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Bought the Canon 1DC

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#41
ScreensPro

Posted 24 January 2013 - 11:10 AM

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Much like aliasing/moire on a 5DII or BMCC..... You just need to test the situations that create banding and try to avoid them or use a different setting to minimize it.

 

For 99% of your shots though, you should be fine shooting C-Log. It has a great look and is surprisingly gradable for 8bit (if it works like a C300).



#42
jgharding

Posted 24 January 2013 - 11:25 AM

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I've found that even when you have some banding in the source, one you denoise and add film grain in a 32-bit you're usually eliminating it.

 

If you keep sky tones closer together when recording, they won't be so banded in the source, then pull them back apart in a 32-bit space and it's making the new values - a 32-bit space does not look at 8-bit source and snap adjustments to 8-bit values - it's making new ones. In AE you are working with a floating point in RGB, it's agood fix.

 

But enough maths! Those who haven't, try it out.

 

Even those who have purchased this camera though, can surely agree that 8-bit for so much money is just taking the piss. There's absolutely no technical reason to limit it so much. To be honest, I can't even see the marketing reason...


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#43
ScreensPro

Posted 24 January 2013 - 11:52 AM

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Are there any S35 or larger 10bit cameras for under $10k?

 

I do think we should be at the point where we see 10bit come down to cheaper cams.... But I would not expect Canon to be the 1st!

 

Maybe Panasonic will launch something at NAB



#44
jgharding

Posted 24 January 2013 - 11:59 AM

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It's true of course, there aren't, but I reckon we have to be in the last days of 8-bit in professional cams, surely? :S


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#45
ScreensPro

Posted 24 January 2013 - 04:48 PM

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I hope so....

 

S35, 12+ stops and 10bit/4:2:2 internal and I will be very happy. I'm not putting my hand in my pocket until those 3 specs are met or bettered, under $10k.

 

I have a gut feeling that Panasonic will come out punching at NAB.... They are never scared to bring pro features to a prosumer price bracket.



#46
Andrew Reid

Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:19 PM

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Seems you're describing the KineRaw cameras? They're under $10k.



#47
ScreensPro

Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:00 PM

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Unless something changed in the last month, you can't order one unless you are in China and there is zero worldwide customer support.

 

It's not a camera that is on the market, as far as i'm concerned. Also "only" 11.5 stop, more than workable, but i've always thought that 12+ is the magic number.

 

Looks interesting though, especially the mini.

 

BMCC and the speed booster might be an interesting combo too



#48
jgharding

Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:10 PM

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That's the biggest frustration: there's some good stuff "available", but none of it seems to be Available, if you catch my drift. 

 

It won't be too long before that changes, I'm sure...


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#49
Andrew Reid

Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:20 PM

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Yes, haha you are right. The availability of the new stuff is incredibly poor! I feel we're at the beginning of a mountain of progress though, and not at the $15,000 mark but at $3000-6k



#50
Andrew Reid

Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:21 PM

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BTW the Sony F3 might dip below $8k on eBay before long. That does 10bit to external recorder if it has the required firmware upgrade.



#51
Andrew Reid

Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:25 PM

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Seems the F3 has halved in price since it came out.

 

£5200 on eBay. That is only a grand more than a new FS100!!

 

http://rover.ebay.co...9&mtid=824&kw=l



#52
ScreensPro

Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:51 PM

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Yea, the F3 is a beauty and very, very tempting. Coupled with a hyperdeck, it is a hell of alot of bang for $. Certainly worthy of a feature.

 

I just really wanted to give up on external recorders and big rigs though. I was an early user of the HVX200/s35 combo and the huge tripod to go with it.... I hoped those days were over.... lugging that setup around Iceland in winter was not fun!

 

If i was in a studio environment though, the F3 would be at the top of the list.



#53
ScreensPro

Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:07 PM

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mmmm, the guy is VAT registered too, I could pick that up for about £4000, very interesting!



