External Monitor for Canon 1D C - HDMI Record/No Record

[lafilm]

Does anyone (AR, ES) know a quality external monitor that works well specifically with Canon 1D C?

If it records DCI 4K (4096 X 2160) thats great...

However, what about just as external monitor (no recording) with peaking, zebras, guides, etc..to help with exposure....seems the HDMI out only records 1080p (maybe thats changed?) 

What if you want to record 4K and just view footage to external?  At this point are you viewing 1080p even though internally you're recording 4K?

Appreciate if anyone knows and can recommend, Thanks

 

[Andrew Reid]

There's no 4K HDMI output on the 1D C unfortunately!! Capped at 1080p.

[lafilm]

Well that answers that. Wow...Thank you..

So I have to ask, if you're gonna use monitor just for exposure on 1D C  - while shooting 4K  (4K seems more difficult to expose properly...and now Shogun is out)...

What monitor would you recommend while shooting 4K?...Is there one you find superior?

Would be nice to attach to top of cam...but also rig if you feel it's a must..

Thanks Andrew!

[Andrew Reid]

SmallHD do nice stuff.

Check out the DP4 for small and cheap.

I was deeply impressed with the new Sidefinder though - and that without the finder is thin and small too, but really high quality screen.

Zacuto EVF is small but pokey-small as a monitor. I don't love it.

[lafilm]

Thanks again, Andrew..

An opportunity came up..a friend has an acquaintance wedding videographer he knows pretty well..has vouched for the guy..

He's selling his 1D C - mostly used for photos he says..75%..and it's in excellent shape...for $7,000 (US)..includes 2 extra batts and original box and access..

He has not listed it yet on eBay or Craigslist..just put the word out with his sphere of influence...Now that NAB is over I'm ready to purchase..

I'm either going with a 1D C or A7s with Shogun...my budget is around 13K (including lenses) overall (been saving for 2 years) but for what I need must have a small footprint,

Any advice is appreciated!

 

[lafilm]

Nice set up Franz! Thanks for sending the pic..

How do you like the cam over the last 2 years? Are you still happy with it? Would the lack of internal exposure put you off if you were purchasing new in 2015?

Any advice for someone about to jump in the shark filled waters?

[lafilm]

Thanks Franz. Are you saying that at the minimum you must have a Macbook Pro Retina to be able to edit the 1D C footage without issues? By internal exposure, I mean has it been difficult to shoot with the 1D C because it does not have preaching, zebras, etc..? If so, what are you using for exposure?

Thanks for the info on Komputerbay, I figured there had to be something for what they are charging.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

You can transcode the 1DC footage to ProRes (either 4K or 1080p) before editing/colouring, then any computer from 10 years ago will work smoothly. 

Another tip, has anybody seen how the HDMI output on the 1Dc looks when the camera is set to 4K 1.3x crop mode? 

With any 1080p recorder, (like a 400$ ninja or 500$ BM Video assist) you can recorder this feed to Prores is Clog. It looks every bit as good as 4K images scaled down to HD in post, the 1Dc just does it internally. 

This is a great option for people who want to maintain highest quality from the 1DC BUT need a quick turnaround by having 1080p 4:2:2 C-Log ProRes files straight from the SD card that edit natively on any PC, with same sharpness as 4K scaled down in post, without transcoding time or downscaling time. All you lose is the ability to crop and to deliver in 4K obviously.

The 1080p HDMI feed when the camera is set to 1.3x 4K mode (pixel-to-pixel readout) is a better 1080p image than Canon's own C100 and C300, just the best 108 I've ever seen. Canon in their showcase release videos tried to point out that advantage of 1.3x HDMI for quick turnarounds but it hasn't been known to many 1DC shooters that are struggeling in fast jobs from ingesting 4K mpeg, then transcoding to ProRes, then downscaling to 1080, while all of this can be done with any 500$ recorder in real time. 

Of course recording internally and editing the native 4K Mpeg files and outputting the final project in 4K is the highest quality method but this is just for those who want to deliver in 1080p whilst maintaining the sharpness of 4K minus the transcoding/downscaling time and inconvenience. 

Also broadcasters adore these 1Dc 1080p HDMI 4:2:2 files much more than handing them 4K Mpegs. So it's a wonderful solution for handing nroadcasters files straight from SD cards. 

Don't judge the HDMI output quality from when it's set to FF 1080p, it's horrible and just lile the 5D mkIII, and not great when set to 1.6x crop either, set it to 4K then the magic appears.  

[lafilm]

You can transcode the 1DC footage to ProRes (either 4K or 1080p) before editing/colouring, then any computer from 10 years ago will work smoothly. 

