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Filipe Samora

No Joke - RAW 4K on the 5D Mark III

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony Cameras

Do not touch the button! Do not take a cookie! No joke!

Everytime there's a negative involved, you're starting to think otherwise. :grimace:

The big joke here is Canon. Period. :yum: Though I'm not sure that's even funny. They should really up their game with their con-/prosumer camera line-up. Like, how significant the 5DmkII and T2i/550D have been. So meaningless are their releases nowadays. If you look at Panasonic, Sony, even Fujifilm, Olympus and Nikon, they've made leaps in these last few years.

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4 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

1st rule of fight club...don't talk about fight club. 

Perhaps! OR perhaps it's an ultra-sophisticated April Fools where the people calling April Fools are being fooled. As in, "Hey dude, I heard you like April Fools, so I put an April Fools in your April Fools so you can be fooled while you're not being fooled"... an April Fools Inception, if you will pardon the mixing of pop culture references.

Alex did post this in response:

Quote

Nope, I would rather say it's the whole truth as long as no one talks about continuous recording:

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=18300.0

So perhaps there really is some consolidation of the incremental but significant developments that have been achieved over the last few months, like 10 bit, centered 5x zoom, etc, plus some new development (fixing the static preview problem in 5x zoom 10 bit, maybe?) that is genuinely exciting and going to make these higher resolutions with lower bit depths actually usable, albeit with time limit on recording. And Alex is riffing on ML's history of April Fools pranks by making a genuine announcement on April 1st.

Just some idle musings...

EDIT: In fact, this is looking quite likely. Alex appears to be in the early stages of delivering lossless DNG compression

https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=18443.msg182074#msg182074

EDIT 2: I downloaded the test build and am 5 minutes into a 3168 x 1320 24p crop mode recording at 14 bit lossless as I type. Preview framing is not correct so it's only good for locked off shots in its current incarnation. Also it's MLV lite, so I think there's no sound.

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I stopped recording after 11 minutes. It's safe to say it's continuous. So yes, there is a Santa Claus if Santa Claus = continuous 24p compressed RAW at 3168 x 1320 (max vertical resolution without going wider than 2.4:1). Here's a DNG:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8trg0exly76nx9a/m01-1531_000000.dng?dl=0

Santa Claus is yet to bring correct preview framing while recording or sound. Let's hope it doesn't take until April 1st 2018.

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28 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

I stopped recording after 11 minutes. It's safe to say it's continuous. So yes, there is a Santa Claus if Santa Claus = continuous 24p compressed RAW at 3168 x 1320 (max vertical resolution without going wider than 2.4:1). Here's a DNG:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8trg0exly76nx9a/m01-1531_000000.dng?dl=0

Santa Claus is yet to bring correct preview framing while recording or sound. Let's hope it doesn't take until April 1st 2018.

This is pretty amazing, am looking forward to future developments. After doing my research and watching a ton of videos... I really don't know why I would ever want to shoot on something else. The image is too undeniable. With Hunter's Alexa LUT, there is also some beautiful highlight and shadow rolloff. And with the different LOG conversions... you use CineLOG, correct? Ther are so many options for post workflows.

Do you know the max continuous resolution and frame rate when shooting in 2:35?

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7 minutes ago, mercer said:

This is pretty amazing, am looking forward to future developments. After doing my research and watching a ton of videos... I really don't know why I would ever want to shoot on something else. The image is too undeniable. With Hunter's Alexa LUT, there is also some beautiful highlight and shadow rolloff. And with the different LOG conversions... you use CineLOG, correct? Ther are so many options for post workflows.

Do you know the max continuous resolution and frame rate when shooting in 2:35?

I'm getting continuous 24p at 3168 x 1320, which is 2.4:1. At the moment, vertical resolution doesn't go any higher than 1320. It's far from being usable at the moment, so hold your horses.

Agreed that the image continues to amaze and yes, I'm still doing Cinelog. What's the deal with Hunter's lut for Alexa - any links, particularly on how to develop the DNGs pre-lut?

