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Editing raw video on a $900 Hackintosh as well as on a $5000 Mac Pro


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#21 EOSHD

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 03:34 PM

Greetings.  This article focuses on proceeding through the loops and hurdles on how to build a Hackintosh  (and I appreciate this guideline) to avoid the high price of exorbitantly overpriced and outdated MacPro equivalent.  To avoid all the hassles associated with the Hackintosh route,  and this is a long shot maybe,  what do you think about a relatively inexpensive system spec'd as follows:


MacMini 2012

Core i7

16GB RAM

SSD 512GB internal.

External 3TB x2 striped (RAID0) over USB3 ports. (TB ports as alternative)

External 27" monitor 2560 x 1440 (not Apple's Cinema display).

 

I guess the weak link here perhaps is the Intel Integrated 4000 graphics.  Alternative to this, I am thinking the new 27" iMac 27" with Core i7 and max'ing the RAM to 32GB. 

 

Fine if you are not editing raw natively in Resolve. You need NVidia CUDA for that and none of the Mac Minis have a powerful enough graphics processor for raw editing.



#22 tomekk

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 06:44 PM

most people go mac because they think it makes them more creative and professional - I love seeing these idiots flaunting thier apple macbook pro's on the train. though not worth 4 times what an equivalent windows based machine costs, an apple is better overall. the hackintosh idea brings the benefits of the apple workflow, to a pricepoint the same as a windows pc. The 'Hassle' isnt really hassle, but more effort.

The argument is that Apple is losing it's edge due to a change in direction and windowns is improving meaning the apple benefits are getting smaller. I still prefer my hackintosh than any other pc. It runs smoother and with less hassle than any pc I have ever owned, from custom builds to off the shelf dells etc

 

Windows will never beat unix in stability/performance. Apple hasn't designed this system. Just to make things clear.



#23 tomekk

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 06:44 PM

most people go mac because they think it makes them more creative and professional - I love seeing these idiots flaunting thier apple macbook pro's on the train. though not worth 4 times what an equivalent windows based machine costs, an apple is better overall. the hackintosh idea brings the benefits of the apple workflow, to a pricepoint the same as a windows pc. The 'Hassle' isnt really hassle, but more effort.

The argument is that Apple is losing it's edge due to a change in direction and windowns is improving meaning the apple benefits are getting smaller. I still prefer my hackintosh than any other pc. It runs smoother and with less hassle than any pc I have ever owned, from custom builds to off the shelf dells etc

 

Windows will never beat unix in stability/performance. Apple hasn't designed this system. Apple is using PC hardware. Apple is just brilliant marketing nowadays. Just to make things clear.

btw. They're going down. Steve Jobs won't help them anymore. Keep an eye on APPL stock price for a proof. They  won't reach new highs anymore. Probability of this is close to 0% imho.



#24 ipcmlr

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 06:50 PM

I thought the whole reason to be on Mac was to avoid the "hassle" of windows.  This hackintosh stuff all sounds like a big hassle. Just suck it up and come back to windows. 


That's what I was thinking too... If you accidentally do an OSX update aren't you screwed for another few days?
Never tried hackintosh so don't really know.

#25 karoliina

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 09:45 AM

There is this easier option for Resolve: it also runs on Linux. Run Ubuntu on the fast machine with fast Geforce 680. Very easy to setup and very similar operating system to OSX. I have several Macs and then the biggest number crunchers run Linux. Blender is therefore ran on Linux natively (3d animation/compositing). Also I do not need to use 5dtorgb converter with my DSLR footage since 5dtorgb uses ffmpeg to do the conversion. I use ffmpeg directly from command line, it is fully scriptable, and my footage converts by itself after I run my script convert.


Even better: add huge raid to this Linux machine and share the drive to network and mount it from your Macs to access it with FCPX. If gigabit ethernet is in between, the speed is reasonable. Macs and Ubuntus live very nicely together. They are almost cousins from technical perspective unlike OSX vs. Windows which have about nothing in common.


I have been tempted to try Hackintosh though to run FCPX and Motion fast.


#26 cseeman

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 10:57 PM

Please don't confuse the i7 processors with the Xeon processors found in MacPros

 

i7 which are "desktop"

http://www.intel.com...?select=desktop

Xeon which are "server" class processors

http://www.intel.com...l?select=server

 

You really haven't built a MacPro. You're closer to a 2011 iMac (Sandy Bridge i7) with some modifications.

Granted the MacPros haven't had a processor upgrade since 2010 (except for a minor speed bump). I'd expect the 2013 MacPro replacement will be using at lease Sandy Bridge Xeons. Xeons tend to be 1 generation behind. Current i7 is Ivy Bridge. Current Xeon is Sandy Bridge.

