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	<title>Comments on: Nikon J1 and V1 image quality first look</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.eoshd.com/content/4216/nikon-j1-and-v1-image-quality/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.eoshd.com/content/4216/nikon-j1-and-v1-image-quality</link>
	<description>The DSLR video and digital filmmaking blog &#124; Reviews &#124; News &#124; Technique</description>
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		<title>By: markusarike</title>
		<link>http://www.eoshd.com/content/4216/nikon-j1-and-v1-image-quality#comment-2788</link>
		<dc:creator>markusarike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2011 02:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eoshd.com/?p=4216#comment-2788</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fine, except you didn&#039;t put the J1 up against any other the 12 mp m43 handbag cameras like the PENs or the GF2/GF3.  The high ISO images at DPReview&#039;s studio tests tell a very different story when compared with those cameras.  

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1110/11101425nikonv1comparisonshots.asp]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fine, except you didn&#8217;t put the J1 up against any other the 12 mp m43 handbag cameras like the PENs or the GF2/GF3.  The high ISO images at DPReview&#8217;s studio tests tell a very different story when compared with those cameras.  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.dpreview.com/news/1110/11101425nikonv1comparisonshots.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.dpreview.com/news/1110/11101425nikonv1comparisonshots.asp</a></p>
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		<title>By: EOSHD</title>
		<link>http://www.eoshd.com/content/4216/nikon-j1-and-v1-image-quality#comment-2380</link>
		<dc:creator>EOSHD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2011 11:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eoshd.com/?p=4216#comment-2380</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You since then edited the wording in your post. I am tired of your propaganda and time wasting bullshit. One more troll move from you and you&#039;ll be banned.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You since then edited the wording in your post. I am tired of your propaganda and time wasting bullshit. One more troll move from you and you&#8217;ll be banned.</p>
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		<title>By: gl0g</title>
		<link>http://www.eoshd.com/content/4216/nikon-j1-and-v1-image-quality#comment-2376</link>
		<dc:creator>gl0g</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2011 07:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eoshd.com/?p=4216#comment-2376</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And how many who have said that m43 is too small have now said that the 1 series isn&#039;t. Just because some DSLR users feel that m43 is too small, doesn&#039;t mean that everybody does. Thus, even though many DSLR users have lamented the 43 sensors size, there are many more that can accept the 1 series without being hypocrites, as they never said anything. To be honest, I&#039;ve heard very few say that the sensor is too small, at least among experienced shooters. What they say is that the sensor performance is too low. And that&#039;s a factor of technology as much as size.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And how many who have said that m43 is too small have now said that the 1 series isn&#8217;t. Just because some DSLR users feel that m43 is too small, doesn&#8217;t mean that everybody does. Thus, even though many DSLR users have lamented the 43 sensors size, there are many more that can accept the 1 series without being hypocrites, as they never said anything. To be honest, I&#8217;ve heard very few say that the sensor is too small, at least among experienced shooters. What they say is that the sensor performance is too low. And that&#8217;s a factor of technology as much as size.</p>
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		<title>By: gl0g</title>
		<link>http://www.eoshd.com/content/4216/nikon-j1-and-v1-image-quality#comment-2375</link>
		<dc:creator>gl0g</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2011 07:00:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eoshd.com/?p=4216#comment-2375</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Your 30D is a DSLR, your GF1 isn&#039;t. The 12-45mm kit zoom for 43 also dwarfs the Pana m43 kit zoom, and is in fact larger than the Canon 18-55mm. Your GF1 kit zoom is about 6x6cm. As is the NEX kit zoom.

