Jump to content

Close
Photo

Digital Bolex D16 cinema camera gets huge upgrade

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply

#21
Zach

Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:50 PM

Zach

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 302 posts

Yeah I have to disagree BurnetRhoades. Its not being lazy if it provides great quality. From what I'm reading about the Bolex, the audio looks to be pretty legit. 



#22
Mirrorkisser

Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:04 PM

Mirrorkisser

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 187 posts

What a nice and romantic project, doubt this will ever go anywhere. By the time they are ready to produce in masses (if they ever will be), consumer camcorders will be on the level of a sony f55.

 

Kudos though for trying.


  • Leang likes this

#23
markm

Posted 30 January 2013 - 07:29 PM

markm

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 640 posts

Those can still get proper off board sound, my point is that most DSLR shooters are using cheaper recorders which quality could be easily matched if not raised by the camera's internal audio, saving everyone a lot of time in post.

For more professional uses, it's also nice to be able to plug a feed out of the sound board to the camera's XLR ports.

Whats the point recording RAW and go through workflow hell to get the best picture you can then scrimp on what is 50% by recording less than perfect sound. The BMC or digital bolex will take care of a cinema standard picture. The camera operator should worry about his picture and framing and where the focus puller is rather than be monitoring sound. OH you would monitor the sound wouldn't you? Well if yes then that has to be done by the sound recordist.

The problem is these large sensor cameras need crews and while you can get by with talking heads if your making a film you need to wire people for sound and monitor it. Okay if you want to make a test film with a single actor and very little else then maybe but I would suggest this camera is not for those sort of people who would be better served with a second hand Sony EX1 than an attention seeking film camera that requires all the tradittional  film making skills.

The BMC/Digital Bolex solve just one small problem the picture as for lights sound cast crew location script these all cost money too.



#24
Leang

Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:06 PM

Leang

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 290 posts
  • Location─░stanbul

All jokes aside, selecting (or not selecting) a camera based on its exterior looks instead of what it can do makes as much sense as selecting a camera based on its in-camera audio capabilities.  Priorities.  Get some.

 

So what you are really trying to say is that the BMCC is for all ages?!



#25
Dr. John R. Brinkley

Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:06 PM

Dr. John R. Brinkley

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 100 posts
  • LocationSan Antonio, TX

Having good onboard audio is always a plus. With quality increasing and price dropping the lines have been blurred between what is professional and what is prosumer. I think many of the complaints are not taking into account a perspective outside your own.

 

I know that many documentarians will love this camera as it has some sense of spirit and life to it, rather than being a dull functional box, and having audio will allow people to be a one man band, which is where everything is headed anyways.

 

I think the pistol grip is kind of cool. It is an aesthetic allusion to the old home movie cameras. I think most normal non film people would say this camera looks cool and actually looks like a camera, not a hard drive with a hole for a lens.

 

Also, if you read their blog you will notice that they are taking their time instead of releasing a version that then later needs to be immediately updated, like something Apple would do.

 

It's hard for me to see anything wrong with this camera. And if it never makes it to market, it will still have an impact because it's another warning shot across the bow of the big camera companies. The market is changing.


  • Bruno likes this

#26
lafilm

Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:27 PM

lafilm

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 147 posts

Obviously, any narrative piece of filmmaking intended for a theatrical audience will (should) hire a professional sound man.

 

The D16 will be a reality this year and you'll see features shot on this by end of 2013. It's been done multiple times on the 5D2, it will certaily happen on the D16.



#27
Bruno

Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:28 PM

Bruno

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 713 posts

The problem is these large sensor cameras need crews and while you can get by with talking heads if your making a film you need to wire people for sound and monitor it.

 

This camera doesn't have that large of a sensor :) The Canon DSLRs do and still many people use it for way more purposes than fiction narrative with crews, and they sure as hell would welcome better audio, regardless of the sensor size.

