clearly a camera aimed more towards video with the Articulated LCD.

Now I'm confused!  This d5200 footage and some other tests on persona view look really really good.  I had a GH2 with the 14-140 that was stolen last week so I'm in the market for a new camera.  I was looking at the GH3, used A77 and maybe even breaking the bank and moving into FS100 or AF100 as I eventually want to invest in a camcorder.  I mostly do low light music performances, in controlled environments but sometimes standing on a speaker in the middle of a crowd.  Budget is a huge issue right now so I'm leaning toward replacing my GH2 with another good Dslr and saving for the camcorder with proceeds from using the Dslr.

  Now that the background is out of the way, what do you think is a good direction to go?  I don't know much about nikon glass and I'm not sure what my total cost will be once I kit out a camera with enough lenses to get me going.  I still have a 25mm f1.4 pan lens.  I'm really looking to buy a camera now that will allow me to get superb low light video now and share as many lenses as possible with a FS100 or whatever is out 6-7 months from now when I'm ready to make that investment.

One thing that you might want to consider is that the D5200 does have a bit of an issue with the Skew on the live view LCD.  I was paying with one in the store and it was really bad on the LCD.  The recorded image may not be as bad, but that could be an issue if you're moving around in a hand held manner. 

I do think the D5200 would help you with your low light shooting.  Sharing lenses with an FS100 won't be an issue due to the Sony mount being able to take on any lens pretty much.  So no matter what DSLR you choose, it shouldn't be an issue for using with an FS100.  In fact any future Mirrorless camera shouldn't be an issue for you.

As an alternative to the BMCC i've been trying to find the cheapest option for Good Detail, Low Light, low Aliaising and Moire and Dynamic Range and it appears that we've found that in the Nikon D5200!  I can't express how happy I was to see the good news about the HDMI output being as good as it is.  That just makes it all the more enticing.

I must say that i'm shocked at the D5200.  I had absolutely ZERO interest in it until seeing this.  I'm very intrigued by this camera.  It's not perfect but it's very interesting.  Can't wait to see some more tests and examples.  I was very interested in the D600/800 so this just adds to the list of Nikon's that I can look at.

All of this is great IMO.  The Cons of the Metabones Speed Booster are insignificant IMO.  There's always some limitation of flaw in the effort to get more and more out existing lower cost tech.  As it always has been.  Right now tho, this opens up a lot of possibilities and I can't wait to see how this all plays out.  Hopefully the m43's version works out just as good.  

It's not like RED where NO ONE had a Scarlet for years.   From what i've read it seems they're going to start shipping in greater quatity soon.  Besides we all know what time it is.  That camera is amazing at that price point.  Nothing else near it can compare to what you can do with it shooting RAW.

As for Nikon.  I think that it's been underrated just how nice the image can be from that camera.  The Dynamic Range is really good and with the exception of low light shooting and some Aliasing and Moire issues, it's a really pleasing image.  The Mosaic Filter seems to be the answer to the Aliasing and Moire, so really the only weakness is the low light aspect, but even then it should be fine in most situations save for really dark scenarios where you can't use lights.  That's not going to be an issue for everyone.  The extra edge goes to the stunning photo quality you get as well.  IMO a top notch Hybrid Camera. 

My personal top cams:

1. BMCC - just the closest I can imagine getting to an ARRI Alexa at my budget level.

2. Nikon D800 - Just a gorgeous image in terms of Dynamic Range and Highlight handling.  Color is highly editable using the HDMI signal.  Full Frame aesthetic.  FX and DX modes.  Also great stills camera as well.

3. Panasonic GH3 - overall great package.  Nice clean and detailed image.  Strong codec and best bang for buck camera of all.

4. Canon 5DMKIII - Excellent low light camera.  A bit soft, but still overall solid camera if doing scenes with actors rather than buildings.  The way most people doing narrative work use cameras this camera should fit the bill.

5. Olympus OMD EM5 - SOOOOO close to being a great camera.  Have to hope for 24p or a hack.

Also agree about the GoPro Hero 3, Sony RX100 and C100.  I'd also add Camcorders like the Panasonic AG-AC90 and Sony CX760v as useful tools to round out the kit and augment one of the cameras above.