 

You might find this article interesting

http://www.theinquir...i7-3960x-review

 

If you look at PCs with Xeon comparable Xeon processors, they are comparable to MacPro (when they were comparable in 2010) and my hunch will be in 2013 when MacPros get replaced.


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#27 pask74

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 11:47 PM

I'm coming from an Apple background but I'm also quite used to Windows.

Seeing Apple going for the consumer-electronics market more than for the media professionals, I'm considering switching to Windows ... even though I much prefer the look and feel of OSX.

 

Reading this article, I'm wondering if investing in a proper PC would not be an easier solution. Recommended and tested configurations are available for Resolve - wouldn't this be the safest route?



#28 tokyojerry

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 12:03 AM

I think the grafik power of the mac mini is the grafic card...

 

Did anyone ever use an external Grafic - Card from Matrox?? There are several external boxes ... http://www.voelkner....campaign=C42905

 

@Jens, thanks for that tip.  I never thought of doing an external, outside the mac mini for graphics solution.  In fact, I did not such solutions even existed.  I will look into this as a viable option.  I just don't want to 'buy in' to Apple's Mac Pro.  (never did).  Apple pays too little attention to machine.  And besides,  they are exorbitantly over-priced.    But, I think the Nvidia Cuda is being recommended as the (only?) solution for dealing with Resolve and raw video.  But, if one is not concerned about raw video and just doing ordinary video editting in FCP-X, I imagine the MacMini configuration I specified earlier on up in this thread should suffice to do efficient production.


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#29 tokyojerry

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 12:13 AM

@pask74

I'm coming from an Apple background but I'm also quite used to Windows.

Seeing Apple going for the consumer-electronics market more than for the media professionals, I'm considering switching to Windows ... even though I much prefer the look and feel of OSX.

 

Reading this article, I'm wondering if investing in a proper PC would not be an easier solution. Recommended and tested configurations are available for Resolve - wouldn't this be the safest route?

 

I think I like Karoliina's suggestion on how to deal with this.  

 

There is this easier option for Resolve: it also runs on Linux. Run Ubuntu on the fast machine with fast Geforce 680. Very easy to setup and very similar operating system to OSX. I have several Macs and then the biggest number crunchers run Linux. Blender is therefore ran on Linux natively (3d animation/compositing). Also I do not need to use 5dtorgb converter with my DSLR footage since 5dtorgb uses ffmpeg to do the conversion. I use ffmpeg directly from command line, it is fully scriptable, and my footage converts by itself after I run my script convert.



Even better: add huge raid to this Linux machine and share the drive to network and mount it from your Macs to access it with FCPX. If gigabit ethernet is in between, the speed is reasonable. Macs and Ubuntus live very nicely together. They are almost cousins from technical perspective unlike OSX vs. Windows which have about nothing in common.


I have been tempted to try Hackintosh though to run FCPX and Motion fast.

 

 

Rather then Apple and their MacPro (too little change too seldom and waaay overpriced),   and the stigma of Windows (don't think I want to return to Windows for all it stands for),   Karoliina  mentions an Ubuntu Linux solution.  You can choose/build the machine of your choice,  and Ubuntun, also built on Linux and 64-bit,  is free.  May require some work to build, but, I imagine it will be far less hassle then a 'hackintosh' route.

 

Jerry
Tokyo, Japan

#30 hmcindie

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 12:37 PM

Forget Windows 8. Stick to 7. It's a very stable, professional OS. OS X is a kids tool compared and Windows 8 is a weird joke.

 

You can easily build a great Xeon/i7 pc for quite a bit less cash than an equivalent mac. Actually you won't even get an equivalent mac. PC's just go way higher in performance/cost, especially when self build.

 

One thing about graphics cards... The GTX690 is an absolute monster. You can run Resolve in two gpu mode with it. After Effects raytracing utilises all the cores. It blows the GTX580 (which is old and discontinued anyway). The only problem is Premiere, you have to disable one of the gpu's for Premiere to work. Thankfully that happens with a couple of clicks. It costs a grand but still way less than Quadro cards.

 

One thing about Ubuntu is software support. If you do a lot of editing, vfx work and just generally are in the biz, you need an OS that has good software support. Ubuntu can be used for certain things but I wouldn't recommend it as a general OS for everything.

 

cseeman: You were kinda comparing different things there. Xeon processors and i7's are not really that different. That article actually compared TWO xeon processors to one i7. If you plan on going one CPU, go with i7's. They are cheaper and clock higher.


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#31 Leang

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 01:46 PM

Forget Windows 8. Stick to 7. It's a very stable, professional OS. OS X is a kids tool compared and Windows 8 is a weird joke.