@Filipe Samora I thought your name might be an anagram:

APRIL FO... (er)...A..I...M..S.... so not quite an April Fool's joke :)

 

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I meant with the 1.13 or 1.23 ML version, not this update.

I first found out about Hunter's LUT from this video...

That video was actually the reason I decided to go 5D3 instead of GH5.

And this is the video that was referenced in the description of the above video...

 

It seems it's just a LUT specifically designed to get closer to an Alexa look and highlight rolloff. It seems the implementation of the LUT is just like a Resolve-ProRes4444 workflow. But he claims little if any color correction or grading is needed after the LUT.

He also says he finds better shadow/highlight rolloff when exposing to the center or slightly to the left with -1 stop. He admits it's not great for shadow noise, so it cannot work in every shooting scenario but his tests show better skin tones and saturation with this method. 

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Look, this development is potentially huge. It's generally agreed that 5D3 MLRAW gives a wonderful image, especially in terms of colour, and comparisons with the Alexa are often made. While it may not have incredible dynamic range, it's still very respectable at around 11.5 stops. To date, 5D3 ML footage has fallen down in terms of its resolution. Because of pixel binning, the 1080p image suffers from a general softness and slight but noticeable aliasing. Its deficiencies are clear when compared with the downsampled-from-4K 1080 of the C100, for example, or even the in-camera 1080 of the GH5.

Resolution for the sake of resolution is a fool's game. Recently, I was at a screening of the art collective AES+F. These guys' work is based on a slick aesthetic, in part commenting on the world of commercial advertising. The screen was huge. I was sitting in the middle of the theatre, and I was wearing glasses. There was a question and answer session at the end and somebody asked about 4K. AES+F replied that the work was in 4K, but had been presented in 2K because the projector was 2K, but it made zero difference to the appreciation of the piece. If the final image has enough resolution, it's incredibly difficult to separate 2K from 4K. The difference is there. But it doesn't matter.

Back to Magic Lantern and the Alexa. It has been noted that the Alexa's 2.8k is ideal for a 2K or 1080p delivery as the downsampling counteracts the softness that is inherent to the debayering process. And this is exactly what we're seeing today with Magic Lantern for the 5D3. As I type, my camera is recording a 3072 x 1286 losslessly compressed 14bit RAW file to the card. It's a 1.5x downsize from this resolution to the DCP spec of 2048 x 858, eliminating softness and giving a sharp, clear image. And the camera has been running for 30 minutes continuously.

Admittedly, I'm getting a greyscale preview with a low refresh rate, no sound, and a 1.8x crop of my full frame sensor. But if what A1ex is suggesting in his "April Fools" actually comes to fruition, these issues may no longer be issues. It's an exciting time to be an owner of a 5D3.

Respect to Magic Lantern

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Truth is we've had the ability to shoot well above 2K for ages in crop mode. People whinge and whine about crops, apparently oblivious to that newfangled invention: the wide angle lens.

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That is why I've broken my rule of only owning vintage lenses....because of ML I now own a 8mm Sigma and Tokina 11-16 which at first made me feel a little sick with their soulless character...but they counteract ML crop on the 5D3 beutifully and can be graded to 'approximate' a nicer lower contrast similar to my preferred 40-60 year old lenses.

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How are you guys dealing with grayscale preview in high res crop modes? I regularly use the 3x full colour 1920 x 1080 crop_rec with a Tamron 24-70, which pretty much lives on my 5D, to get me that 70-200 reach without changing lenses. But I haven't found a use for the 5x zoom higher res modes too often, other than locked off landscape shots. I mean, you can't do reframing or focus pulls in grayscale.

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@hyalinejim I haven't used the crop modes much to date, mostly just testing them.

@Hans Punk I've got a Tokina 11-16mm too, ugly bokeh compared to my Leicas; the Sigma 20mm f/1.8 is better, but not exactly a wide in crop mode. The search for the ultimate affordable ultra-wide continues.

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*Sound of stampede of people going to eBay and buying 5D Mark III*

Well done Magic Lantern.... Mind is still spinning, cannot quite get my head around it.

Anyone comment on rolling shutter in the 3K and UHD crop modes at 24p? Is it much worse than 1080p?

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