Again, I&#039;m not talking about the super-zoom. The super-zoom is a powerzoom with internal focus and zooming. That&#039;s why it&#039;s so large and heavy. I&#039;m talking about the 80-300mm equivalent. The Nikon 80-300mm equivalent is as large as the Panasonic kit zoom, and much smaller than any m43 80-300mm equivalent]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your 30D is a DSLR, your GF1 isn&#8217;t. The 12-45mm kit zoom for 43 also dwarfs the Pana m43 kit zoom, and is in fact larger than the Canon 18-55mm. Your GF1 kit zoom is about 6x6cm. As is the NEX kit zoom.</p>
<p>Again, I&#8217;m not talking about the super-zoom. The super-zoom is a powerzoom with internal focus and zooming. That&#8217;s why it&#8217;s so large and heavy. I&#8217;m talking about the 80-300mm equivalent. The Nikon 80-300mm equivalent is as large as the Panasonic kit zoom, and much smaller than any m43 80-300mm equivalent</p>
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		<title>By: gl0g</title>
		<link>http://www.eoshd.com/content/4216/nikon-j1-and-v1-image-quality#comment-2374</link>
		<dc:creator>gl0g</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2011 06:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eoshd.com/?p=4216#comment-2374</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ruhayatx. 

No. You need to consider the FOV, not the focal-length. A 50mm on APS-C will have as much perspective distortion as a 75mm on FF if you want the same magnification, as you&#039;ll be standing in the same spot to take the shot. The same goes for a 85mm vs a 135mm, a 35mm vs a 50mm or a 14mm vs a 24mm. It&#039;s all about the FOV, and thus the distance you need to get the magnification you want. It doesn&#039;t matter what sensor-size and thus focal-length get you that FOV.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ruhayatx. </p>
<p>No. You need to consider the FOV, not the focal-length. A 50mm on APS-C will have as much perspective distortion as a 75mm on FF if you want the same magnification, as you&#8217;ll be standing in the same spot to take the shot. The same goes for a 85mm vs a 135mm, a 35mm vs a 50mm or a 14mm vs a 24mm. It&#8217;s all about the FOV, and thus the distance you need to get the magnification you want. It doesn&#8217;t matter what sensor-size and thus focal-length get you that FOV.</p>
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		<title>By: ruhayatx</title>
		<link>http://www.eoshd.com/content/4216/nikon-j1-and-v1-image-quality#comment-2323</link>
		<dc:creator>ruhayatx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2011 04:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eoshd.com/?p=4216#comment-2323</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Mattoid and @jbgeach

Practically, then, the logic that larger sensors introduce lesser perspective distortion holds true even if technically sensor size has no bearing on the matter? 

Example: I shoot a talking head with an 85mm lens on an EOS 5D Mk II and stand 8 feet away. To get the same shot on the EOS 60D using the same lens I would have to stand 12 feet away - therefore the perspective changes, because I had to change my position relative to the subject to accomodate the sensor restrictions.

To shoot a talking head at 8 feet away using the EOS 60D I would have to switch to a 50mm lens. This is fine. But perspective distortion will come into play when I have to use wider and wider lenses on the 60D to match the same FOV on the 5D - eg, to shoot equal to full frame 24mm on the 60D, I would need to use a 15mm (14mm) lens, which is almost fisheye territory. Hence, smaller sensors may not cause perspective distortion, but it will induce you to shoot in a way that there will be distortion at shorter focal lenses?

Is that correct?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mattoid and @jbgeach</p>
<p>Practically, then, the logic that larger sensors introduce lesser perspective distortion holds true even if technically sensor size has no bearing on the matter? </p>
<p>Example: I shoot a talking head with an 85mm lens on an EOS 5D Mk II and stand 8 feet away. To get the same shot on the EOS 60D using the same lens I would have to stand 12 feet away &#8211; therefore the perspective changes, because I had to change my position relative to the subject to accomodate the sensor restrictions.</p>
<p>To shoot a talking head at 8 feet away using the EOS 60D I would have to switch to a 50mm lens. This is fine. But perspective distortion will come into play when I have to use wider and wider lenses on the 60D to match the same FOV on the 5D &#8211; eg, to shoot equal to full frame 24mm on the 60D, I would need to use a 15mm (14mm) lens, which is almost fisheye territory. Hence, smaller sensors may not cause perspective distortion, but it will induce you to shoot in a way that there will be distortion at shorter focal lenses?</p>
<p>Is that correct?</p>
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		<title>By: ruhayatx</title>
		<link>http://www.eoshd.com/content/4216/nikon-j1-and-v1-image-quality#comment-2321</link>
		<dc:creator>ruhayatx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2011 04:25:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eoshd.com/?p=4216#comment-2321</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree. I think a G13 with 2/3&quot; sensor will probably kill off 70% of the market for the Nikon 1. There&#039;s no need for larger sensors in this market because the users have not exactly been clamouring for removable lenses, they just want better quality in the same easy to use (and easy to carry, one size fits all) package. 