Another tip, has anybody seen how the HDMI output on the 1Dc looks when the camera is set to 4K 1.3x crop mode? 

With any 1080p recorder, (like a 400$ ninja or 500$ BM Video assist) you can recorder this feed to Prores is Clog. It looks every bit as good as 4K images scaled down to HD in post, the 1Dc just does it internally. 

This is a great option for people who want to maintain highest quality from the 1DC BUT need a quick turnaround by having 1080p 4:2:2 C-Log ProRes files straight from the SD card that edit natively on any PC, with same sharpness as 4K scaled down in post, without transcoding time or downscaling time. All you lose is the ability to crop and to deliver in 4K obviously.

The 1080p HDMI feed when the camera is set to 1.3x 4K mode (pixel-to-pixel readout) is a better 1080p image than Canon's own C100 and C300, just the best 108 I've ever seen. Canon in their showcase release videos tried to point out that advantage of 1.3x HDMI for quick turnarounds but it hasn't been known to many 1DC shooters that are struggeling in fast jobs from ingesting 4K mpeg, then transcoding to ProRes, then downscaling to 1080, while all of this can be done with any 500$ recorder in real time. 

Of course recording internally and editing the native 4K Mpeg files and outputting the final project in 4K is the highest quality method but this is just for those who want to deliver in 1080p whilst maintaining the sharpness of 4K minus the transcoding/downscaling time and inconvenience. 

Also broadcasters adore these 1Dc 1080p HDMI 4:2:2 files much more than handing them 4K Mpegs. So it's a wonderful solution for handing nroadcasters files straight from SD cards. 

Don't judge the HDMI output quality from when it's set to FF 1080p, it's horrible and just lile the 5D mkIII, and not great when set to 1.6x crop either, set it to 4K then the magic appears.  

​Thank you Ebrahim for this information.Very helpful! That is certainly a little known fact. I don't remember Canon promoting this.

​The Zacuto has zebras and the camera has a histogram. But to be honest I mostly expose by eye.

You dont need a Macbook Pro - What you need is a FAST HD. Thats why it works on the Macbook Pro Retina, it has PCI Express Flash which rates around 900mbs. I could image you could cut on a new Macbook Air as well, as they have very fast Flash Hds.

​Franz you must have one heck of an eye sir! Thank you for the tips.

 

[lafilm]

You can transcode the 1DC footage to ProRes (either 4K or 1080p) before editing/colouring, then any computer from 10 years ago will work smoothly. 

Another tip, has anybody seen how the HDMI output on the 1Dc looks when the camera is set to 4K 1.3x crop mode? 

With any 1080p recorder, (like a 400$ ninja or 500$ BM Video assist) you can recorder this feed to Prores is Clog. It looks every bit as good as 4K images scaled down to HD in post, the 1Dc just does it internally. 

This is a great option for people who want to maintain highest quality from the 1DC BUT need a quick turnaround by having 1080p 4:2:2 C-Log ProRes files straight from the SD card that edit natively on any PC, with same sharpness as 4K scaled down in post, without transcoding time or downscaling time. All you lose is the ability to crop and to deliver in 4K obviously.

The 1080p HDMI feed when the camera is set to 1.3x 4K mode (pixel-to-pixel readout) is a better 1080p image than Canon's own C100 and C300, just the best 108 I've ever seen. Canon in their showcase release videos tried to point out that advantage of 1.3x HDMI for quick turnarounds but it hasn't been known to many 1DC shooters that are struggeling in fast jobs from ingesting 4K mpeg, then transcoding to ProRes, then downscaling to 1080, while all of this can be done with any 500$ recorder in real time. 

Of course recording internally and editing the native 4K Mpeg files and outputting the final project in 4K is the highest quality method but this is just for those who want to deliver in 1080p whilst maintaining the sharpness of 4K minus the transcoding/downscaling time and inconvenience. 

Also broadcasters adore these 1Dc 1080p HDMI 4:2:2 files much more than handing them 4K Mpegs. So it's a wonderful solution for handing nroadcasters files straight from SD cards. 

Don't judge the HDMI output quality from when it's set to FF 1080p, it's horrible and just lile the 5D mkIII, and not great when set to 1.6x crop either, set it to 4K then the magic appears.  

​Ebrahim, have you seen the brand new Sound Devices field monitors, the PIX-E Series?

The 5" looks like it could be perfect for the  Canon 1D C  (unless I'm missing something).