 

Anyway, to make it clear, I'm not arguing with that, I never was. If you're shooting narrative fiction, I totally agree with you, you shouldn't be using the camera's built in audio, but I never said so, my argument was always thinking of single shooters, as I clearly stated.

 

I've shot narrative projects where I couldn't care less if the camera even had any audio capabilities, I wasn't even worried about audio since I had the sound guys taking care of it. But I've also shot many documentary interviews where I was lighting, shooting, conducting the interview, placing mics, recording sound, carrying equipment, light kit, tripod, etc. all with virtually no setup time, and I sure as hell would have loved to have 2 decent preamps and audio meters in camera, so it would be one less device to carry, operate, power, etc... I don't see how this is being lazy really.

 

This camera is priced so any enthusiast could have one, and just like people do with DSLRs at the moment, they'll be shooting all kinds of projects in all kinds of styles, not just carefully planed fiction narrative projects. I don't understand why people would argue against features that others actually have a need for, if I only shot B&W I wouldn't be dissing the fact that the camera shoots colour. The camera already has sound and XLR inputs, so I might as well hope it will do a good job at it, because as I said before, technically and cost wise, it's not hard to make it sound at least like a $300 portable recorder.



#28
Leang

Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:29 PM

Leang

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 290 posts
  • Location─░stanbul

What a nice and romantic project, doubt this will ever go anywhere. By the time they are ready to produce in masses (if they ever will be), consumer camcorders will be on the level of a sony f55.

 

Kudos though for trying.

 

I agree.  the website tries to justify through several paragraphs an ''improved'' pistol grip!  Buy a P&C pistol grip for $20.  They work like a charm and make any DSLR Super8 retro, but let's not a make a big deal about it...  I use to have a Canon 1014xls and a Bolex H16 with a wide, medium, and long.  proper old times



#29
lafilm

Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:31 PM

lafilm

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 147 posts

Andrew,

 

Info on Anamorphic D16 from JR:

 

http://www.digitalbo...amorphic/#p2233



#30
Bruno

Posted 30 January 2013 - 08:47 PM

Bruno

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 713 posts

the website tries to justify through several paragraphs an ''improved'' pistol grip!  Buy a P&C pistol grip for $20.

 

I don't think their pistol is passive, is it?

 

Anyway, a lot of the people pick on so many details on the D16 mostly because of them being so transparent with the whole process.

 

They're not just being transparent, they're also listening, which is exactly what we keep complaining that most camera makers don't do, and they're getting too much crap because of it IMO.



#31
markm

Posted 30 January 2013 - 09:21 PM

markm

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 640 posts

This camera doesn't have that large of a sensor :) The Canon DSLRs do and still many people use it for way more purposes than fiction narrative with crews, and they sure as hell would welcome better audio, regardless of the sensor size.

 

Anyway, to make it clear, I'm not arguing with that, I never was. If you're shooting narrative fiction, I totally agree with you, you shouldn't be using the camera's built in audio, but I never said so, my argument was always thinking of single shooters, as I clearly stated.

 

I've shot narrative projects where I couldn't care less if the camera even had any audio capabilities, I wasn't even worried about audio since I had the sound guys taking care of it. But I've also shot many documentary interviews where I was lighting, shooting, conducting the interview, placing mics, recording sound, carrying equipment, light kit, tripod, etc. all with virtually no setup time, and I sure as hell would have loved to have 2 decent preamps and audio meters in camera, so it would be one less device to carry, operate, power, etc... I don't see how this is being lazy really.

 

This camera is priced so any enthusiast could have one, and just like people do with DSLRs at the moment, they'll be shooting all kinds of projects in all kinds of styles, not just carefully planed fiction narrative projects. I don't understand why people would argue against features that others actually have a need for, if I only shot B&W I wouldn't be dissing the fact that the camera shoots colour. The camera already has sound and XLR inputs, so I might as well hope it will do a good job at it, because as I said before, technically and cost wise, it's not hard to make it sound at least like a $300 portable recorder.