What are Nikon going to do then? Probably either introduce the Nikon 2 system with APS-C, or go mirrorless in the D3200 and D5200. Which is what they should have done in the first place but didn&#039;t have the balls to do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree. I think a G13 with 2/3&#8243; sensor will probably kill off 70% of the market for the Nikon 1. There&#8217;s no need for larger sensors in this market because the users have not exactly been clamouring for removable lenses, they just want better quality in the same easy to use (and easy to carry, one size fits all) package. </p>
<p>What are Nikon going to do then? Probably either introduce the Nikon 2 system with APS-C, or go mirrorless in the D3200 and D5200. Which is what they should have done in the first place but didn&#8217;t have the balls to do.</p>
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		<title>By: ruhayatx</title>
		<link>http://www.eoshd.com/content/4216/nikon-j1-and-v1-image-quality#comment-2320</link>
		<dc:creator>ruhayatx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2011 04:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eoshd.com/?p=4216#comment-2320</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That remains to be seen but for now I am unconvinced of your statement. It seems to me that the trend for the next decade will be hybrid cameras and as it is Nikon is still struggling with video features on their lines. It seems to me that Canon seems better poised to spearhead the top end of the market, with Sony in the middle ground (and possibly m4/3 if they can squeeze in VFs into all their cameras). The entry level will be taken over by camerphones. 

Nikon will be reduced to a niche player at the upper mid to top end.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That remains to be seen but for now I am unconvinced of your statement. It seems to me that the trend for the next decade will be hybrid cameras and as it is Nikon is still struggling with video features on their lines. It seems to me that Canon seems better poised to spearhead the top end of the market, with Sony in the middle ground (and possibly m4/3 if they can squeeze in VFs into all their cameras). The entry level will be taken over by camerphones. </p>
<p>Nikon will be reduced to a niche player at the upper mid to top end.</p>
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		<title>By: ruhayatx</title>
		<link>http://www.eoshd.com/content/4216/nikon-j1-and-v1-image-quality#comment-2319</link>
		<dc:creator>ruhayatx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2011 04:09:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eoshd.com/?p=4216#comment-2319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Well. if you’ve spent years defending m43, then you’d probably understand that half the size doesn’t necessarily mean too small.&quot;

Well, when we&#039;ve been told over the past 5 years that anything smaller than APS-C is too small to be taken seriously as a photographic imager, than it stands to reason that anything smaller than m4/3 must be FAR too small to be taken seriously at all.

Basically, I see this as a divine comeuppance to the detractors of the 4/3 standard. Now that their own have thrown out such a tiny sensor, let&#039;s see if they will continue to walk the talk they have been talking these past few years. And evidently, some have, to their credit. Hence the bitterness among even hardcore Nikonians.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Well. if you’ve spent years defending m43, then you’d probably understand that half the size doesn’t necessarily mean too small.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, when we&#8217;ve been told over the past 5 years that anything smaller than APS-C is too small to be taken seriously as a photographic imager, than it stands to reason that anything smaller than m4/3 must be FAR too small to be taken seriously at all.</p>
<p>Basically, I see this as a divine comeuppance to the detractors of the 4/3 standard. Now that their own have thrown out such a tiny sensor, let&#8217;s see if they will continue to walk the talk they have been talking these past few years. And evidently, some have, to their credit. Hence the bitterness among even hardcore Nikonians.</p>
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		<title>By: ruhayatx</title>
		<link>http://www.eoshd.com/content/4216/nikon-j1-and-v1-image-quality#comment-2318</link>
		<dc:creator>ruhayatx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2011 04:05:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eoshd.com/?p=4216#comment-2318</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The non-collapsible m43 normal zooms are hardly any smaller than the APS-C non-collapsible normal zooms. The telephotos are. And the same is true for the 1, the normal zoom is hardly any smaller, but the telephoto is.&quot;

