wolf33d Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Hi, I got an RX100IV and an A7RII. I would like to match same settings on both cameras so it is easier when gradding.I have been trying to find the best settings. Philipp Bloom seems to use Cine 2 and 4 with Pro color mode. Andrew SLOG2, and I have seen everything in between.I did some test and I like SLOG from the A7RII but it is mini 1600ISO on the RX100 so too much. Plus I do not have ND filters on my A7R. I tried a setting that a guy recommend to match SLOG: Cine 4, Cine color mode and black level +15. It works okay. My goal is to be able to use some luts so starting from a flat profile.What do you guys use, and who knows which mode on A7 is closest to the CINE D on GH4 ?Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf33d Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 Funny, threads like will starwars will be rubbish or not millions of answer. When a question like this is asked, no answer. Anyway I spent a full day testing today and here are my conclusions, if this helps other readers: I use Color Final for grading (as a lut importer for Impulz and for basic corrections) in FCPX as well as Filmconvert. For each test I did the best grade I could with Impulz lut and curves, and the best grade I could with Filmconvert. I also tried both at the same time and this is the best sometimes.I did that for multiple shots:StandardAutumn Leaves (use by brandon lee in his nice video) Different Cine settingsSlog 2So Autumn leaves gives the best look out of the box, but is the worst when graded.Cine 2 gamma with Cine color gives EXACTLY the same image as SLOG2 after luts and curves are applied, with less opacity for Cine 2 tunings of course (because it is less flat out of the camera. I am very pleased with the result.The conclusion is:Since Philipp Bloom uses Cine 2 with Cine Color with amazing results, since I confirmed myself I get the absolute same image color as SLOG2 after the tuning and since Cine2 is much easier to work with (no need to push exposure one stop, no need to have 800 iso minimum) my best settings are Cine 2 with Cinema color. On top, Filmconvert has a preset for Cine2 so it works perfectly. If I want to use an impulz slog2 lut it is as easy, I just lower the opacity compared to SLOG2 lut and voila. agolex 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 After some testing that I had done in the past, I ended up using something very similar. I prefer Cine2 for lowlight and Cine4 for daytime. Here is an old thread for A7rII profiles: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf33d Posted December 18, 2015 Author Share Posted December 18, 2015 Thanks for your input. Why do you prefer Cine4 for daytime? My comparison between Cine2 and 4 shows me that they are very similar except Cine2 being more flat so giving a bit more freedom in the grading.Also, Cine 2 being more flat it seems to me that it would be more prone to noise in the shadows compared to cine 4.So I am interested in having your opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Thanks for your input. Why do you prefer Cine4 for daytime? My comparison between Cine2 and 4 shows me that they are very similar except Cine2 being more flat so giving a bit more freedom in the grading.Also, Cine 2 being more flat it seems to me that it would be more prone to noise in the shadows compared to cine 4.So I am interested in having your opinion.I definitely did not do extensive testing. What I found is that Cine 4 gave me better highlights and Cine 2 better shadows. My impression is that they have pretty similar dynamic range just shifted in different directions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jase Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Valuable input, appreciated guys!wolf33d, what are your thoughts about lowlight capabilities and DoF - is it any good with this small sensor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmcindie Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Cine2 is actually not more flat.The only difference between Cine2 and Cine4 are the levels. Cine2 records 16-235, Cine4 records 0-255. Cine4 basically has a bit more gradations available, the problem with Cine4 is that editing software (like Premiere) will clip the highlights very easily. In Premiere you have to bring the superwhites back into 235 values for them to be visible, otherwise it will clip the highlights away. For example, using the procamp effect with 83 brightness will do that. Levels should also work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chris Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Not a fan of Slog, but I've used Samuel H's Flaat on the A7s with good results. He says it works well on the RX100IV too. Going to do some comparisons with the A7s/A7rII over the holidays.http://similaar.com/foto/flaat-a7s/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf33d Posted December 18, 2015 Author Share Posted December 18, 2015 Well if I have to bring highlight back to 235 in Premiere then why not use Cine2 directly? Jase: well DoF on the rx100 is good only at very small distance and max aperture. Otherwise it is shit. Lowlight is good for a small sensor. I would say if you need photo video buy a7Rii, if you need slow mo add an rx100. If you do video only then the A7S does the slowmo without need for the rx100 ans with better DoF (2.2 crop from FF).The last Canon 1DX II rumor spec says 4k60fps and FHD120fps, to rule them all.I would wait january as Sony will come with a99ii and canon with 1DX so we will see their strategy.Overall I like the A7RII but I don't love it. I just don't have a good feeling with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 On 12/17/2015 at 11:41 AM, wolf33d said: Well if I have to bring highlight back to 235 in Premiere then why not use Cine2 directly? Even if you don't highlights still look better with Cine4. Slog is like combining the highlights of Cine4 with the shadows of Cine2 (a bit more actually). The problem is that it looks Slog is using the 16-235 range (Correction: slog is using 0-255 and premiere correctly recognizes that whereas it does not for Cine4/Cine1). I might have to do a bit more testing on this because I don't have a clue why Sony would do that. It might explain the excessive banding. Anyways Cine2/Cine4 are great and for most shoots much better than Slog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf33d Posted December 18, 2015 Author Share Posted December 18, 2015 Just did a non scientific test. As we can see Cine 2 as a clear advantage over Cine4 in term of DR (look at the writing near the light way more visible even though the shadows on the wall are less black).Actually DR is similar with SLOG2 (image not attached but if u raise black levels of Cine2 you get similar shadows while having the writings well appearing) I don't see any better highlights for Cine4, I actually prefer the Cine2 ones.Well this seems to match my "outdoor real" test of yesterday so Cine2 it is for meCine2:Cine4:SLOG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I don't know how you pulled that off Wolf. Did you use the same profile and expose and only changed from Cine2/Cine4/Slog? Cause when I did this test (same profile, same exposure) here is what I got:Cine2:Cine4:Slog:And the Cine4 uncorrected (0-255 range clipped):You can see that the midtones are the same for Cine2 and Cine4. You can see it also in the YC waveform on the right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf33d Posted December 18, 2015 Author Share Posted December 18, 2015 Yep I just changed Cine2/4/slogWas it an A7rII as well ?Interesting because our shadows look similar (better on cine2) but we get opposite highlight!Edit: Well my bad. I reset the settings because the Cine 2 was on wide black gamma +7I have similar result to you but then the Cine2 is just overexposed, so it is the same DR.Interestingly, wide black gammut +7 gives even better highlight than cine4 as seen in my first test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Yep I just changed Cine2/4/slogWas it an A7rII as well ?Interesting because our shadows look similar (better on cine2) but we get opposite highlight!Yep with the A7rII. The only thing that I can think of is a combination of the knee and possibly your program clipping the Cine4 file. So I am using the parameters in the thread that I posted earlier. I have changed the knee to manual mode. That gave me better highlight rolloff. Give it a try. Also make sure you are not clipping the superwhites. But that shouldn't matter that much if you optimize the knee as my example shows. I have no other explanation of this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf33d Posted December 18, 2015 Author Share Posted December 18, 2015 Check my last message I edited it.Interestingly also, Cine4 is limited to ISO200 and Cine2 can go as low as ISO100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jase Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 On top, Filmconvert has a preset for Cine2 so it works perfectly.Are you talking about the RX100 Profile? Because i just got a setting for cine1 & pro...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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