[sam]

Here is my opinion as an owner/op imaging nerd which may or may not be useful in your decision for the purchase of a 1dc or A7s and/or monitor/evf

Current cameras:  1Dc (purchased from its debut so lots of time spent with it).   Fs700 ( 12 bit 4k raw or CD's version of Slog2 in various qualities of prores with 7Q).   7d

Current camera monitors: Zacuto evf pro and Odyssey 7

I think most of the advice from the above posts coincides with my experience.   I personally think access to both an evf and a monitor (or combination of the two) is necessary for most projects.

  The Zacuto gets the job done, but I second Andrews comments about it.   The 7q with its oled screen and exposure and focus aids has almost everything I currently want and need for monitoring (except for custom luts which should be in the next firmware update, and anamorphic desqueeze).  But, the 7Q as a monitor/recorder  is too heavy to hotshoe mount on the 1dc, so the small size and covertness of the 1dc are thrown out because it will need a rig.  Probably preaching to the choir, but for outdoor use a monitor hood really is necessary as well. (Portabrace works well)   After seeing all the goodies from NAB, on paper the sidefinder seems the most practical and budget friendly for the features to me for the 1dc. If an external recorder is needed, on paper I would then probably go Gratical evf and the PIX-E5 or E5H.  If small size or covertness isn't a concern then I would go 7q and Gratical.  Keep in mind this is from an owner/op viewpoint.

Also Great advice from Franz on the Komputerbay cards.  My ratio of returns to keepers was 1:3 and 1 failed after that in just under 1 year which KB replaced free of charge.

Have you made a decision on the 1dc vs a7s?    If there is any advice I myself would take,  I think Oliver Daniel's constant stance about spending money on lighting is the best, but it it also depends on your purposes and if making $$$ has anything to do with your decision.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lafilm]

Here is my opinion as an owner/op imaging nerd which may or may not be useful in your decision for the purchase of a 1dc or A7s and/or monitor/evf

Current cameras:  1Dc (purchased from its debut so lots of time spent with it).   Fs700 ( 12 bit 4k raw or CD's version of Slog2 in various qualities of prores with 7Q).   7d

Current camera monitors: Zacuto evf pro and Odyssey 7

I think most of the advice from the above posts coincides with my experience.   I personally think access to both an evf and a monitor (or combination of the two) is necessary for most projects.

  The Zacuto gets the job done, but I second Andrews comments about it.   The 7q with its oled screen and exposure and focus aids has almost everything I currently want and need for monitoring (except for custom luts which should be in the next firmware update, and anamorphic desqueeze).  But, the 7Q as a monitor/recorder  is too heavy to hotshoe mount on the 1dc, so the small size and covertness of the 1dc are thrown out because it will need a rig.  Probably preaching to the choir, but for outdoor use a monitor hood really is necessary as well. (Portabrace works well)   After seeing all the goodies from NAB, on paper the sidefinder seems the most practical and budget friendly for the features to me for the 1dc. If an external recorder is needed, on paper I would then probably go Gratical evf and the PIX-E5 or E5H.  If small size or covertness isn't a concern then I would go 7q and Gratical.  Keep in mind this is from an owner/op viewpoint.

Also Great advice from Franz on the Komputerbay cards.  My ratio of returns to keepers was 1:3 and 1 failed after that in just under 1 year which KB replaced free of charge.

Have you made a decision on the 1dc vs a7s?    If there is any advice I myself would take,  I think Oliver Daniel's constant stance about spending money on lighting is the best, but it it also depends on your purposes and if making $$$ has anything to do with your decision.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

​

lafilm, did you come to a conclusion? bought or tested something? 

I am curious and will need a monitor with waveform soon as a client requested it.

 

 

​Sam and Franz; Thank you guys for all the helpful info. I purchased the 1D C. Got a great deal and some SanDisk CF cards and additional battery charger. 3 Canon EF lenses and ND filters. Bag and new tripod. Picked up an I Mac. Transcode here we come. Camera is heavier than I remember but feels solid. The 4K footage looks much better than my old GH4, and even surprised by the HD after sharpening. 

Still don't have EVF or monitor.

A little confused about the EVF situation have seen different people use these two: 

Zacuto - Z-Finder EVF for $764 

Zacuto - Z-Finder EVF Pro (3.2") for $950

​Whats the difference between these two as per the 1D C?

The regular EVF hooks straight where LCD monitor like 5D3, but can't see how EVF Pro does that? Looks like you have to mount that somewhere else (a rig, on top of hotshot) Which sucks, because the Pro version has the exposure help, and the regular EVF just blows the picture up (x 2.5)  to help focus. Of course I amy be wrong about that, please let me know?

