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Prototype Metabones Speed Booster equipped NEX 7 *VS* full frame (5D Mark III)


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#21 richg101

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 11:09 AM

thanks for the test Andrew.  A true comparison between real full frame and aps-c was what we all needed.  I am amazed at how much the images look alike.  If anything I thought the branches on the trees in the first shot were sharper on the nex7!  and nex7 was iso1600 vs iso 3200 for 5d!  WOW!  

 

Assuming the shot of the olympus camera was at f2.8 on the 5d and f2.0 on the nex7, if you set the lens to f4 on the nex 7 it will be effectively as bright as the 5d set to f2.8.

 

so at the same brightness, with the cameras set at the same iso, shutter, but with the nex's lens set to f4 and the 5d's lens set to f2.8(assuming the lens had a manual aperture ring), the depth of field will be less shallow on the nex7?  


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#22 Zigmars Zilgalvis

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:38 PM

This is a very useful tool and will be widely used. Still - MkIII video is not a benchmark of anything as it is soft as always. Now medium format glass adaper of this kind on FF would be something i am interested in:)

 

Don't worry about Canon etc business - you still have to buy lenses to use them and FF cameras are not gona go out of style just because of this adapter. Good crop cameras are not that cheap and try shoot a wedding with NEX7 and this adapter... you be in line for 5D next day:) It has many uses but not gona change the world.



#23 Roberto Buril

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:39 PM

This is not the dead of full frame. Metabones aren´t cheap. The EF to Nex adapter cost about 500usd. How much this one would cost? 700?
1000 USD camera + 700 adapter cost almost a full frame one...  (If you buy a 5d mkii is the same price...)
 
But the adapter is a huge step if you have some good full frame lens and want a new small body (to travel, etc...)


#24 EOSHD

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:00 PM

I read somewhere else (maybe the other speed booster thread?) someone explaining about infinity focus issues with this type of adapter. 

 

My prototype just needs to be adjusted. There's a built in adjustment for infinity focus which I will do here http://www.metabones...ed-booster-only

 

On the production models you don't need to do this unless you have a very old dodgy lens that you need infinity on. In other words, the adapter is calibrated at the factory for correct infinity focus unless the lens is faulty then you can adjust it.



#25 EOSHD

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:02 PM

This changes everything. People will be shooting awesome films, getting into Sundance, and getting 3 picture deals left and right.

 

Yeah and what do you say to those you WILL be shooting awesome films with this adapter and getting into Sundance? I think they should make you watch the films with the edges cut off and a 1.5x crop version just for Mr Sarcastic.


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#26 EOSHD

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:07 PM

thanks for the test Andrew.  A true comparison between real full frame and aps-c was what we all needed.  I am amazed at how much the images look alike.  If anything I thought the branches on the trees in the first shot were sharper on the nex7!  and nex7 was iso1600 vs iso 3200 for 5d!  WOW!  

 

Assuming the shot of the olympus camera was at f2.8 on the 5d and f2.0 on the nex7, if you set the lens to f4 on the nex 7 it will be effectively as bright as the 5d set to f2.8.

 

so at the same brightness, with the cameras set at the same iso, shutter, but with the nex's lens set to f4 and the 5d's lens set to f2.8(assuming the lens had a manual aperture ring), the depth of field will be less shallow on the nex7?  

 

Yes, less shallow if the aperture is stopped down on the NEX 7. If the aperture is physically at the same setting then both will have the same depth of field characteristics. Remember that aperture with the Speed Booster applied is a virtual number to describe the increase in brightness created by the adapter. The round hole in the lens stays physically the same size.

 

The added bonus is that you can stop down on the NEX 7 if you need extra sharpness and not lose any low light performance.

 

The purple fringing comes from the Sigma lens wide open not the adapter. Next comparison will use my better glass. I just wanted to show what it looked like at 24mm wide angle and that was the only fast wide I had to hand at the time.



#27 Robbie_C

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:40 PM

Hi Andrew

Thanks for the tests...any chance you could see if this has made any difference to moiré false colour?

 

I understand it's a pre-production model.



#28 richg101

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:54 PM

Yes, less shallow if the aperture is stopped down on the NEX 7. If the aperture is physically at the same setting then both will have the same depth of field characteristics. Remember that aperture with the Speed Booster applied is a virtual number to describe the increase in brightness created by the adapter. The round hole in the lens stays physically the same size.

 

The added bonus is that you can stop down on the NEX 7 if you need extra sharpness and not lose any low light performance.

 

The purple fringing comes from the Sigma lens wide open not the adapter. Next comparison will use my better glass. I just wanted to show what it looked like at 24mm wide angle and that was the only fast wide I had to hand at the time.

 

Nice.  I had a feeling this would also help with focus pulling in low light because the lens wouldnt need to be opened up to as large aperture.  however, due to the wider angle of view (because it is now uncropped), i'll need to move closer to the subject than before (to get the same framing) and thus, the depth of focus remains the same.  changing to a longer lens with the same aperture will have the same effect on the depth of focus.  

 

currently i use a 35, 50, 85 and 135mm taking lens on my anamorphic setup.  when I have this speed booster I'll have to lose the 35mm due to vignette, but since the 50mm will provide the same field of view as i get now with the 35mm i'll be ok.  A stop of extra light on each lens is well worth the £380 for this new metabones:)



#29 Olphus

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 02:24 PM

How about a Metabones Speed Booster that squeezes the image to an anamorphic ratio too - no more anamorphic lenses!??

But then again I don't know if that's possible.



#30 Jacek

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:05 PM

What about medium format camera (C/Y, HS..) to NEX/m43 adapter [if it will be created]?

- angle of view and aperture x4?

:)


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#31 Zigmars Zilgalvis

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:40 PM

 

This is not the dead of full frame. Metabones aren´t cheap. The EF to Nex adapter cost about 500usd. How much this one would cost? 700?
1000 USD camera + 700 adapter cost almost a full frame one...  (If you buy a 5d mkii is the same price...)
 
But the adapter is a huge step if you have some good full frame lens and want a new small body (to travel, etc...)

 

 

That is what i was trying to say. It makes sense if you already have all the other stuff, otherwise not so much. I do hope it has enough impact on market in some way, the idea is pretty awesome.



#32 jcs

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 05:27 PM

It's not just about full frame support (though I admit that's what got my attention as a 5D2/5D3 owner with Canon lenses). They named it "Speed Booster" and not "Full Framester": the light gathering and focusing nature of the device is very cool. My 50 F1.4 becomes an F1.0, the 24-105 F4L becomes an F2.8, 70-200 F2.8 II becomes an F2.0 etc. The last feature which most people find hard to believe is the increase in image quality (improved MTF- modulation transfer function). This is measurable (they show graphs), and example images with reduced CA, increased sharpness and contrast: http://www.metabones...White Paper.pdf

 

Lots more example photos and videos from real-world use here: http://philipbloom.n...3/speedbooster/

 

A minor technicality- the device is actually a 1.09 crop (close enough :)).


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#33 Julian

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 06:07 PM

That is what i was trying to say. It makes sense if you already have all the other stuff, otherwise not so much. I do hope it has enough impact on market in some way, the idea is pretty awesome.

 

Don't forget the fact that every lens you buy suddenly has a double purpose (with and without speedbooster). And you don't have to buy f/1.4 lenses anymore, you can pay less than half for a f/2 and have the same light gathering capabilities. Even a dirt cheap f/2.8 prime makes a nice f/2.0.

 

For example: I'm interested in buying a reasonably fast (at least f/2) standard lens (50mm equivalent) and a wide angle (35mm equivalent) for my GH2.

 

I could buy a Canon FD / Nikkor 24mm f/2 to get the 50mm equivalent, that would cost €300 to €400 on eBay.

To get a 35mm equivalent, I'd need a 17mm. I could buy some crappy, rare, huge 17mm f/3.5, but that's not fast. The only choice is a Voigtlander 17.5mm f/0.95, for €1200!

 

With the Speed Booster, I could buy a Nikkor 35mm f/2.8 for €100 to get 50mm f/2 and a Nikkor 24mm f/2.8 for €200 to get a 35mm f/2.

 

For the price of the Voigtlander 17.5mm, you could buy the Samyang 24mm f/1.4 and the Speed Booster, and get pretty much the same effect: 35mm f/1.0. Plus the added bonus of all your lenses suddenly behaving the same as their much more expensive counterparts.

 

It is not cheap. But if you are in the market for a a few fast standard/wide lenses like me, then the Speed Booster instantly pays itself back. Plus you get options that aren't even possible without the adapter.

 

To me this actually is the most exciting product I've seen in years. Yes, we have seen a lot of technical developments on the camera side. Better sensors, cheaper camera's... Nice, but glass always stays the same. Nothing changes physics. Good glass is expensive. In a way it's nice that this doesn't change, lenses retain their value.

 

But now Metabones manages to come up with something that turns this very fixed part of photography/filmmaking upside down. If I were Sony (CaNikon are too slow anyway..) I'd instantly buy out Metabones and release this technology inside a mirrorless camera (with A-mount, just fit the element in place of the SLT-construction and use Phase Detection pixels) That would be the break trough cheap 'fullframe' camera and stir the market :)


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#34 Zigmars Zilgalvis

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:34 PM

Don't forget the fact that every lens you buy suddenly has a double purpose (with and without speedbooster). And you don't have to buy f/1.4 lenses anymore, you can pay less than half for a f/2 and have the same light gathering capabilities. Even a dirt cheap f/2.8 prime makes a nice f/2.0.

 

For example: I'm interested in buying a reasonably fast (at least f/2) standard lens (50mm equivalent) and a wide angle (35mm equivalent) for my GH2.

 

I could buy a Canon FD / Nikkor 24mm f/2 to get the 50mm equivalent, that would cost €300 to €400 on eBay.

To get a 35mm equivalent, I'd need a 17mm. I could buy some crappy, rare, huge 17mm f/3.5, but that's not fast. The only choice is a Voigtlander 17.5mm f/0.95, for €1200!

 

With the Speed Booster, I could buy a Nikkor 35mm f/2.8 for €100 to get 50mm f/2 and a Nikkor 24mm f/2.8 for €200 to get a 35mm f/2.

 

For the price of the Voigtlander 17.5mm, you could buy the Samyang 24mm f/1.4 and the Speed Booster, and get pretty much the same effect: 35mm f/1.0. Plus the added bonus of all your lenses suddenly behaving the same as their much more expensive counterparts.

 

It is not cheap. But if you are in the market for a a few fast standard/wide lenses like me, then the Speed Booster instantly pays itself back. Plus you get options that aren't even possible without the adapter.

 

To me this actually is the most exciting product I've seen in years. Yes, we have seen a lot of technical developments on the camera side. Better sensors, cheaper camera's... Nice, but glass always stays the same. Nothing changes physics. Good glass is expensive. In a way it's nice that this doesn't change, lenses retain their value.

 

But now Metabones manages to come up with something that turns this very fixed part of photography/filmmaking upside down. If I were Sony (CaNikon are too slow anyway..) I'd instantly buy out Metabones and release this technology inside a mirrorless camera (with A-mount, just fit the element in place of the SLT-construction and use Phase Detection pixels) That would be the break trough cheap 'fullframe' camera and stir the market :)

 

I guess it can start some sort of change in market, we will see right? Just remember one thing - when pen was invented, it didn't help to produce many more great poems:)


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#35 earthrise

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:15 PM

Probably just my eyes but is there a hint of distortion round the edge of the frame in these examples? Stretched into the corners a bit?

#36 Sean Cunningham

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:20 PM

 

This is not the dead of full frame. Metabones aren´t cheap. The EF to Nex adapter cost about 500usd. How much this one would cost? 700?
1000 USD camera + 700 adapter cost almost a full frame one...  (If you buy a 5d mkii is the same price...)
 
But the adapter is a huge step if you have some good full frame lens and want a new small body (to travel, etc...)

 

 

What it means is the death of sacrificing video performance just to get the look of full frame.  None of the full frame options currently available, or announced, offer anywhere near the best motion picture performance.  

 

$1000 USD camera (why, when you could buy a GH2, but whatever) + $700 adapter cost = video performance that totally curb-stomps a $1700 full frame camera, or a $2975 full frame camera, or a $6728.99 full frame camera, or a $12,728.99 full frame camera.

 

That's what this means.


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#37 NOC40

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:20 PM

I can't seem to download the full res files, but I've had a little play with the first "side-by-side". Have a look at http://www.fabulousp...m/Metabones.psd and switch the NEX5N layer on and off. All I've done is moved the top photo over the bottom one (resized at constant aspect ratio and rotated). The NEX layer has some horribly blown highlights, esp in the red channel. And where has all that distortion come from? Even at 660px wide the 5D image looks much sharper. What's going on?



#38 Zigmars Zilgalvis

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:41 PM

What it means is the death of sacrificing video performance just to get the look of full frame.  None of the full frame options currently available, or announced, offer anywhere near the best motion picture performance.  

 

$1000 USD camera (why, when you could buy a GH2, but whatever) + $700 adapter cost = video performance that totally curb-stomps a $1700 full frame camera, or a $2975 full frame camera, or a $6728.99 full frame camera, or a $12,728.99 full frame camera.

 

That's what this means.

 

Take it easy tiger, it's just an adapter.



#39 Julian

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:49 PM

I guess it can start some sort of change in market, we will see right? Just remember one thing - when pen was invented, it didn't help to produce many more great poems:)

 

Of course. But well, basically everybody on EOSHD just comes here to rave of bitch about the newest hardware. Check the amount of actual posts in the screening room... ;-) I like technology. It won't make me a better film maker, still I like it and it makes me enthusiastic.

 

Anyway, I'll be posting something in the Screening Room soon, made without a Speed Booster...



#40 richg101

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:55 PM

Of course. But well, basically everybody on EOSHD just comes here to rave of bitch about the newest hardware. Check the amount of actual posts in the screening room... ;-) I like technology. It won't make me a better film maker, still I like it and it makes me enthusiastic.

 

Anyway, I'll be posting something in the Screening Room soon, made without a Speed Booster...

 

 

Not possible.  Without being recorded through a speed booster, all editing software will crash during export from here on in.  


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