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Blackmagic Cinema Camera gets a rival - Dan Chung shows us the KINERAW MINI

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#1
Andrew Reid

Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:01 PM

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KineRAW Mini

In a sea of insipid and faceless cameras for the corporate workplace, here is something different. Like the Blackmagic Cinema Camera it is designed for filmmakers who want image quality as close to Super 35mm film as possible but can't afford $15,000+

This is rumoured to be around the $4000 mark and has a Super 35mm sensor, Cinema DNG raw recording and a very compact body with no fan.


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#2
OverCranked

Posted 14 January 2013 - 12:26 AM

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Let's haggle a bit here. No ProRes and no LCD ( OLED ! ) screen and no MFT lens mount .... hmmm I'll pay $2000 and we all know repair and warranty is going to be pain the wallet.

MBCC has nothing to worry about with this limited cam being rumoured at $4000.



#3
richg101

Posted 14 January 2013 - 12:42 AM

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I'm noticing all of these raw cameras seem to be designed by software designers who can use solidworks rather than industrial designers who know how things work in the real world, in the physical domain. Surely they could have made the whole thing longer and thinner, with some way to hold the damn thing. no matter what rig this is fitted to, this will remain a 'tripod mount only' setup just like the BMCC.

Lets see some ergonomics and great design rather than silly specs that try to compete against cameras most of us would just hire if we need them.

The reason this will be so cheap is that no real industrial designer was employed to do a proper job of designing the product itself (in a physical sense). Numerous other corners and oversights will have been made. Granted I bet the pictures out of this thing look nice though.
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#4
lafilm

Posted 14 January 2013 - 12:54 AM

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Agree 100%



#5
Tzedekh

Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:22 AM

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Not impressed. Too much is missing, especially CineForm RAW and ProRes. Also, any camera manufacturer should now be thinking at least 4K. And 11.5 stops of dynamic range, even if it's all usable, is a little underwhelming at this point.



#6
Ben Prater

Posted 14 January 2013 - 02:10 AM

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Not impressed. Too much is missing, especially CineForm RAW and ProRes. Also, any camera manufacturer should now be thinking at least 4K. And 11.5 stops of dynamic range, even if it's all usable, is a little underwhelming at this point.

 

It is important to look at the current landscape when judging a camera system. Right now, options under $5k are pretty limited. If you are doing Fx/greenscreen or need headroom in post for grading, you won't find many cameras shooting in RAW. Is the camera for everyone? Definitely not. But it will fit the bill for many people's projects.



#7
Xiong

Posted 14 January 2013 - 02:18 AM

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This is interesting, there was alot of people wanting a 35mm sized sensor so here you go I suppose. I like to know more info, more competition is always welcomed.


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#8
nahua

Posted 14 January 2013 - 02:22 AM

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This is interesting, there was alot of people wanting a 35mm sized sensor so here you go I suppose. I like to know more info, more competition is always welcomed.

 

I totally agree, we need more competition.  Sure it doesn't tick all the boxes of wants (neither does the BMCC), but damn it's a step in the right direction.  I think I'm way more excited for NAB this year!



#9
Andrew Reid

Posted 14 January 2013 - 02:28 AM

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Is it box ticking you want from a camera spend $55,000 and get the F55

 

If it is an amazing image for $4k you want then this certainly looks the ticket.

 

I can forgive the lack of ProRes. The add on recorder for CineForm is unlikely to be that expensive and Cinema DNG is better supported than CineForm at present.



#10
OverCranked

Posted 14 January 2013 - 02:59 AM

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I'm noticing all of these raw cameras seem to be designed by software designers who can use solidworks rather than industrial designers who know how things work in the real world, in the physical domain. Surely they could have made the whole thing longer and thinner, with some way to hold the damn thing. no matter what rig this is fitted to, this will remain a 'tripod mount only' setup just like the BMCC.

Lets see some ergonomics and great design rather than silly specs that try to compete against cameras most of us would just hire if we need them.

The reason this will be so cheap is that no real industrial designer was employed to do a proper job of designing the product itself (in a physical sense). Numerous other corners and oversights will have been made. Granted I bet the pictures out of this thing look nice though.

