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1D X has traces of 1D C firmware but Magic Lantern 'will never touch 1D series' as Canon threatens potential hackers with legal trouble


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#1 EOSHD

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:02 PM

Canon EOS 1D C 4K DSLR

A few months ago I reported back what Canon had told me officially at Photokina - that the 1D C had some very minor hardware changes over the 1D X (like a headphone socket) but that the camera was fundementally the same camera with a firmware update to enable 4K recording. The Canon product manager was technically knowledge and utterly adamant this was the case, there wasn't a hint of doubt in his eyes when I had this discussion face to face on the basis of mutual trust.

Later Canon were keen to point out I had got it all wrong and that the 1D C had a different circuit board, etc. etc. and was well worth your extra $6,000.

So why are there traces of 1D C firmware in the 1D X?



#2 gene_can_sing

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:12 PM

When this camera was announced in Nov of 2011 (a long time ago in tech), it seems really cool. But now, it just feels kind of dated. So many options came out in 2012 there no real reason to hack the 1D-X, much less buy a 1D-C. Especially with the Sony F5 coming out, Canon is going to get smoked.


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#3 Xiong

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:24 PM

Yeah this is really telling, well.. If we have someone who can hack the 1D X for 4K, then we'd have a $6,800 4K dslr. This is just kinda sad really...


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#4 nathanleebush

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:36 PM

Give 'em hell, Andrew! Everybody gets access by toeing the line, so glad to see you asking the tough questions.



#5 nathanleebush

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:42 PM

To be fair, a lot of the reps at these shows sometimes know less technically than I do about their own cameras, in my experience. So though they are speaking for the company, sometimes they are wrong. It doesn't seem to be the case here, but could explain your 720p on 5DIII anecdote. Sometimes they just don't know. They are reps, not engineers.


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#6 richg101

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:00 PM

it would be great if ML sorted out 5d3 owners with a s35 crop mode like the 1dc.  unscaled full 1080p would be a nice upgrade!


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#7 OverCranked

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:55 PM

In the OEM format this camera might be appealing to ARMY order desk or perhaps a few documentary producers in harsh conditions. Without the ML ( if they ever touch this ) masses will not pay for this camera - there are too many awesome alternatives out there now.

It's getting harder and harder to show up at paying jobs with DSLRs as main cameras, no matter how sophisticated your rig looks like.

We shot a conference last season on DSLRs - during the shoot a couple of guests came over and started asking about " Line Skipping " and " Rolling Shutter " problems. Then while walking away one of them made a sweeping gesture with her finger towards all ( five ) Canon 5DIIs and said they all have the same problems. Almost everybody heard it and many heads made quick turn to cameras and reverse turn towards me standing behind a trickedup rig with $10,000 worth of rig, EVF, MatteBox, ... - WTF. That was two days in Hell. Since , we are shooting on FS100s and nearly all the camera crew are happy with the shoot experience and the editing department keeps thanking the shooters.

Move away from this stupidity people. There are much better options out there - and no ! RED is not one of them.



#8 Bruno

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:58 PM

Even if the hardware is the same, I would expect Canon to have different firmwares and not include the 1DC stuff in the 1DX firmaware, so it wouldn't be just a matter of turning it on.


Most of Magic Lantern's tools are written by them to run on the Canon cameras, there's a few Canon settings they can mess with, but most of the cool stuff is all ML software running on the cameras.



#9 FilmMan

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:01 PM



So why are there traces of 1D C firmware in the 1D X?

Because the 1DC and the 1DX share some common ground?  stills?  regular 1080p video?  A lot of extra work has gone into the 1DC.  Cheers.



#10 haarec

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:03 PM

Let people leave Canon cameras alone!

 

In the shop ;-)



#11 richg101

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:23 PM

We shot a conference last season on DSLRs - during the shoot a couple of guests came over and started asking about " Line Skipping " and " Rolling Shutter " problems. Then while walking away one of them made a sweeping gesture with her finger towards all ( five ) Canon 5DIIs and said they all have the same problems.


I'd have told her to go and do her nails or something. And pointed out to the men around her that in my opinion, the wide angle and low light ability of the full frame sensor more than makes up for these slight obstacles, and that even if the final product were (very unlikely) played on a display higher res than full hd, most of the viewers wouldnt notice the slightly soft line skipped 1080p anyway. I'd finally remind them that it was a conference setting where we are not filming fast paced car chases or quick pans where rolling shutter becomes an issue.

No one, and i mean no one with any idea about anything would question a man working with a 1DC, -unless they were jealous they didn't get the job that is!