Maybe one of you guys have the EVF and/or the Pro EVF (or used both) and can suggest either/or?  If neither are good maybe just small (smallhd?) 5 inch monitor on top of camera itself?, but lose stealth. I do like the fact that Zacuto EVF (regular version) helps with holding camera steady.

If we only had an EVF that you can hook up to the back of the LCD that has ALL the exposure features, we'd be in business. 

Maybe another company makes one?  I don't think the Gratical hooks up to the back of the LCD?

Thanks

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

​

 

Zacuto - Z-Finder EVF for $764 

Zacuto - Z-Finder EVF Pro (3.2") for $950

​Whats the difference between these two as per the 1D C?

 

​All are electronic viewfinders, meaning a complete 3.2" LCD + an optical loup, they're fed through HDMI, so neither of these fit on the back LCD, Zucoto z-finder (just the loup without an LCD) is the one that does & uses the camera's LCD, much cheaper of course than those.

The difference between the EVF models (pro) are small things like the type of loup, how it attaches, diopter, http://www.zacuto.com/zfinderevf

Anyway it's an old product and a tiny LCD, why not get a Small HD 5" that will work as both a VF & a field monitor. https://www.smallhd.com/lp/502/

And one small 500$ product we still haven't tested but look great and is a recorder: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicvideoassist

I think for a 1dc a 5" LCD on the hotshoe and a loup solution is the simplest way to go.

[lafilm]

​All are electronic viewfinders, meaning a complete 3.2" LCD + an optical loup, they're fed through HDMI, so neither of these fit on the back LCD, Zucoto z-finder (just the loup without an LCD) is the one that does & uses the camera's LCD, much cheaper of course than those.
The difference between the EVF models (pro) are small things like the type of loup, how it attaches, diopter, http://www.zacuto.com/zfinderevf

Anyway it's an old product and a tiny LCD, why not get a Small HD 5" that will work as both a VF & a field monitor. https://www.smallhd.com/lp/502/

And one small 500$ product we still haven't tested but look great and is a recorder: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicvideoassist

I think for a 1dc a 5" LCD on the hotshoe and a loup solution is the simplest way to go.

​​Ebrahim, thank you so much for all this information, sir! You've been a a great help!

After looking at these options I completely agree with your last set up for the 1D C. The 502 looks fabulous! Especially since you cannot record 4K off the HDMI, but at least you can see the image on the small hd for exposure.

Such a shame about Canon's lack of help and firmware for the 1D C. Just plain weird! No Love!!!

[lafilm]

I think the only difference between pro and not pro is the swivel loupe, which is very convenient. After some research I found out

the alphatron EVF has a waveform, I might change to that one... Then my pro will be for sale in the EU cheap ;-)

​Thanks Franz, Alphatron looks very nice but seems a bit pricy. Going to go with the SmallHD 502. 

If you have any new footage on the 1D C, please share if you can. Such little footage out there from fellow users.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

If you have any new footage on the 1D C, please share if you can. Such little footage out there from fellow users.

​Goes to you too! Show us some C-log ungraded 4K eye candy when you can. Almost none out there.

[lafilm]

​Goes to you too! Show us some C-log ungraded 4K eye candy when you can. Almost none out there.

​Will do! (after some practice).

​this is an example of some mostly handheld stuff shot and edited on one day in 4k:

 

​Looks great Franz! You're nailing the focus there man!

 

[mkabi]

Sorry, given that there are a few 1DC owners.

I have to ask, how does external recording look, even if it is 1080p 8bit 4:2:2 on the 1DC. I'm hoping that someone that has a decent external recorder and a 1DC can show some sample footage.

And, does it output 1080/60p externally? If so, how does that look compared to the "mushy 1080/60p" internal that looks like "upscaled 720/60p"

[SR]

Haven't used this, but this looks promising for $360: LILLIPUT 663/O/P2 7" IPS (waveform, vector scope, peaking)
 

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

12 hours ago, mkabi said:

Sorry, given that there are a few 1DC owners.

I have to ask, how does external recording look, even if it is 1080p 8bit 4:2:2 on the 1DC. I'm hoping that someone that has a decent external recorder and a 1DC can show some sample footage.

And, does it output 1080/60p externally? If so, how does that look compared to the "mushy 1080/60p" internal that looks like "upscaled 720/60p"

FF HDMI output looks similar to internal (5D/softish)

S35 HDMI output looks similar to internal (very sharp)

1.3x HDMI output looks similar to internal (4K downsampled to 2K - extremely sharp)

-The HDMI frame rate is capped at 30p (i.e., no 60p),

-The HDMI resolution is capped at HD (i.e., no 4K)