#54
Andrew Reid

Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:31 PM

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It's a shame the form factor is so bulky. There's also a real lack of comparisons between 10bit F3 footage, BMCC 12bit raw and FS100 8bit AVCHD. Would be interesting to compare the F3.



#55
ScreensPro

Posted 24 January 2013 - 09:03 PM

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It is a bit bulky, but considering the way the internet exploded when the Red One went to $4k, this F3 price should be hailed. It is easily small enough for a 1 man rig.

 

10bit, 4:4:4, S-Log is pretty amazing, and the F3 (S-Log) gets 13-14 stops and can be graded very heavily... Other than the ISO and white balance, it is very much like raw.



#56
chauffeurdevan

Posted 25 January 2013 - 12:17 AM

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10bit, 4:4:4, S-Log is pretty amazing, and the F3 (S-Log) gets 13-14 stops and can be graded very heavily... Other than the ISO and white balance, it is very much like raw.

 

Just to note that to be able to use the F3 as 10bit 4:4:4 or 10bit 4:2:2 in 60p, you need an recorder that have dual link hd-sdi or 3g-sdi....



#57
Ian Anderson

Posted 25 January 2013 - 09:36 AM

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mmmm, the guy is VAT registered too, I could pick that up for about £4000, very interesting!

 

So funny that this should come up, I just bought my FS700 from the very same seller! Would definitely recommend him if you're thinking of pursuing it.



#58
FilmMan

Posted 25 January 2013 - 02:56 PM

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Updates coming for the 1DC?  From Canon rumors.  I'd wish they open up the camera to 10 bit. 

http://www.canonrumors.com/

The EOS-1D C broken down a bit more.
A reader sent in some information about the EOS-1D C.

1) A 25P firmware is coming next week.

2) Canon is aware that high iso, high motion doesn’t mix well with 4K aggressively compressed to MJPEG. So my little experience of doing 4K framegrab is mixed. Quality is amazing in natural daylight portrait, but is less interesting in action high iso scene. They are aware of that and the “limit is the card writting speed” at 100Mb/s.

Interestingly the buffer looks to be well over 380 Mb/s and almost 3Gb large. So basically, the camera could run small sequence with lower compression in 4K or even in 8K for 3 to 6 second on the buffer, and then move that to the card when done a little bit ala phantom.

They say they will “investigate in this direction”.

3) The twin Digic V in the 1Dc are slightly over clocked compared to the one in the 1Dx therefore this is why there is a need for better cooling.

4) The C500 with its slightly lower pixel density and higher pixel size, is for now the king of the hill when it comes to high iso and low light when filming in 4K.



#59
jgharding

Posted 25 January 2013 - 05:49 PM

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It's such a colossal waste. It's debayering 14-bit images off the sensor, then encoding to 8-bit JPEG and wrapping up in MJPEG.

 

So why not encode to 10-bit? Silly Canon...

 

Of course, these pull 16-bit off the sensor at medium-format size. Sexy... http://www.bhphotovi...at_Digital.html

 

As an aside, here's what 80 megapixels looks like, from the PhaseOne IQ180 medium format. Looking at stills always makes most video look like a bucket of dicks: http://upload.wikime...uelineMegaw.jpg


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#60
ScreensPro

Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:54 PM

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I'm no technical expert... but my guess is that most DSLRs have two internal pathways.

 

raw, 14 bit... off the sensor, buffered, then onto the card.

 

jpg, 8bit... off the sensor, buffered, processed, then onto the card.

 

The pathway is all 8bit once it is in the processing board. It would cost more to make the internal processing 10bit... this is not just some firmware fix or bottleneck at the writing to card part. It needs to be 10bit the moment it is processed off the sensor.

 

Would still shooters pay extra for 10bit video?.... No, they would be up in arms.

 

Obviously, you could argue that the 1D-C is aimed at videographers and should have had new boards that have a 10 bit path.... and I would agree.... But I think they rushed it to market and used the 8 bit circuitry that is already in place.






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