That&#039;s not true. The kit lens on my Canon 30D positively dwarfs the kit lens on my GF1, ad they both cover more or less the same FOV (28-85mm) and have similar apertures (f3.5-5.6). Also, when talking about size, you should also take into account the girth - Leica M mount lenses can sometimes be as long or in fact longer than the Leica R SLR equivalents (in fact many Olympus OM Zuiko SLR lenses are shorter than the Leica M lenses), but when you look at the diameter, there&#039;s where the biggest difference lies.

The Nikon 1 superzoom may or may not be shorter than the m4/3 equivalent, but the filter thread of 72mm is bigger than even my APS-C EOS standard zoom. The Panasonic 14-140mm is 10mm smaller than the Nikon 1 superzoom, and 5mm smaller than my APS-C EOS standard zoom.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The non-collapsible m43 normal zooms are hardly any smaller than the APS-C non-collapsible normal zooms. The telephotos are. And the same is true for the 1, the normal zoom is hardly any smaller, but the telephoto is.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not true. The kit lens on my Canon 30D positively dwarfs the kit lens on my GF1, ad they both cover more or less the same FOV (28-85mm) and have similar apertures (f3.5-5.6). Also, when talking about size, you should also take into account the girth &#8211; Leica M mount lenses can sometimes be as long or in fact longer than the Leica R SLR equivalents (in fact many Olympus OM Zuiko SLR lenses are shorter than the Leica M lenses), but when you look at the diameter, there&#8217;s where the biggest difference lies.</p>
<p>The Nikon 1 superzoom may or may not be shorter than the m4/3 equivalent, but the filter thread of 72mm is bigger than even my APS-C EOS standard zoom. The Panasonic 14-140mm is 10mm smaller than the Nikon 1 superzoom, and 5mm smaller than my APS-C EOS standard zoom.</p>
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		<title>By: lonnieshull</title>
		<link>http://www.eoshd.com/content/4216/nikon-j1-and-v1-image-quality#comment-2297</link>
		<dc:creator>lonnieshull</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Sep 2011 18:13:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eoshd.com/?p=4216#comment-2297</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, I&#039;m wondering where you got the Sony info too.  

