Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

GH2 sensor goes into impressive Panasonic G6, adds 1080/60p and focus peaking!

65 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

panasonic g6

The Panasonic G6 has been announced and to be honest it is a bit of a surprise, culling very little in the way of features from the GH3 and quite possibly taking video to new levels on a mid-range camera. Based around the GH2's multi-aspect sensor (18MP total, 16MP effective), the sensor is larger than the one in the GH3 (1.86x crop vs 2x), the new camera updates the AVCHD codec (adding 1080/60p) and even focus peaking, something the GH3 doesn't (yet) have!

[url=http://www.eoshd.com/content/10172/gh2-sensor-goes-into-impressive-panasonic-g6-adds-108060p-and-focus-peaking]Read the full article here[/url]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

It seems the multi-aspect sensor feature is still not in use in the G6 if you look at the pixel sizes of the stills:

GH2: http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/systemcamera/gms/gh2/specifications.html

"[3:2] 4,752 x 3,168, [16:9] 4,976 x 2,800"

 

GH3: http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/systemcamera/gms/gh3/specifications.html

"[3:2] 4,608 x 3,072, [16:9] 4,608 x 2,592"

 

G5: http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/systemcamera/gms/g5/specifications.html

"[3:2] 4,608 x 3,072, [16:9] 4,608 x 2,592"

 

G6: http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/systemcamera/gms/g6/specifications.html

"[3:2] 4,608 x 3,072, [16:9] 4,608 x 2,592"

 

Even though the G5 and G6 appear to use the same sensor as the GH2, neither of them records 16:9 and 3:2 stills with a larger crop according to the official specifications.

 

So where does this often-quoted crop of 1.86× actually come into use other than when the GH2 shoots 16:9 stills/video and 3:2 stills?

Is there any proof that the G5 and G6 use this larger crop in video mode even though we know they're not using it in stills mode? Because otherwise it seems like the larger sensor of the G5 and G6 is no real advantage over the GH3.

 

Or could a firmware hack bring the full sensor area back into use?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I'm really in love with the body design, wouldbang/10.

Mondo likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Great B camera for the GH3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

"25p is only available at 20Mbit in MP4 mode on the PAL camera, whilst 1080/60/50p is available in AVCHD 2.0 and MP4 at 28Mbit."

 

Strange...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

this is worth getting just for the 50/60p 1920x1080 so you can do slo mo at that resolution at last with the gh2 sensor

and also just wait for the hack to happen Im sure it will if it a venus engine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Here's some footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oijsASQQ6k&feature=player_embedded

 

Looks like GH2 to me. 

Tempted to pick one of these up.

 

I saw that video last night, along with several others (which I posted below) but although colors seem to match, resolution is way off! That's soft, incomparable to what the GH2 can deliver. As much as I'd love for this to be a true GH2 improvement/replacement, I'm afraid the video capabilities are not up to par. I really hope I'm wrong, but if these videos are any indication of video image quality, then it's a bummer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qhS49-_nHo

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHoCFgzwibs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I does have Focus Peaking!!!
I wonder if it is better than the GH2 for video, the new processor should be able to better 28Mbps.

It has a 3.5mm Mic input but appears not to have headphones.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I saw that video last night, along with several others (which I posted below) but although colors seem to match, resolution is way off! That's soft, incomparable to what the GH2 can deliver. As much as I'd love for this to be a true GH2 improvement/replacement, I'm afraid the video capabilities are not up to par. I really hope I'm wrong, but if these videos are any indication of video image quality, then it's a bummer.
 

That's a shame. It's the same price as the original GH2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Apparently it doesn't feature the multi-aspect ratio feature, even though it's using the 18 megapixel GH2 sensor. When recording video it's a crop. Panasonic are clearly just trying to protect the non-MAR Sony sensor based GH3.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

I saw that video last night, along with several others (which I posted below) but although colors seem to match, resolution is way off! That's soft, incomparable to what the GH2 can deliver. As much as I'd love for this to be a true GH2 improvement/replacement, I'm afraid the video capabilities are not up to par. I really hope I'm wrong, but if these videos are any indication of video image quality, then it's a bummer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qhS49-_nHo

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHoCFgzwibs

you are watchin on youtube - mega compressed so beware...- lets not write it off before we have all downloaded files direct off the camera,

If it has Venus engine inside then its hackable....its been done before by Vitaliy and Driftwood etc

P337 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Is GH3 hackable?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

No not hackable yet, though Vitaliy is working on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

gh3 kicks out 70mb/s so I dont think anyone has hacked it yet - ????

check on personalview.com and see if they have or are thinking of hacking it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

A little off-topic, but... you mentioned rack focusing whilst looking through the EVF?  Sadly, I can't figure out how do touchscreen rack focus at all on the GH3 :(  Looked everywhere, can't figure out which settings I've got wrong.  Very much looking forward to the GH3 shooters guide!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

you are watchin on youtube - mega compressed so beware...- lets not write it off before we have all downloaded files direct off the camera,

If it has Venus engine inside then its hackable....its been done before by Vitaliy and Driftwood etc

 

I understand YouTube compression and those videos' softness has nothing to do with it (though I deeply wish it did). That can only come from either a bad encoding on the uploader's side or indeed the camera's true capabilities. Watch any good GH2 video uploaded to YouTube and you'll see there's no such softness in them, in spite of YouTube's compression. Here's one, for instance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcKuGoMN-VQ

 

Still, I'm rooting for this camera to be what all of us are hoping.

andy lee likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Very much looking forward to the GH3 shooters guide!

 

 

It's coming.

