Stills to video, need help

[Matt Y]

This site was recommended to me by someone on Dpreview.  I was wondering if someone could help me on here.  

I am an avid photographer.  Get paid to do it but only on the side because my day job pays the big bills.   Been doing it for years and love it.  Currently shooting with and Olympus OMD E5 (first version) and have a bunch of lenses.  Recently I was asked to shoot a documentary on my Uncle who is conducting an orchestra, in Armenia, on a piece of music he wrote.  Very cool.  His story is very interesting as to how he got to this point so that is what I am going to tell.  I love new challenges and looking forward to this whole adventure both from the video side and the overall experience

My main question is "What camera do I buy?".  Before you answer, Here are the details and my thoughts:

• I do NOT have to record the symphony playing the piece.  That is done in house with their audio and video crew.  
• It is just me doing this.  No assistants, help in any way.  Simplicity is key.
• Going to do extensive interviews at home.  Tell story here.  The Armenia trip is going to be narrated after the trip with short and informal interviews on location.  
• I am being paid in gear.  Around $3 to $4K. 
• I need lights for interviews (was thinking 3 of these: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01934RL0U?psc=1&smid=A3TGEBV1SIMBHY).  Not married to these but figured they have good CRI and are flexible.
• Audio wise was thinking a Rode vidomic pro for the camera, and wireless lavalier (There is possibility of nice, wireless lavalier being provided by a friend).  If not, was thinking around about 2 zoom H with lavalier attached.  
• Concerning camera, leaning towards Olympus EM1.2 (b/c I am familiar with OLY) or the GH5.  I like these 2 because they have stabilization and I want avoid a gimbal.  I Armenia, I have to pack and be lightweight.  
  • I am selfishly looking at this for a reason to get a camera upgrade too.  Wondering if anyone is shooting with GH5 for stills professionally?
  • On the other hand, I am tempted by fuji XT2 and sony 6500.  Would prefer Fuji over sony for stills.  Can sell all current gear and go this way but I think a severe case of GAS maybe
• Final cut pro is being provided to me.

So in summary, without pixel peaking (in photo world), what would you do?  What is the best way to go with this?  Which camera would you buy for yourself?

Thanks in advance.  Matt 

[mercer]

Welcome and congrats on the work... and new gear. Based on what you stated, I would say go with the Olympus, you're already familiar with it, it has better stabilization than the GH5 and unless you plan on doing some heavy grading in post, the 10bit video from the GH5 isn't going to help you all that much. Plus, the Olympus is a pro photography camera, which I assume you will use it for more in the future. 

Also, look into the Olympus LS100 field recorder, the newer Olly cameras have a cool feature that helps to sync the audio in post when it is connected to the camera through the line in port.

Good luck!

Also, I am thinking of buying the E-M5ii, as a second cam for casual video but also to get started with photography. Would be very interested in hearing about the pro work you do with version 1. 

 

[maxotics]

Get a used C100 and something like the Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8.  Even without much light, it will shoot beautiful images indoors.  Use your MFT camera outside for b-roll.

[Matt Y]

Mercer and Maxotics.  Thanks for the suggestion and help.  

Mercer.  For photography I shoot families and real estate.  I purchased the omd e5 years ago and never really had a reason to switch.  It is the perfect travel camera too.  Small and discrete.    The IBIS is amazing.  I would spring for the em5ii though because, compared to the em5, it has better IBIS is better and all around quicker.  There are pros and cons with all systems, it seems.  Reach out any time.

Thanks again.  Matt

[mkabi]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

Welcome and congrats on the work... and new gear. Based on what you stated, I would say go with the Olympus, you're already familiar with it, it has better stabilization than the GH5 and unless you plan on doing some heavy grading in post, the 10bit video from the GH5 isn't going to help you all that much. Plus, the Olympus is a pro photography camera, which I assume you will use it for more in the future. 

Also, look into the Olympus LS100 field recorder, the newer Olly cameras have a cool feature that helps to sync the audio in post when it is connected to the camera through the line in port.

Good luck!

Also, I am thinking of buying the E-M5ii, as a second cam for casual video but also to get started with photography. Would be very interested in hearing about the pro work you do with version 1. 

 

I second that, given that OP has the lenses. Sell your current E-M5 (body) and get a mark 2 (body only) - in fact, get 2 of them, that way you can shoot multiple angles without having to reshoot.

The only other advice I have... because you are new to this.... look to other documentaries as a guide...

Watch for color, composition, framing - just like photography... but also look for rhythm, scene switching and B-roll shots.

Good luck.

P.S. After getting an idea of how to shoot and edit.... do some pre-planning so you know what you want to shoot so the editing is less grueling.