In every situation like this there are 'do-ers' and 'talk-ers'. Usually it's the talkers who outweight the man who is actually doing something.
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#12 HurtinMinorKey

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:53 PM

mqdefault.jpg

 

A wise man once said, "They're not gonna kill shit, they're not gonna do shit. What can they do? They're a bunch of fuckin' amateurs"

 

FU Canon


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#13 matt2491

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:47 PM

Its depressing, because, honestly, I want the 1DC! If it were at a more accessible price-point, it would've done incredibly well in the hands of indie filmmakers and documentarians!

 

It is a dream camera for many. 4K in a DSLR form factor. Its just such a shame that Canon chose to price it out of reach.



#14 EOSHD

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:56 PM

To be fair, a lot of the reps at these shows sometimes know less technically than I do about their own cameras, in my experience. So though they are speaking for the company, sometimes they are wrong. It doesn't seem to be the case here, but could explain your 720p on 5DIII anecdote. Sometimes they just don't know. They are reps, not engineers.

 

They were not sales reps, I can't stress this enough. They were product managers in charge of the whole spec whose job it is to work with Japan to form a product.



#15 EOSHD

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:57 PM



So why are there traces of 1D C firmware in the 1D X?

Because the 1DC and the 1DX share some common ground?  stills?  regular 1080p video?  A lot of extra work has gone into the 1DC.  Cheers.

 

The firmware features are exclusive to the 1D C, and disabled in the 1D X code.



#16 kabuto1138

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:06 AM

Mother F&^%^%s!!

 

This is the last straw for me... good buy CANON.

 

Happy New year to everyone BTW



#17 Sean Cunningham

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:10 AM


 A lot of extra work has gone into the 1DC.  Cheers.

 

Obviously this is not the case.  Unless those red badges are lovingly hand made, complete with tiny bubbles and imperfections, proof they were crafted by the honest, simple, hard-working indigenous peoples of … wherever.


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#18 kabuto1138

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:16 AM

Obviously this is not the case.  Unless those red badges are lovingly hand made, complete with tiny bubbles and imperfections, proof they were crafted by the honest, simple, hard-working indigenous peoples of … wherever.

 

 

... I was holding.



#19 Leang

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:45 AM

if they're worried that it can get hacked then that's some funny and sad politics.  It's hard to believe that Canon would be worried that "videographers" would beat pro photographers in sales?  Maybe they're worried that attempted hacks make the warranty agreements a lot more complicated?  what's a the 1D X for then?  A RAW still frame from any premier camera is processed differently than a video stream or capture.  they shouldn't be worried about this...if this rumor is true to begin with... 



#20 Joe Rivera

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:06 AM

Canon isn't the only behemoth corporation at risk of falling by the wayside because it uses blundering marketing tactics to try and keep itself relevant in a changing industry. The key to survival is simplification and innovation, not bait-and-switch.

 

Rather than wasting time lying to consumers by creating false delineations between product lines, Canon should be thinking about the role of the camera in 2013 and how to cut down their product line to a few incredibly compelling offerings, rather than creating a bunch of fake steps between ranges using dubious spec differences.

 

Why do we need: T3i, T4i, 70D, 7D MKII, 6D, 5D MKIII, 1DX, 1DC

Not to mention the 4,000 compact cameras in their lineup?

 

The technology exists to boil these down to 3, maybe 4 great cameras that offer unexpected quality and specs at each level and that have appeal across several consumer types. Canon just doesn't want to do it because they are desperate to hold on to past market segmentations and too lazy to learn to market a leaner lineup. 

 

Canon's also afraid of cannibalizing their own market, but the truth is there's always been a false differentiation made with price points. The difference now is that there are so many new and interesting options, consumers don't have to play by those rules anymore. Realistically, offering a small selection of highly specced, well-crafted cameras could put Canon on top again and give them the economy of scale to produce great things at even lower price points. Sticking to their current methods will only guarantee that some lean, innovative company or rogue startup with nothing to lose will come along and leave Canon in the dust by beating them to it (see: Blackmagic).

 

It's too bad, because I've enjoyed Canon products (as a hobbyist stills photographer, I'm not a videographer) and even just a year ago wouldn't have considered switching. But I can't help but get excited over what Fujifilm, Olympus and Panasonic are doing. Within three years (if that) the images from those cameras will be astounding and who will want to carry around a big brick DSLR and 10 pounds of glass anymore? Only those who have done it so long they can't be bothered to change. New generations will look at a 5D MKIII and laugh the way we laugh now about cell phones from the 1960's.

 

The days of checking off boxes of what you can leave out of your products in order to hit a lucrative price point while fooling customers are over. We're in a golden era of offering MORE and BETTER. The big boys like Canon and Nikon will fall like dominoes. Want an example? — just look at Microsoft, RIM, HP ... the list goes on.


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