 

Have you tried the Touch AF options?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Focus peaking!   If this ends up hacked and looking like the GH2 I might pick one of these up! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

this camera keeps the legacy of the gh2 moving forward for a few more years

Im very pleased this G6 has been released - Panasonic are listening that we all say the gh2 sensor has some special magic about it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The encoding on those YT streams is absolute garbage.  They must throttle bandwidth and encoding quality depending on the account type because they're not even at the same quality as several YT "partners" that I semi-regularly check out there.   That or the encoding done by the uploader was very bad as well.  

 

I honestly don't understand why people still use it in this capacity.  I'll add duplicate streams of stuff I put on VIMEO, acknowledging the ubiquity of YT but I don't actually share those links with people.  

 

In the case of both sites whatever you upload gets further compressed (heavily) so your upload needs to be of exceedingly high quality if you expect anything decent by the time a stream goes live.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

The encoding on those YT streams is absolute garbage.  They must throttle bandwidth and encoding quality depending on the account type because they're not even at the same quality as several YT "partners" that I semi-regularly check out there.   That or the encoding done by the uploader was very bad as well.  

 

I honestly don't understand why people still use it in this capacity.  I'll add duplicate streams of stuff I put on VIMEO, acknowledging the ubiquity of YT but I don't actually share those links with people.  

 

In the case of both sites whatever you upload gets further compressed (heavily) so your upload needs to be of exceedingly high quality if you expect anything decent by the time a stream goes live.

 

That is absolutely correct, but just to make it double clear: while YouTube compression can bring a bazzillion types of artifacts it will not render your perfect full HD resolution, carefully encoded video into something this soft: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oijsASQQ6k&feature=share&list=UUxSt5kmZG3dNXsBJqtzIKmQ (or, in other words, it cannot turn GH2 worthy footage into that low resolution video)

And if there are differences made between partners and other regular channels, then those aren't to blame either, because you can find perfectly detailed videos like this one in the same PanasonicLumixVideo channel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT-2VF3-fWo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

That is absolutely correct, but just to make it double clear: while YouTube compression can bring a bazzillion types of artifacts it will not render your perfect full HD resolution, carefully encoded video into something this soft: (or, in other words, it cannot turn GH2 worthy footage into that low resolution video)

And if there are differences made between partners and other regular channels, then those aren't to blame either, because you can find perfectly detailed videos like this one in the same PanasonicLumixVideo channel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT-2VF3-fWo

Judging by the video link I think this is shot in 60P Auto mode.  But it does look like the codec may be an issue.  I think the detail is there, but the codec (AGAIN) is holding it back.  This is strange considering the AVCHD on the GH3 has excellent detail.  Or, they recorded 60P with mp4 with is considerably worse than AVCHD.  We won't know until we get the actual files.  Just keep up hope, Panasonic hasn't let us down just yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Panasonic are listening that we all say the gh2 sensor has some special magic about it!

 

That sounds weird. If the sensor's "character" (is that what you mean by "special magic"?) is so desirable to warrant it being used again, then why is its multi-aspect-ratio potential – being a characteristic of this sensor that is appreciated by many just like its readout speed and low-light performance – left unused at the same time?

I understand that you are probably only referring to the look the sensor produces and not to what format or image circle it covers. But both are features belonging to the same component and if one is dropped (or, better to say, disabled), that is sort of disappointing and lowers the appeal of the remaining features.

 

It seems as if they want to keep this feature out of the mid-range and entry-level cameras so vehemently that even G cameras of a later generation than the GH camera originally using it aren't allowed to have this feature. What a tease – and a good reason to not praise the use of the GH2 sensor.

 

I have no problem with new camera models using a slightly dated, but proven to be good sensor. I like the G6 overall and might end up buying it to step up from my GF2 and get a little more serious about video (unless there is a GX2 announcement coming in the meantime that is more convincing). But locking out one of the sensor's nice features in the firmware leaves a bad taste.

 

The only good thing I can see is that it could be a hint for a future GH model having a (working) multi-aspect ratio feature again, hence why they continue to keep this feature out of the GF, GX and G lines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

@Andrew may be in the best situation to assess this since he just finished the DPReviews' video section of the GH3 where he compared it to the GH2 but I leave this question open to anyones speculations.

 

Since no one who actually had hands on this camera did any proper video tests (DPReview should have send EOSHD lol) we are forced to estimate quality until those tests are available but if we assume it has a sensor just as good as the GH2/G5 and a processor as good as the GH3 which do you expect the video quality to be closer too?  GH3 or GH2? 

 

Specifically my worries are going back to the noise levels of the GH2 , seeing the banding return and all this stuff:

 

A major area of improvement over the GH2 is with under exposed areas of an image. It’s important to be clear what this means. This doesn’t just cover shadows in a night shot at ISO 3200. We’re talking gardens in the shade at ISO 200. Almost any shot has an area of shadow where the light is dimmer than it is compared to the rest of the scene. Anything that is exposed to the left. Usually you don’t notice much noise in these under exposed areas when you crush the shadows, but if you’ve underexposed to protect a large highlight area like a window from blowing out and you want to correct the underexposed interior, here the GH3 does much better than the GH2. Better colour, smoother gradation, more contrast, far less noise. It is just easier to work with in post. -http://www.eoshd.com/content/9920/gh3-review

 

Let my put this question another way; do you think the issues of the GH2 compared to the GH3 mostly lie in the sensor or the processor of the camera?

 

Aside from that wouldn't an increase of bit-rate solve everything?  Since they both use h.264 in (I assume) IPB, does the GH2 at 50Mbps equal the GH3 at 50Mbps?  And isn't there an Intra (ALL-I) hack for the GH2 as well?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites