User Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I've been Googling around for an answer on this but haven't found anything concrete. The book in question is copyright protected in the U.S. I want to use 41 words. Does anyone have any relevant info? Experience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy lee Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 you will need to get permission from the publisher of the book or you will face legal action for copyright violations - contact them asn ask - get it all in writting Xavier Plagaro Mussard, User, kaylee and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Hill Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Depends on how you're using it. Is it for a doc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy Jones Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Depends on the kind of book you are borrowing from, the amount you are borrowing, the kind of production you are creating with it, what you are doing to the portion you are borrowing, and if your use is a potential loss for the copyright owners. Lots of info needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 Thanks folks. The quote would be used to open a doc film. The doc won't be a blockbuster. The book is not a Harry Potter bestseller. If anything, the quote your more than likely draw people from the film to the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier Plagaro Mussard Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Put it this way, if they agree your choice was right. If they don't agree find another way to start your doc, those words werent's meant to be there... sanveer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanveer Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Most publishers are the greedy ones. Authors don't usually have issues. call the author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy Jones Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Since its a doc, just have the vo or onscreen text site the source. If you were writing a book, you could include the quote no problem as long as you site in text and in sources. Easy peezy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 1 minute ago, Jonesy Jones said: Since its a doc, just have the vo or onscreen text site the source. If you were writing a book, you could include the quote no problem as long as you site in text and in sources. Easy peezy. Oh really. Can you cite a confirmed source for this info? 17 hours ago, andy lee said: you will need to get permission from the publisher of the book or you will face legal action for copyright violations - contact them asn ask - get it all in writting Agreed. I've mailed the copyright owner. Will report back when I have an answer. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy Jones Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 30 minutes ago, User said: Oh really. Can you cite a confirmed source for this info? Did you ever write a research paper in school? I had to several times and was taught that the proper way to quote legally was to cite sources. So there are probably hundreds of books discussing this. I think you're confusing quoting/citing and using intellectually property like an image, clip, sound bite or music. Movies quote other movies all the time. They even borrow exact sets, camera moves, lines, etc. But borrowing their actual content is a whole other matter. I really believe you're over thinking this. Citing the source in the film and in the credits is probably more than covering your bases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 7 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said: Did you ever write a research paper in school? I had to several times and was taught that the proper way to quote legally was to cite sources. So there are probably hundreds of books discussing this. I think you're confusing quoting/citing and using intellectually property like an image, clip, sound bite or music. Movies quote other movies all the time. They even borrow exact sets, camera moves, lines, etc. But borrowing their actual content is a whole other matter. I really believe you're over thinking this. Citing the source in the film and in the credits is probably more than covering your bases. I sometime wonder about folks 'overthinking' what other folks are thinking about. Entertainment law is something quite different that writing a research paper in school and it would be a bit bizarre to be standing in a court of law and trying to explain that a guy in a camera forum said it was ok. I have several broadcast licences on this project and I require facts. If you can point to those then be my guest. If not... well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier Plagaro Mussard Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 1 hour ago, User said: it would be a bit bizarre to be standing in a court of law and trying to explain that a guy in a camera forum said it was ok. That's a situation you can live without... ;-DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunk Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I think Jonesy is right. There is a huge difference between citing and using someone text as if it was your own. https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/747/02/ Maybe this is of some help. 2 hours ago, User said: Oh really. Can you cite a confirmed source for this info? m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 Sorry if it was not clear but I have no intention of using an author's words as my own. That would be suicide. Moreover, since noone here seems to have any direct experience, and none of us are Entertainment Lawyers, let's drop this until I hear from the publisher, after which I'll post again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Fandango Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 8 hours ago, User said: Sorry if it was not clear but I have no intention of using an author's words as my own. That would be suicide. Moreover, since noone here seems to have any direct experience, and none of us are Entertainment Lawyers, let's drop this until I hear from the publisher, after which I'll post again. The publisher will say no, it's literally their job to try to get you to pay money, whether you legally have to or not. User 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy Jones Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 1 hour ago, User said: I sometime wonder about folks 'overthinking' what other folks are thinking about. Entertainment law is something quite different