Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Bruno

Sony RX100: Getting the best video out of it...

153 posts in this topic

Bruno, thanks for this advice. My main gripe with the RX100 is trying to do 24p with the NTSC version.  Neither 30p nor 60p cleanly converts to 24p (at regular speed, not slow-mo).  It always has that weird, skipped-frame look.  

 

I've used Optical Flow rate conforming in FCP X to some success, but it's never been perfect.

 

I understand you're in a PAL region and are shooting 25p, but if anyone has any advice on getting non-jerky 24p out of this cam I'd appreciate the help.

Taxrummawoodo, Ratguity and Zach like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras

I'm actually not in a PAL region at the moment, but I ordered the PAL version of the camera exactly because of that.

It's a shame Sony won't make these cameras world cameras.

 

Anyway, when shooting 60i (30p in fact), have you tried playing around with the shutter speeds and see what looks better?

Have you used 1/50? (the closest to 1/48, which would be the same as an 180 degrees shutter in a film camera)

Some people here defend that 1/40 looks more cinematic than 1/50, maybe you could try that as well?

 

I think that might get you closer than using optical flow retimes. At least for handheld or locked camera footage it should look pretty good.

Smooth pans or dolly shots could still look a bit jittery though...

Wateexpaftnem likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question to OP (and everybody else).

 

How are you finding the RX100, especially coming from the canon 7D - are you satisfied with the quality, the fixed lens, and with it as a filmmaking tool - is it everything you expected it to be? Are you able to do the same kind of projects as before, or are the limitations of this kind of camera a bit to much. Basically, knowing what you know today - would you still have bought the RX100 as a filmmaking tool? 

 

Reason I'm asking it that I'm thinking about getting one myself - as a sole camera for minor personal projects until im more aware of my needs and then ready to buy into a system (camera and lenses).

 

Thx

Michael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've tried pretty much everything - different shutter speeds, different conform tools - and the results are hit-and-miss depending on what kind of motion is happening in the frame.  It's got to be possible to get good results though; I read that Act of Valor was shot in 30p.  Maybe it's just a bit of a painstaking process.

 

I've also thought about ordering a PAL RX100 off Ebay just for the 25p.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't find that 24p with dropped frames looks too bad (not amazing, but not bad), but it would be so much easier to just have true 24p. The biggest problem is trying to add the footage to other sources that are 24p. Otherwise I would just leave the projects as 30p, which in my opinion looks fine with a slow shutter speed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always forget that having a PAL model, the camera is a lot nicer.

 

Can you not shoot 60p and interpolate down to 24 or 23.976?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you read this? Might be worth a try if you have FCP...

 

http://philipbloom.net/2009/05/30/how-to-convert-canon-5dmk2-footage-from-30p-to-24p/

I think the Philip Bloom method is obsolete now that FCP X has Optical Flow built into its rate conforming.  Bloom is essentially tweaking the old FCP to do the same thing, only in a much more labor-intensive way.

 

I think FCP Optical Flow (essentially the same as Twixtor) is the way to go. It's just damn slow rendering and not always 100% perfect, especially if the footage was shot at the wrong shutter angle.  ReelSmart Motion Blur can help fix the shutter angle issue though. That plugin works wonders for restoring motion blur.  I blogged about that recently at rungunshoot.com.

 

And I shy away from 60p for non-slow motion because of the compression artifacts. If you have a lot of camera and/or subject movement in the frame, the compression shows up in a really obvious and ugly way.  And in my tests 60p/24p isn't any smoother than 30p/24p.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's strange, I did a bunch of tests and 60p always looked cleaner and had less compression artifacts than 30p. I know this doesn't sound right, but my tests showed otherwise. I also tried twixtor, but to me it still looked better dropping frames.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you using 24mbps FX mode in 30p? The default is 17mbps, which will definitely show more compression.

 

And I also assume you're looking at  de-interlaced footage...

 

I've stepped through the 60p footage frame-by-frame to see just how it handles motion, and it looks like every other frame gets short-changed on the bitrate.  So there will be one clean frame followed by one blocky, highly-compressed frame, followed by another clean frame, etc.  30p seems to give each frame equal bitrate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I was looking at 24 mbps in 30p deinterlaced. I recorded a tree with high detail and compared 60p vs 30p and the 60p looked better and less artifacts. That's interesting that you say that every other frame looks more compressed. I'll have to do some more tests!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

60p at 28Mbps will give you almost half the bitrate of 30p at 24Mbps, per frame.

I don't know exactly how Sony is compressing the footage though, how many keyframes it uses, their frequency, etc. which would also have an important effect on the final results.

 

60p however will give you twice as much information if you're planning on retiming using optical flow, so that could make up for the lower bit rate, helping the optical flow make a better job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe the way the avchd compression works means the difference in data between frames when shooting at higher frame rates (50p or 60p) is less than the difference in data between frames when shooting at 24p, 25p or 30p.  Because of the way the data is compressed, the codec records the difference between the next frame and its previous frame, rather than storing the specific data from each.  In all but the fastest camera movements or footage of organic from such as animal fur the fact that higher frame rates only have a little more bitrate allowance doesnt have much of an effect on actual data retained per frame.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udADA8IhKfo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Atleast with the Sony nex-5n, the compression is significantly worse when doing 50p instead of 25p. It will also alias more. So I will stick with 25p usually. Same thing with the FS700. When doing 50p, it is significantly worse compression, unless you use s&p. If you use smooth motion, it will use the buffer to record 24mbps AVCHD as a 25p stream so the compression is better.

 

I have no idea how someone can see it differently, but there it is.

 

28mbps at 50p = sucks. Just a little bit of motion and half the frames break up. Macroblocking and smoothing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question to OP (and everybody else).