This new ICL camera and it&#039;s small sensor are the perfect indication Nikon&#039;s weakness in the market (to compete with m4/3 and the NEX). Nikon has seen the profitability of this segment of the market (small mirrorless cameras with big sensors) and were &quot;forced&quot; to introduce something or be left behind (Pana, Oly and Sony already have at least a two year head start). Yet since they have no ability to manufacture large sensors that the buyers in this market are after, they are stuck with this offering. I have no doubt that given their druthers, Nikon would have loved for this camera to have a m4/3 or larger sensor. But Sony&#039;s new cash cow in the camera market is the NEX line and they aren&#039;t going to shoot themselves in the foot by giving away that competitive advantage. Why would Sony sell sensors to a rival camera company for a product that would end up competing head to head with the NEX line?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I&#8217;m wondering where you got the Sony info too.  </p>
<p>This new ICL camera and it&#8217;s small sensor are the perfect indication Nikon&#8217;s weakness in the market (to compete with m4/3 and the NEX). Nikon has seen the profitability of this segment of the market (small mirrorless cameras with big sensors) and were &#8220;forced&#8221; to introduce something or be left behind (Pana, Oly and Sony already have at least a two year head start). Yet since they have no ability to manufacture large sensors that the buyers in this market are after, they are stuck with this offering. I have no doubt that given their druthers, Nikon would have loved for this camera to have a m4/3 or larger sensor. But Sony&#8217;s new cash cow in the camera market is the NEX line and they aren&#8217;t going to shoot themselves in the foot by giving away that competitive advantage. Why would Sony sell sensors to a rival camera company for a product that would end up competing head to head with the NEX line?</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Calabros</title>
		<link>http://www.eoshd.com/content/4216/nikon-j1-and-v1-image-quality#comment-2294</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Calabros</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Sep 2011 15:06:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eoshd.com/?p=4216#comment-2294</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nikon has introduced a System, not just two models. making a system is like hitting the nail...it takes time and energy to go through deep of the market. they can play with price (as anyone does) and can replace the sensor with anything else anytime.. if they had the gut to inject a new category, they will have muscle to press it
despite that, (with this kind of phase detection enabled fast sensors) a mirrorless D5100 will be a Pushing the Trigger for NEX and a mirrorless D3100 replacement will be Shot in the Head for m4/3 
as Canon is dancing with the stars in Hollywood, next decade photography race will be between Nikon and Sony]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nikon has introduced a System, not just two models. making a system is like hitting the nail&#8230;it takes time and energy to go through deep of the market. they can play with price (as anyone does) and can replace the sensor with anything else anytime.. if they had the gut to inject a new category, they will have muscle to press it<br />
despite that, (with this kind of phase detection enabled fast sensors) a mirrorless D5100 will be a Pushing the Trigger for NEX and a mirrorless D3100 replacement will be Shot in the Head for m4/3<br />
as Canon is dancing with the stars in Hollywood, next decade photography race will be between Nikon and Sony</p>
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		<title>By: andymarc chesterman</title>
		<link>http://www.eoshd.com/content/4216/nikon-j1-and-v1-image-quality#comment-2290</link>
		<dc:creator>andymarc chesterman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Sep 2011 09:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eoshd.com/?p=4216#comment-2290</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Im sure my HX9 can do better and it cost me less than 200 quid. lol]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Im sure my HX9 can do better and it cost me less than 200 quid. lol</p>
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		<title>By: gl0g</title>
		<link>http://www.eoshd.com/content/4216/nikon-j1-and-v1-image-quality#comment-2288</link>
		<dc:creator>gl0g</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Sep 2011 08:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eoshd.com/?p=4216#comment-2288</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No effort at all, I&#039;m merely sharing what I know.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No effort at all, I&#8217;m merely sharing what I know.</p>
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		<title>By: EOSHD</title>
		<link>http://www.eoshd.com/content/4216/nikon-j1-and-v1-image-quality#comment-2285</link>
		<dc:creator>EOSHD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Sep 2011 23:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eoshd.com/?p=4216#comment-2285</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I very much agree with EC2 that all Canon need to do to erase the majority of potential Nikon 1 sales is to bring out the G13.

I expect the delay might be something to do with a 2/3&quot; sensor for it, since it is about time the line had a proper leap rather than another very small incremental update.

Also, the PowerShot S100 would be a better choice than the Nikon J1 for many.

Nikon really do need to grow a pair of balls and start competing. Nobody who the J1 is aimed at cares about the speed of its image processor.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I very much agree with EC2 that all Canon need to do to erase the majority of potential Nikon 1 sales is to bring out the G13.</p>
<p>I expect the delay might be something to do with a 2/3&#8243; sensor for it, since it is about time the line had a proper leap rather than another very small incremental update.</p>
<p>Also, the PowerShot S100 would be a better choice than the Nikon J1 for many.</p>
<p>Nikon really do need to grow a pair of balls and start competing. Nobody who the J1 is aimed at cares about the speed of its image processor.</p>
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