 

 

[EthanAlexander]

3 hours ago, Matt Y said:

• Concerning camera, leaning towards Olympus EM1.2 (b/c I am familiar with OLY) or the GH5.  I like these 2 because they have stabilization and I want avoid a gimbal.  I Armenia, I have to pack and be lightweight.  
  • I am selfishly looking at this for a reason to get a camera upgrade too.  Wondering if anyone is shooting with GH5 for stills professionally?
  • On the other hand, I am tempted by fuji XT2 and sony 6500.  Would prefer Fuji over sony for stills.  Can sell all current gear and go this way but I think a severe case of GAS maybe

You will hate the a6500. It's not a bad camera or anything like that, but coming from a camera like yours I know you'll find it frustrating to use, due to poor menu design and a lack of external buttons/dials. Plus, it's APS-C so, like you said, you'll need all new lenses.

 

43 minutes ago, mkabi said:

in fact, get 2 of them, that way you can shoot multiple angles without having to reshoot.

Just shoot 4K and you can crop in in the edit to cover up cuts. No need for two cameras, especially traveling.

[mkabi]

5 minutes ago, EthanAlexander said:

Just shoot 4K and you can crop in in the edit to cover up cuts. No need for two cameras, especially traveling.

You can do that if you want 1080p, not if you want to deliver in 4K
Also, even in 1080p... with 4K there is only so much you can do to reframe. Suppose you do what Ethan says get 1 camera and shoot dead center, also suppose you are happy with it and go back to the editing room - you are able to zoom in, perfect... you can have subject on left side of frame, you can have subject right side of frame, perfect.... But, what if you wanted a side view of the interviewee? Or, if there is an interviewer and an interviewee, and you want to shoot from behind either interviewer and interviewee... what do you do then? Reshoot....

[xenogears]

You just can't go wrong with any of these cameras, just need to work on the weakness of each one, the most important thing is to keep a nice balance between image and sound, you need to get your light right, your sound right, nice B-roll and nice interviews shots, preferably with two cameras.

I'm pretty sure that you can get a lovely image from any of these cameras, I used an Om-Em5 like 4 years ago (lovely camera btw) for a pilot show and worked perfectly fine, now I'm using two GH5 and a Sony a7s with 4k video recorder, mostly when I need a lovely full-frame look or a low lighting situation, but coming from the GH1 and now the GH5 and after using differents cameras through all these years, I can't leave keeping recommending the GH5/GH4, not only gives an image that works for almost all 90% of our video productions but something that for me is essential in the field, and is reliability, it works all the time no matter the situation, I just can count with the Lumixes, are very versatile cameras, well built, nice size, excellent options for video and audio recording.

Photo image quality of the GH5 and the OM-EM1 MKII are very similar, maybe the autofocus tracking system on the Oly could be more reliable.

Enjoy your production.

[scotchtape]

I would highly suggest doing some practice shoots before embarking on this project if it is important to you.

 

Even though I did a ton of research, my first times lighting interviews were very sad and even now I am constantly learning and trying new things. To do a good job you need to be able to control the lighting or your natural light better be really good. If you are using low powered LEDs, there is no way those are going to compete with the sun. If you bring lights then you need light stands, and then do you need a power or batteries, if batteries how many, how will you keep them charged etc... Lots of things to think about! 

 

I recommend monitoring the audio during the interviews, especially if you don't know anything about mic placement etc.  Without listening you are just banking on getting lucky, so many things could go wrong like wind noise, or their clothing rubbing on the mic (ask me how I know).

 

For b-roll, slowmo 60fps to 24p works a treat with a gimbal.  I love using my crane even if it is not perfect.  It's really convenient for grabbing dynamic shots you can't otherwise get. But you don't need it depending on your tolerance for shaky cam and just doing simple pans and tilts.

 

I am using the GH5 and a6500.  For 60fps 4k the gh5 is great considering the price and performance.  For wireless lav I'm using the Sennheiser avx.  The latency is annoying but it's so convenient for omb because the auto gain just works and you don't have to worry about clipping as much.

 

Good luck traveling with all this stuff! Try to keep it simple!

[mat33]

Doing an interview by yourself is a challenge, trying to engage with the interviewee during the interview and not being hidden behind the camera the whole time, monitoring audio levels and keeping focus all at the same time is difficult for even an experienced operator. I would think about getting a Canon with Dual pixel auto focus for the interview, maybe an 80D or used 70D with the 50mm STM prime and a used XC10 for a 2nd angle and B roll with the 4K and great IS. The DPAF gives you one less thing to have to worry about and you can focus on the interview. There is no point having super crispy 4K only to find that the subject moved and is out of focus.

