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BBC freelance cameraman tests Super 35mm 1080p on the Canon 1D C

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#1
Andrew Reid

Posted 27 January 2013 - 02:14 PM

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Johnnie Behiri has a Canon 1D C on loan at the moment as do quite a few other people. I've been watching the various footage and here's my view of how it performs...
 


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#2
Will Turner

Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:00 PM

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So in real life, how is this camera actually any better than a GH2? In fact for my uses I'd say its actually considerably worse.  ^_^



#3
Leang

Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:05 PM

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So in real life, how is this camera actually any better than a GH2? In fact for my uses I'd say its actually considerably worse.  ^_^

 

Well in "real" life, on the Asian side of the world, the wealthy are already rocking 4K televisions at a consumer level.  The problem is that the western part of the world forgets where most of our practical electronics come from.  Japan & China are different at so many levels.  "Kiyanon" (Canon) 1DC can quickly publish 4K projects for private network broadcasts or select news channels.  & by July 2014 Japan will already start broadcasting 4K mainstream.  the same way HDTV was first introduced... you either had a build in HDTV converter or you had to buy the box separate - just around when Plasma displays were coming out and high priced.  Another reality is that no one really has a broadcast 4K TV to test results from a GH2 to a 1DC and 4K lenses.  Up-scaling algorithms is something to see in time.  heads with a  4K monitor should shed some light on a GH2 vs. 1DC and describe the resolution.  I'm leaning to bet the 1DC would look superior with 4K pixel spread



#4
Andrew Reid

Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:52 PM

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Here's Philip's review

 

 

This is telling...

 

pb-canon-4k.jpg

 

I honestly can't see any more detail in the 4K grab. Maybe it was due to the mist and rain.



#5
richg101

Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:30 PM

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the 50p full hd looks really unimpressive. doesnt even match my nex5n in 50p i dont think.

s35 full hd is lovely though

#6
Sean Cunningham

Posted 27 January 2013 - 10:53 PM

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So basically shooting in 4K mode you really only benefit from its greater FOV, if the image itself isn't any sharper.

 

Good, sharp 2K can be blown up to 4K and, sweetened, ultimately looking much better than mediocre 4K.  That's an already established known.  Ultimately, 2K uprez is less of an accomplishment, or hardship, really, than what's been done very effectively in the past to improve the look-and-feel of DV blown up to HD/2K, either solo or intercut with real footage at the target presentation resolution.  

 

Faroudja does that stuff realtime and has for a really long time.  So, it really doesn't matter what the middle-class Asians (this is like a couple cities in an otherwise non-technical, non-middle class country if we're talking about China) have in their living room when they're limited to looking at highly compressed stream sources.  

 

There's a healthy percentage of Canon customers that buy for the bling-bling, all other considerations being secondary.  Mainland Asia cultures are often very tuned to appearances and showy displays of wealth, those fortunate enough to live in their non-People's Republic bubble that is.



#7
/p/

Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:28 AM

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>Canons face when

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#8
nahua

Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:17 AM

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Watched Behiri's video and I hate to be cynical.  There are some real nice skin tones, and there is great detail.  But is it so much different from the GH2/3 or C300?  And then the banding...Canon why 8-bit?  If this was 10 or 12-bit it would have been a real killer cam.  It took so much time for them to release this and it just feels like it's 2 years behind.  Just watch, NAB will have some surprises and Canon will be behind AGAIN.  Such a missed opportunity.



#9
jgharding

Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:11 AM

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No 10-bit, so drab plastic skin unless we use a ton of post-production...

 

The Canon 550D *cough £250* with magic lantern has peaking. The RX100 has peaking. The 1DC... does not.

 

Hitting self with plank now.


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HampB-LOGO-and-SIGNATURE-WEBGIF--SMALLER


#10
TC

Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:22 AM

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@jgharding Yep, spot on. A camera with a $7,000 price premium for its *video* features: a 4k firmware upgrade and headphone socket. A camera with a red C for 'cinema' on the front. And it doesn't even have focus peaking.

#11
Leang

Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:29 AM

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shoot something at 480p wide, and 1080p.  render each one respectively, 640 x 360 and then 1920 x 1080.  replay on monitor that is Full HD (1920 x 1080).

 

for the 1DC, shoot something Full HD and then 4K.   render each one according to their resolution.  Replay both shots on a nice commercial ready 4K tv or full size pro monitor.   see if you see a difference and with a pro grading specialist at the side of you.  realtime upscaling for a market to come is the reality...not so much screen grabs and blow up.   I can't even grasp the future quality of a mainstream 4K bandwidth stream hitting TV's in Japan next year.



#12
ScreensPro

Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:04 PM

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You people do realise that the 4K in that image Andrew posted was scaled and export to 1080p? Of course they are gonna look similar, when blown up, as long as the 1080p version is good (which it is, the s35 crop mode is great).

 

I'm sure the 4K image holds far more resolution though. Download the 4K files on Philip's site... They have plenty of resolution, probably 3.2k after debayering, like the early Red One.

 

Even the BMCC is not spitting out 2.4K resolution.... it has to be debayered.



#13
ScreensPro

Posted 28 January 2013 - 12:07 PM

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Good, sharp 2K can be blown up to 4K and, sweetened, ultimately looking much better than mediocre 4K.  That's an already established known.

 

By who exactly?

 

It would have to be some really dog shit, over compressed 4K .... Maybe Go Pro v Alexa.....