that writing a research paper in school and it would be a bit bizarre to be standing in a court of law and trying to explain that a guy in a camera forum said it was ok. I have several broadcast licences on this project and I require facts. If you can point to those then be my guest. If not... well... Yes, if it's that big a deal you should be talking to a lawyer, not getting info from a forum. We are just trying to help you, and we are filmmakers like you. However, what I'm trying to say though is that I don't think this really falls under entertainment law in the way using an image, clip, music, etc would. You are not photographing a page from their book, you are quoting... Big difference. When you quote, you cite sources, just like a research paper. Just like professional journalists. Just like big name authors. They don't get permission. They cite. Additionally, there is far more protection for filmmakers than most of us think. For instance, I always thought you couldn't see logos in films, like a Coke can. But it turns out you totally can. If you are using it for its intended design, no problem. Now If you use that can for a bong, then you'll attract a lawsuit. The reason you don't see it in shows and movies as much is because it's free advertisement, and most productions want money for that. Have you seen Everything Is A Remix? Very interesting. Also, the book Pocket Lawyer for Filmmakers may be something you want. But for something this involved, you'll want a lawyer. I think the Publisher will play hardball. That's their job. Will be interesting to hear though. But I'm just guessing. So you'll need a lawyer. Or take a risk. You could just do it. Most cease and desist suits just require filmmakers to just take down content. If that happened, you could involve the lawyer then. Personally, I think you're clear. But I'm just a guy in a camera forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Fandango Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 The information you need to give to get a sensible answer is the following: What is the thing you want to quote - is it a non-descript paragraph from a lengthy tome or is it the first verse from a short poem - the amount of the work you want to use and it's promenance is very important. Even a single line from a long book can land you in trouble, especially if that line were something like: "The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed" - one of the most iconic lines in Stephen King's "The Gunslinger" series would be absolutely off limits, whereas "The man in black travels with your soul in his pocket" from the same book would almost certainly be fine. As for the amount, the publisher almost certainly gives it's own authors guidance on the amount of work they can use in their books, they would be fighting a losing battle if you get a hold of that information and stick to it yourself. Is the thing you want to quote an unadorned fact - if yes, then go ahead, it's fine - "Humans live on the Planet Earth" for example, however "Humanity existed on the surface of the planet earth like termintes in their mound" is adorned with descriptive language and this is copyrightable - I made that up fyi, and yes, you have my permission to use it however you wish The purpose and character of use, is this a for profit venture, is it educational or entertainment - if it's both then for this purpose, it counts as entertainment unless it's aimed at children, when entertainment is beneficial to the education. The other thing to consider is how your work relates to the work you want to quote - if your work makes any part of that obselete, i.e. something of value given in that work is replaced in yours, you would not be able to do this - e.g. if I were to make a documentary on whales and I quoted a book by Richard Attenborough about sea life, if even a paragraph of that book contained information about whales, then my work would make that paragraph obselete, and I would be in trouble. If you are very confident that you are on the "fair use" side of all these terms, and very far on the fair use side, then you should be fine - at least in the US User 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 Thanks to everyone for weighing in on this. I'll try to keep this simple, I feel like most of this will be redundant. I'm shooting/ directing a doc film in Asia about a city. This film will be for broadcast and possibly other forms of distribution, so that means that I have, and may continue to be paid from this work. The film itself is a hybrid art documentary and not meant for scholastic education purposes although it could easily be born from the Film Study Centre at Harvard. Hat tip to Robert Gardner. Now, the "QUOTE" I want to use is from a 600 page book about the city published in 2004. Needless to say I would credit to the author of the book, why would I not? The quote would be in the form of text that opens the film. I've never come across any info that the 41 word section is extra extraordinarily important to the book. But it does bare a nice resemblance to certain aspects of the film I'm making. Simple enough. The actual quote is a kind of 'poetic description of the city.' What I am starting to realize here in asking this is that everyone has their 'opinion' but at the end of the day, the publisher owns the copyright and they will decide what they want for me to use it. As Grim has pointed out, I fully expect the published to try to get as much as they can for the quote. The challenge is to know if the publisher can actually charge for this and weather or not the can sue me if I do use it without their permission. And to what degree the term 'fair use' is applicable in my situation, because that is not always, easily and exactly ascertainable. I know the writer personally but he seems a uncomfortable individual so I'd rather just deal with the actual copyright owner. Alas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 It depends on the way it is being used? And to what effect? I assume it's a popular quote, otherwise what would be the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 Um. Maybe we better just stick to talk about cameras in this forum. So I'll rephrase the original question. What are your opinions if a have a quote from a book printed on a sticker, and then I stick that sticker on my camera. The sicker would be black in color and so would the actual letters. Can I get in trouble with the copyright owner of the book? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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