 

you mean something like " IKonoscop - A " camera ? Let's ask Andrew if he found the iKonoscop-A cam comfortable enough for shouldr mount.

Considering the feature set, how did you find the " rumoured $4K " price ?



#11
OverCranked

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:05 AM

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Dan Chung should try to explain the importance of linkage between camera and external recorders. Both ends must be solid and " Lockable ". My Ninja has turn to an expensive paper weight because of unreliable HDMI ports.



#12
Aggrotron

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:17 AM

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No battery?  Hopefully there's a solution for that because I'd love to use it (assuming it performs well etc etc).



#13
OverCranked

Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:10 AM

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Peculiar thing is that this " mini " rendition never was on the map. The KineRaw's website always had the super35 - Super16 and Super8 categories which mostly didn't have any content. On the other hand Dan Hudgins has been testing a pre-production KineRaw S8 for a couple years. His tests include an awesome anamorphic sample on Vimeo. Why there is no talk of S8 model ?



#14
wondo

Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:17 AM

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I'm noticing all of these raw cameras seem to be designed by software designers who can use solidworks rather than industrial designers who know how things work in the real world, in the physical domain. Surely they could have made the whole thing longer and thinner, with some way to hold the damn thing. no matter what rig this is fitted to, this will remain a 'tripod mount only' setup just like the BMCC.

Lets see some ergonomics and great design rather than silly specs that try to compete against cameras most of us would just hire if we need them.

The reason this will be so cheap is that no real industrial designer was employed to do a proper job of designing the product itself (in a physical sense). Numerous other corners and oversights will have been made. Granted I bet the pictures out of this thing look nice though.

 

well i don`t think industrial designers are involved in any "cinema grade" camera development on the market.

jim jannard`s intention on the epic was to make it look cool, but that guy never spend a day on set shooting.... and you see and feel that if you have to use his cameras..

alexa is a heavy shoebox with the display on the wrong side etc..

and sony just copied that design for the f5 + f55... but with the display on the right side this time!... the rest.. BOX

do you really sit straight behind the camera on lens hight? then the bmcc monitor is placed there especially for you...

 

you can clearly see that mainboards are square on all these camera "designs" :-)

so i don`t think that design plays a major role on the price.

 

11.5 stops bother me, the design flaws will be something you just have to live with..... as always....


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#15
andy lee

Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:14 AM

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I like the look of this , its modular so you can add it to a rig with battery and monitor

and a super 35mm sensor is great

as we are not in the 2x and 2.3x crops like other cameras.

 

would like to see some images from it soon!


Andy Lee
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'If it looks good , it is good!'


#16
Francesco Bollorino

Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:47 AM

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I totally agree in particular I do think that adopting the E-mount as option is a great solution and will enlarge the possibility to use FF lenses on the camera.

I hope they will find the "right" price point in order to reach our expectations



#17
Tzedekh

Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:54 PM

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It is important to look at the current landscape when judging a camera system. Right now, options under $5k are pretty limited. If you are doing Fx/greenscreen or need headroom in post for grading, you won't find many cameras shooting in RAW. Is the camera for everyone? Definitely not. But it will fit the bill for many people's projects.

 

Problem is, this camera isn't out now and probably won't be until later this year at the earliest. The only advantage -- and it's a minor one at best -- it appears to hold right now is that it's S35. Who knows what else is coming down the pike this year? I stand by my contention that any company announcing a new camera should probably consider 4K at minimum.



#18
Chrad

Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:02 PM

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I'm waiting for GoPro to throw their hat in the ring.



#19
HurtinMinorKey

Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:09 PM

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My biggest concern is that we won't even see this thing available until 2014. I really like the Kineraw s35 footage, but I'm starting to have serious doubts about these guys making it to market with these things.



#20
markm

Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:30 PM

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My biggest concern is that we won't even see this thing available until 2014. I really like the Kineraw s35 footage, but I'm starting to have serious doubts about these guys making it to market with these things.

I agree. It's vaporware. Like the digital Bolex. Almost like a look what we can do project.






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