 

How are you finding the RX100, especially coming from the canon 7D - are you satisfied with the quality, the fixed lens, and with it as a filmmaking tool - is it everything you expected it to be? Are you able to do the same kind of projects as before, or are the limitations of this kind of camera a bit to much. Basically, knowing what you know today - would you still have bought the RX100 as a filmmaking tool? 

 

Reason I'm asking it that I'm thinking about getting one myself - as a sole camera for minor personal projects until im more aware of my needs and then ready to buy into a system (camera and lenses).

 

Thx

Michael

 

My post got somewhat hidden away due to the "first-post-are-moderated" rule.

So i'm just bringing it to the attention of the tread (one time only).

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Thx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How are you finding the RX100, especially coming from the canon 7D - are you satisfied with the quality, the fixed lens, and with it as a filmmaking tool

 

I'm very satisfied with image quality for the camera it is. Make no mistakes though, this is not a 7D, this is a fragile little camera, if the lens decides to get stuck there's probably not much I'll be able to do about it on the spot, It'd be risky to use it even on a small production if have a team depending on it. The built in lens is great, especially at 28mm since it goes to 1.8, but more limited in longer focal lengths.

 

The dealing with menus also feels more fiddly than dealing with Canon menus, there are more confirmation screens, consumer level alerts, it's not as "mechanical" and direct as with a Canon, and the buttons are tiny, and pressing a button will most likely cause the camera to move...

 

Also, I never felt the sturdiness of a Canon 7D. I had no problem shooting under rain or snow with the 7D, I wouldn't even risk it with the RX100. There's also something about the Canon image quality that you just don't get, even if you get slightly more resolution with the RX100. 

 

But then again, these are all points that seemed obvious to me when I first got it, so no disappointment at all, it's an amazing pocket camera, and I'm thinking about shooting a small short with it, even considering all the risks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can switch off most of the hand-holding in camera then customise the shortcuts, and it's really fast. I have the left button swp between auto and manual focus with peaking for example, and right to change ISO.

 

I've used it on two shoots so far, it's done extremely well! I even attached a filter thread to the front so I could add a UV for protection and a fader ND.

 

I wish it were a faster lens when zoomed in, but you can't have it all eh? The RAW stills are quite brilliant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Similar Content

    • By Oliver Daniel
      Selling the FS5 with the FS-RAW update installed, plus factory accessories and 2 additional large capacity BP-U batteries.
       
      Included:
      Sony FS5 Camera Body
      Accessories such as Charger, Remote, CD, BP-U30 Battery.
      2 x BP-U90 Batteries (ExPro - last all day!)
      FS-RAW update
       
      Condition is great. There's a slight mark on top of the LCD and minor signs of use but nothing major that harms operation.
      Original monitor attachment changed to the superior one from SmallRig.
      Operation 12x10 hours.
      Price is £4399 + cost of shipping to anywhere in Europe.
      Bought from visuals.co.uk in the UK 10 months ago.
      Reason for sale is that I will be doing a different type of project this year where I'll be using small mirrorless cameras.
      I also have an immaculate Shogun Inferno Kit + 2 SSDs for sale at £1499.
      Message me if interested!













    • By Rodolfo Fernandes
      For sale is a almost new Sony E 35mm f/1.8 OSS Lens, i bought it this year (stil have receipt) and used it maybe 3 to 4 times, its an awesome lens and the AF on the a6500 is amazing but i almost never use it. It has no marks and is in perfect working condition, still have original box and all its accessories most of them never left the box.
       
      Price is 250€
      Location is Portugal
    • By maxotics
      Hi guys, I've been developing a gadget to vlog with Sony cameras.  As you know the screen doesn't tilt 180-degrees.  I'm selling the functional prototypes here http://maxotics.com/vlogging-mirror-for-sony-cameras/  
      However, if it doesn't cost much for me to send it to you (that is; you're in the US) I'm happy send any EOSHD reader one for free if they have a real need for it and give some feedback.  (Of course, this will only last until my supply runs out  or it goes into some "production").  You can PM me here.
      Andrew, if you're reading this and want one, let me know your address and I'll send the latest build.
    • By Nathanael McKinley Myton
       
      Ok this is not the pinnacle of artistic videography or technical prowess, but hopefully it can get by on a bit of story and a location that can't be beat. I'm not very active on this forum but I have learned a lot of technical tips from lurking in old threads so I thought I might share my recent video that I'm actually very pleased with.
      I know you guys love the tech stuff so I'll let you know the expensive equipment I used: Olympus E-M10 with a Panasonic 14mm f2.5 and an iPhone 6. Unfortunately more than I would have liked ended up shot on the iPhone, but what can you do. It was just the two of us up there and the success (and safety!) on the climb was definitely not a sure thing, so I considered it a success to get as much footage out of it as I did. 
      The Google Earth screen capture stuff I was pleased to figure out, but it could have been executed much better. I couldn't get the application to load the full resolution images of El Capitan, so I was stuck using the web browser which was laggy (on my computer anyways) and didn't have much in the way of camera controls.
      Anyways thanks for watching and hope you enjoy.
    • By Riadnasla
      Hello! Tried to sell my F3 a while ago, but at the time wanted to get enough to buy a suitable replacement camera. This time, due to a change in work, I don't care about replacing my F3 with anything else just yet. 
      It is in mint condition with under 800hrs, comes with batteries, media, and bag/case. Imgur album here: http://imgur.com/a/smLRi
      I originally paid $3k for the F3, $1k for the Gemini, batteries for ~$300ea, plus all other accessories separately. In addition to the pics, I managed to pick up a loupe that fastens to the flip-out LCD on the F3. 
      If you or someone you know is looking for a good workhorse of a 1080 camera with uncompressed log capabilities, please fire me a message with what you think is a reasonable price.