[OliKMIA]

18 hours ago, maxotics said:

Get a used C100 and something like the Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8.  Even without much light, it will shoot beautiful images indoors.  Use your MFT camera outside for b-roll.

The low light thing is important in your case. Are you going to shoot a lot of indoor/ unlit stuff ? In this case the M4/3 cam might be a little limited. Other than that the GH5 is great, Oly stab is very good if not better. Sony I just don't like the colors but you'll have better low light performance.

[fuzzynormal]

1 hour ago, OliKMIA said:

The low light thing is important in your case. Are you going to shoot a lot of indoor/ unlit stuff ? In this case the M4/3 cam might be a little limited. Other than that the GH5 is great, Oly stab is very good if not better. Sony I just don't like the colors but you'll have better low light performance.

Olympus 5-axis stabilization is a lot better than Panasonic.  The GH5's is nice, but it doesn't compete with what I was used to on my EM5II.

Having great IS, while cool, is not something I really look for when making certain documentaries.  It's not a bad thing for the camera to have some kinetic energy going for it.  I like Cinéma-vérité.  If a filmmaker appreciates that sort of movement, then superior IS isn't a big consideration.

However, an Olympus IS camera paired with an Olympus OS lens it's sort of crazy at how it can smooth stuff out.  Depends on the look you're going for.

Since the OP is already an Oly guy, he should just stick with it.  Not only is it an awesome stills camera, but the EM1MII is 4k and has great colors.  If you want a nice lens to shoot interviews, the Voigtlander f0.95 will offer shallow DOF on m43.  I prefer the 42.5mm for interviews, but the 25mm is good too.  It'll give you plenty of exposure to work with in low-light too.  It's not perfect wide open, but the image is still good and useable, IMHO. 

Unless you're wanting to shoot in absolute darkness as cleanly as possible, then I guess consider the Sony's. 

Lighting wise, at since you can shoot low-light these days with any camera, look at two really small battery op LED's and something like this guy:

https://photographyandcinema.com/products/d-fuse-softbox

With two LED's and ambient light, putting together a nice 3-point-lit interview shot is simple and easy.

To keep audio compact and easy I'd recommend the Sennheiser ew100 wireless lab straight into the camera.  I'm not a fan of shotgun mics mounted to the camera, but if you NEED that ambient room audio it can be helpful.  Personally, I'd rather isolate my subject's audio as a priority...but that's only if you're focusing on a single subject.  Other needs require different solutions.

[Matt Y]

OK.  Everyone's input has been 100% fantastic.  I have a couple more questions for the group. You guys are AWESOME!  Here is what I am doing:

• I am purchasing Open box GH5.  My Em1.2, I can take back.  The GH5 is really good for stills (not quite there with EM1.2) but close enough and I can use all my lenses.
• A few questions:
  • Should I use Lexar UHS II cards or sandisk UHS I cards?  Have used Sandisk in the past but there is a deal on Lexar
  • I am going to shoot in 4K 30fps.  I understand the shutter speed rule of 2x FPS.  How "solid" is that rule?  What i am wondering is how much latitude I have with that rule until it becomes noticeable?  1-stop?  2?  None?

Thanks again!

[scotchtape]

Wow you are lucky you asked those questions.  Do not buy the Lexar cards (nothing wrong with them they are great) because they do NOT work well with Panasonic cameras for some reason.  Very glitchy and laggy.  Search for "best SD cards for gh5", someone has a blog on it showing the speed of different cards. I experienced these problems myself with Lexar and Panasonic.

 

There was another post a while ago about a video breaking the 180 rule (consensus was the guys shot with shallow dof and scenes without too much motion so it wasn't as noticeable).  I try to stick to it as much as possible because shooting a scene with a lot of motion at high shutter speed looks weird and stuttery.  However if you don't have too much motion in the scene or can hide the motion with shallow dof you can minimize the distracting aspects.  Search for some video comparison and see what you can live with.  Some people seem not to care.

[mercer]

48 minutes ago, Matt Y said:

OK.  Everyone's input has been 100% fantastic.  I have a couple more questions for the group. You guys are AWESOME!  Here is what I am doing:

• I am purchasing Open box GH5.  My Em1.2, I can take back.  The GH5 is really good for stills (not quite there with EM1.2) but close enough and I can use all my lenses.
• A few questions:
  • Should I use Lexar UHS II cards or sandisk UHS I cards?  Have used Sandisk in the past but there is a deal on Lexar
  • I am going to shoot in 4K 30fps.  I understand the shutter speed rule of 2x FPS.  How "solid" is that rule?  What i am wondering is how much latitude I have with that rule until it becomes noticeable?  1-stop?  2?  None?