 

If you have two decent cameras though... one 4K and one 2K.... You WILL get better resolution from the 4K.... No amount of "sweetening" will change that.



#14
Will Turner

Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:44 PM

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I think since the 550d canon has used a business model based on conservation and strong marketing in order to survive, whereas other companies are trying to innovate to stay ahead of the game. Unfortunately, due to the way the world is constructed, marketing tends to be the most powerful tool there is. Hence the success of canons DSLR's in the video realm, considering how piss poor they really are for video. Great for stills though.. I suppose.. compared to a mirrorless at least..

 

 

Well in "real" life, on the Asian side of the world, the wealthy are already rocking 4K televisions at a consumer level.  The problem is that the western part of the world forgets where most of our practical electronics come from.  Japan & China are different at so many levels.  "Kiyanon" (Canon) 1DC can quickly publish 4K projects for private network broadcasts or select news channels.  & by July 2014 Japan will already start broadcasting 4K mainstream.  the same way HDTV was first introduced... you either had a build in HDTV converter or you had to buy the box separate - just around when Plasma displays were coming out and high priced.  Another reality is that no one really has a broadcast 4K TV to test results from a GH2 to a 1DC and 4K lenses.  Up-scaling algorithms is something to see in time.  heads with a  4K monitor should shed some light on a GH2 vs. 1DC and describe the resolution.  I'm leaning to bet the 1DC would look superior with 4K pixel spread

 

Well it's currently not July 2014 and I'm not talking about broadcasting a GH2 at 4k. I'm not going to buy a camera now, to do what I need it to do in a years time (and end up paying probably 95% of the cost of the camera in R+D). 

 

If the 1DC does proper 4k then my 550d does proper 1080p. (That's a joke by the way. Both cameras use definitions of 4k and 1080p developed by canon respectively, that do not permeate or reconcile with the rest of the world.)



#15
Leang

Posted 28 January 2013 - 01:56 PM

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Well it's currently not July 2014 and I'm not talking about broadcasting a GH2 at 4k. I'm not going to buy a camera now, to do what I need it to do in a years time (and end up paying probably 95% of the cost of the camera in R+D). 

 

If the 1DC does proper 4k then my 550d does proper 1080p. (That's a joke by the way. Both cameras use definitions of 4k and 1080p developed by canon respectively, that do not permeate or reconcile with the rest of the world.)

 

Yes it's not July 2014 for mainstream Japanese 4k broadcast.  You asked what's in ''real life.''  So you got a ''real life'' answer.  You have to acknowledge that those with a 4K practical camera currently in their hands and a 4K platform to publish and sell  (in the broadcast world or  ''real life'') is already in effect.  I think another problem is that there are two roads, a pro market for 4K cinema projection optimization, and the other for general home entertainment.  different protocols, different markets! 



#16
ScreensPro

Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:36 PM

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Has anyone downloaded the 4K from Philip's site?..... It is very impressive, in my opinion.

 

The comparison of 550D's 1080p and 1D-C's 4k seem completely untrue.

 

To my eyes, 1D-C's 4K is very much at a level of RED-One-M



#17
Alex Mand

Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:01 PM

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Has anyone downloaded the 4K from Philip's site?..... It is very impressive, in my opinion.

 

The comparison of 550D's 1080p and 1D-C's 4k seem completely untrue.

 

To my eyes, 1D-C's 4K is very much at a level of RED-One-M

 

Are you kidding, right?

 

Man, I have a Red MX and you can't compare Red to this camera... Really! First you want to compare redcode to this 8bit footage? Even with vimeo's compressed footage...

 

Ease of use, ok this camera wins, but the rest? far, very far...


Go shoot!

#18
Andrew Reid

Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:18 PM

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No 10-bit, so drab plastic skin unless we use a ton of post-production...

 

The Canon 550D *cough £250* with magic lantern has peaking. The RX100 has peaking. The 1DC... does not.

 

Hitting self with plank now.

 

The 1D C could have been much better, something which is rather glossed over in some of the more glossy reviews light on technical knowledge. A group of bedroom programmers added peaking for free, and Canon can't do it for $12,000. Even the NEX 3 at $150 on eBay has peaking!

 

Canon don't have the hardware to play with the big guns. No global shutter tech like Sony, no internal raw recording technology either. If a better codec wasn't possible with the 1D X image processors then why don't they add a 10bit 4-4-4 HD-SDI port and use an external recording solution?

 

A lot of people will be having issues with shadows and grading skin tones on this camera and there's no fix.



#19
Will Turner

Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:30 PM

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Has anyone downloaded the 4K from Philip's site?..... It is very impressive, in my opinion.

 

The comparison of 550D's 1080p and 1D-C's 4k seem completely untrue.

 

To my eyes, 1D-C's 4K is very much at a level of RED-One-M

 

The comparison is completely true. I find the 4k coming out of the 1DC to be just as underwhelming as the 1080p out of the 550d, if not more so. It's over 10 grand and still only a compressed 8 bit stream for gods sake! 

 

 

Did they even replace the 1DX optical viewfinder for an electric one that you can actually use to shoot video with..?



#20
zaz

Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:56 PM

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i think its entirely possible that a firmware update could bring 10bit hdmi out.. the fact that the world is still waiting for features as simple as peaking or punch-in while recording is completely beyond me.  i mean, really, what the fuck!? how is this possible???? somehow canon is 5 years down the line, and they are still operating as though they just now discovered how to make a dslr shoot video.. :(






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