Axel Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 ... and Proxy, for what reason ever. There are already test clips on the net, confirming what longtime Apple users suspected anyway: ProRes422 - quite a robust data rate (Arri Amiras default codec), @ 122 mbps (compared to 184 mbps ProResHQ) probably surviving serious grading. ProResLT - @85 mbps sufficient for "longplay", if you just do a simple primary CC it will be visually indistinguishable to HQ and double the recording time to a 64 GB SD card to stunning 1h 10 minutes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgharding Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 They should add 444 too if they haven't. It's a lot more colour resolution and great for secondaries. It's what I use on Alexa when I use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 But probably RAW will be smaller than 444 (12bit vs 3x10bit) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurtinMinorKey Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 This the first time i updated my cam since 1.2. These extra codecs will make the camera much more versatile (for things like interviews). Also, I thought the original ProRes on the BMCC was 444 (i've never actually used it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmcindie Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Why should a bayer sensor do 4:4:4? It doesn't have 4:4:4 color information anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurtinMinorKey Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Why should a bayer sensor do 4:4:4? It doesn't have 4:4:4 color information anyway. I'm not expert, and I see what you mean. But i thought that chroma sampling happened after the debayer: the debayer gives you RGB for each "pixel". Chroma sampling cuts down on the color information for each pixel. Going from 444 to 422 you should reduce the bitrate by about a third. I think the Alexa has a bayer pattern as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxotics Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Yes, if you save RAW you only need to save 12 bits per pixel (red, green or blue) and then de-bayer in post. 444 assumes pre-debayering, that is, the codec works on full RGB values, so like araucaria said, you're now saving 3x10 bits = 30 bits per RGB pixel vs 12 bits per single-channel pixel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxotics Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 The BMPCC's biggest weakness, I thought was the aliasing/moire. My guess is that the sensor is not true 1080, but something else, which required line-skipping. I wonder if the new camera will have a different sensor or higher res? Anyone have any idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronChicago Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 The BMPCC's biggest weakness, I thought was the aliasing/moire. My guess is that the sensor is not true 1080, but something else, which required line-skipping. I wonder if the new camera will have a different sensor or higher res? Anyone have any idea? Ditto. I'm wanting so bad to have a Frankenstein Monster mash-up of GH4 and BMPCC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurtinMinorKey Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Yes, if you save RAW you only need to save 12 bits per pixel (red, green or blue) and then de-bayer in post. 444 assumes pre-debayering, that is, the codec works on full RGB values, so like araucaria said, you're now saving 3x10 bits = 30 bits per RGB pixel vs 12 bits per single-channel pixel. So in this application, 444 is just an expanded version of the raw de-bayer. It doesn't actually contain any extra information that you couldn't reconstruct with the debayer algorithm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turboguard Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 I just want to make sure I'm understanding this correct (not big on codecs really), the original prores in the BMPCC is still the best one? But this added new ones will def be useful for longer shoots (like said earlier, interviews etc)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 So in this application, 444 is just an expanded version of the raw de-bayer. It doesn't actually contain any extra information that you couldn't reconstruct with the debayer algorithm? The only source of information comes from the bayer sensor in the form of raw data,if you save that, that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmcindie Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 But i thought that chroma sampling happened after the debayer: the debayer gives you RGB for each "pixel". It does but half of the colors are interpolated anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richg101 Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Though a great addition, I'd be very wary of taking advantage of the longer recording times. I wouldnt dream of using the pocket camera for longer than 20-30mins without a turn off and cool down! They get damn hot. When a 64gb card is full I know it's time to give the camera a rest before boards start distorting and fractures appear on solder tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axel Posted July 19, 2014 Author Share Posted July 19, 2014 Though a great addition, I'd be very wary of taking advantage of the longer recording times. I wouldnt dream of using the pocket camera for longer than 20-30mins without a turn off and cool down! They get damn hot. When a 64gb card is full I know it's time to give the camera a rest before boards start distorting and fractures appear on solder tracks. It has been tested and reported (test with external battery solutions) that after a while dead pixels appear. Fortunately, they vanish again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I just want to make sure I'm understanding this correct (not big on codecs really), the original prores in the BMPCC is still the best one? But this added new ones will def be useful for longer shoots (like said earlier, interviews etc)? That's correct, the previous Prores they had was Prores HQ, which is the best Prores in the camera. Then you have Prores, then Prores LT, then Prores Proxy. In Prores Proxy you start noticing the compression more, but Prores LT can give you great results at much smaller file sizes than Prores HQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 So in this application, 444 is just an expanded version of the raw de-bayer. It doesn't actually contain any extra information that you couldn't reconstruct with the debayer algorithm? Since raw captures all the raw sensor data, it's impossible to capture more info with any other codec. If that was the case, raw wouldn't make sense. maxotics 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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