Thanks again!

Hmm... curious why you chose the GH5? Except for a couple features, there's really nothing the GH5 can do that E-M1 Mark II cannot. And with your background with Olympus, it really seems like a no brainer.

Not that the GH5 is a bad camera, but in your case, the GH5 almost seems like it should be a 3rd or 4th choice.

Either way, good luck with it and your shoot.

[Matt Y]

Mercer.  And to the group.  Since you all are experts, regarding the camera dilemma, here is more insight and questions regarding the EM1.2 and GH5

• This documentary is going to be shopped around to a bunch of different places.  PBS, HBO, etc.  My uncle has a publishing agency behind this, he has been in the music industry for 40 years and he knows how to promote and well connected.  The sentence before is NOT(NOT NOT NOT) meant to brag but to state the point that I don't want the video quality to be the determining factor between this getting picked up or not.  This project freaks me out and excites.
• Regarding the camera:
  • I am doing long interviews.  Hours.  Would prefer to do it in 4K so the editor has a lot of head room.  The EM1.2 is limited to 30 mins.  It seems to me a distraction but you all know best.  If there is an easy/fluid way to get around this, let me know.
  • From what I have read and seen on youtube (my only source) the quality at 4K 30fps out of GH5 is better than OMD.  Also, if the requirements from editor changes to just HD, I understand that the HD quality out of GH5 is better too.

The EM1.2 was purchased 2 weeks ago from the Oly refurbished store. I can get a full refund.  I do really like the camera and it fits well in hand compared to the GH5.  But, the GH5 is an excellent video camera and a very good stills camera.  Thanks again for the great input!!!

[mercer]

23 minutes ago, Matt Y said:

Mercer.  And to the group.  Since you all are experts, regarding the camera dilemma, here is more insight and questions regarding the EM1.2 and GH5

• This documentary is going to be shopped around to a bunch of different places.  PBS, HBO, etc.  My uncle has a publishing agency behind this, he has been in the music industry for 40 years and he knows how to promote and well connected.  The sentence before is NOT(NOT NOT NOT) meant to brag but to state the point that I don't want the video quality to be the determining factor between this getting picked up or not.  This project freaks me out and excites.
• Regarding the camera:
  • I am doing long interviews.  Hours.  Would prefer to do it in 4K so the editor has a lot of head room.  The EM1.2 is limited to 30 mins.  It seems to me a distraction but you all know best.  If there is an easy/fluid way to get around this, let me know.
  • From what I have read and seen on youtube (my only source) the quality at 4K 30fps out of GH5 is better than OMD.  Also, if the requirements from editor changes to just HD, I understand that the HD quality out of GH5 is better too.

The EM1.2 was purchased 2 weeks ago from the Oly refurbished store. I can get a full refund.  I do really like the camera and it fits well in hand compared to the GH5.  But, the GH5 is an excellent video camera and a very good stills camera.  Thanks again for the great input!!!

Okay, you should have opened with that... LOL. Yeah, the GH5 is the smart choice then with its 10bit 4K. Maybe add on the XLR unit and get a Rode NTG for in camera audio, alongside a wireless set up or some small recorders and lavs.

Also, just an idea, if you are interviewing some of the musicians, it could be cool to take the musician outdoors, and have them play something outside... a quick musical interlude could be an interesting, different way to introduce them.

Sounds like an awesome project... good luck with it!

[Matt Y]

One more question for the group.  Thinking about the metabones XL adaptor for the GH5.  I know if vignettes on the 18-35 sigma b/c you need the ultra.  but for other FF lenses, do you see the vignetting too?  Thanks a ton...

[OliKMIA]

2 hours ago, Matt Y said:

• • Should I use Lexar UHS II cards or sandisk UHS I cards?  Have used Sandisk in the past but there is a deal on Lexar
  • I am going to shoot in 4K 30fps.  I understand the shutter speed rule of 2x FPS.  How "solid" is that rule?  What i am wondering is how much latitude I have with that rule until it becomes noticeable?  1-stop?  2?  None?

 

Same, get the Sandisk. I have this one, works perfectly in all mode (4k 10bits, 4k60, etc.). However you will need a new card with the 400 Mbps firmware update coming "this summer" according to Panasonic.

It's better to follow the shutter rule but actually you can choose to set the shutter angle directly on the GH5. It's very important to be careful of the Sync thing between the light frequency (50 or 60 Hz) and the shutter while shooting indoor with artificial lighting in the background otherwise you'll have a lot of weird "strobing" effect.

[Matt Y]

What is shutter angle?  this is a new term...

IS the shutter angle easy to set?