The point is for those like me we don't care if the camera has basic sound and I personally wonder why anyone would want this camera if they did. Yes of course if it has good sound thats a bonus but really unnecessary.



#32
Andrew Reid

Posted 30 January 2013 - 09:27 PM

Andrew Reid

    Andrew Reid - British Filmmaker - Editor EOSHD

  • Administrators
  • 3,985 posts

I really do believe people need to cut them some slack.

 

It took a company with a backing of millions of dollars (Red) years to deliver their first camera and it was very late.

 

These guys have what, $150,000 from Kickstarter? That is peanuts.

 

They are delivering a camera which does 2.4K from a global shutter for $3000!!!

 

This will be a fine back-up for the Blackmagic where rolling shutter would be an issue on the BMCC CMOS sensor.

 

The image quality from the samples so far look great.

 

The form factor is fine, it is is still a picture making box like all the other cameras. I don't see what is wild and weird about it. The handle comes off and you can rig it up like a DSLR or put it on a tripod. I do prefer the Epic's form factor but there were very few complaints about the original Bolex's form factor, and tons of interesting 16mm stuff was shot with just the handle and nothing else.


  • Xiong, Bruno and Zach like this

#33
moebius22

Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:34 PM

moebius22

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 111 posts

No one talks about this camera. The equipment house here already bought Black Magic. Bolex who?



#34
Jocelyn Deguise

Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:29 PM

Jocelyn Deguise

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts

Nice to hear that this "hypothetical" camcorder is getting an upgrade !

 

I can't shake the feeling that this camera, when (if?) it's released, will already be made obsolete by whatever GoPro has up it's sleeve for the next NAB.

 

I, for one, would never waste $3000 on a device from a company without a track record, no matter how cool the specs seem to be. Just thinking about customer support and service makes me shiver...



#35
OzNimbus

Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:42 PM

OzNimbus

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 149 posts

 By the time they are ready to produce in masses (if they ever will be), consumer camcorders will be on the level of a sony f55.

 

 

That's what you call the "Duke Nukem effect."  ...By the time that game had been released, the world had moved on.  I fear the same fate for this camera.  The digital world moves very, very fast.  Innovate, or get the fuck out of the way.

For almost a year we've been hearing an awful lot about the Bolex, but have yet to see a working prototype.   Sure, they've made several engineering changes to the handle.  That's impressive as hell.  <ok, that was sarcasm>

 

I'd love to see this camera happen, but as of right now, it's fiction.



#36
Andrew Reid

Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:54 PM

Andrew Reid

    Andrew Reid - British Filmmaker - Editor EOSHD

  • Administrators
  • 3,985 posts

Engineering samples and prototypes exist. If that is fiction then maybe there's a bit of HAL floating about in space?



#37
OzNimbus

Posted 30 January 2013 - 11:59 PM

OzNimbus

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 149 posts

Engineering samples and prototypes exist. If that is fiction then maybe there's a bit of HAL floating about in space?

Show me links to a working prototype and I will stand happily corrected.



#38
lafilm

Posted 31 January 2013 - 12:11 AM

lafilm

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 147 posts

"Engineering samples and prototypes exist. If that is fiction then maybe there's a bit of HAL floating about in space?"

 

LOL :D



#39
Andrew Reid

Posted 31 January 2013 - 12:13 AM

Andrew Reid

    Andrew Reid - British Filmmaker - Editor EOSHD

  • Administrators
  • 3,985 posts

So how do you think they shot this material? With an empty box!?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you think this bunch of engineers sit on Facebook all day with no work to do?

 

db-team.jpg

 

What WOULD they do with no working prototype? Why employ them at all?

 

Your hypothesis is fundamentally flawed.



#40
OzNimbus

Posted 31 January 2013 - 12:23 AM

OzNimbus

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 149 posts

From my understanding, all of that material was shot with a Prosilica GX camera... not a DBolex prototype.  If I'm incorrect, that's fine... I want to see this camera happen.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users