 

You can easily build a great Xeon/i7 pc for quite a bit less cash than an equivalent mac. Actually you won't even get an equivalent mac. PC's just go way higher in performance/cost, especially when self build.

 

One thing about graphics cards... The GTX690 is an absolute monster. You can run Resolve in two gpu mode with it. After Effects raytracing utilises all the cores. It blows the GTX580 (which is old and discontinued anyway). The only problem is Premiere, you have to disable one of the gpu's for Premiere to work. Thankfully that happens with a couple of clicks. It costs a grand but still way less than Quadro cards.

 

One thing about Ubuntu is software support. If you do a lot of editing, vfx work and just generally are in the biz, you need an OS that has good software support. Ubuntu can be used for certain things but I wouldn't recommend it as a general OS for everything.

 

cseeman: You were kinda comparing different things there. Xeon processors and i7's are not really that different. That article actually compared TWO xeon processors to one i7. If you plan on going one CPU, go with i7's. They are cheaper and clock higher.

 

Windows 8 runs smooth.  I haven't had one problem since upgrading from 7.  I've been rocking Premiere since v5.  my rig for the last year has been an i7 990x 24gb board initially running a GTX 590 (dual or single mode) and moving to Quadro cards.  They are DEFINITELY better in CS territory or editing.  GTX is for gaming.  at least that's what nVidia markets it like on their site.  if people are trying to kill two birds with one stone and assume that because it has CUDA technology it would work just fine then that's where the problem starts.  and its not like nVidia is going to discourage you from buying any of their cards..



#32 Jens Schwoon

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 08:33 PM

@Jens, thanks for that tip.  I never thought of doing an external, outside the mac mini for graphics solution.  In fact, I did not such solutions even existed.  I will look into this as a viable option.  I just don't want to 'buy in' to Apple's Mac Pro.  (never did).  Apple pays too little attention to machine.  And besides,  they are exorbitantly over-priced.    But, I think the Nvidia Cuda is being recommended as the (only?) solution for dealing with Resolve and raw video.  But, if one is not concerned about raw video and just doing ordinary video editting in FCP-X, I imagine the MacMini configuration I specified earlier on up in this thread should suffice to do efficient production.

 

I do understand... I will buy myself a matrox card in the early future.. and try it out



#33 Promit Roy

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 10:12 PM

I've got no love for Macs or Mac OSX, but I am generally pretty fond of iPads. I'm also an app developer, which necessitates owning a Mac of some sort. Have been chugging along with a 2009 Macbook Pro for a while, pushed to the limits with memory and SSD upgrades. A Hackintosh is awfully tempting though... since it's iOS development I don't need a very heavy machine, our serious high end stuff is Windows based anyways. So I'm also looking at a Mac Mini or iMac as possible upgrades.

 

On the other hand the Retina MBP exists. Dang.



#34 tokyojerry

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:50 PM

I have no love for Macs and their high ticket-price for readily available components off the shelf either.  The primary attraction is the OS-X (versus the alternative, Windows).  iPad I also have.  I am here checking out the world of Android as a more open environment and an alternative to the Apple-controlled world of iOS.   If Hackintoshes were a bit more straightforward,  I might go that route.  But,  if it starts becoming to geeky and tinkering,  I'd rather have something that works out of the box.  When you buy a car, you want to stick the key in the ignition and go from point A to point B.  You don't want to start tinkering with radiator belt adjustments,  spark plugs, etc.

I'll see what sort of power I can push from the 2012 Sandy Bridge quad core i7 MacMini with 16GB of RAM and 512GB SSD.  Graphics though is the weak link for video editting.  If not doing raw video, then the Intel integrated 4000 should be OK.  Earlier, an external solution using a matrox card was suggested.  I may try that myself,  but, need to confirm if will make that much more of an improvement for video editting, conversions, etc., to justify the cost versus using only the internal Intel HD Graphics 4000


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#35 riogrande100

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 01:52 AM

First off i work for Microsoft however this thread is somewhat an oxy moron, from saying not to use Windows because it is unstable but to use a hackintosh is a contradiction. Apple nor any PC manufacturer supports hackintosh, which means support is non existent no driver updates, no firmware patches etc! Also a Hackintosh is no way as stable as a PC running windows. 

 

As for Windows is it stable? well do fortune 500 companies use Windows? YES!!!

 

As for ease of use, I have used both Macs and PCs both to anyone with common sense are easy to use! For people who go on about Windows being hard, let me ask you do you use right click? On a mac enabling right click is something that needs to be configured!

 

Windows 8? Has anyone here used it yet? I am running win 8 and it is stable! 

 

I myself recently migrated all my photos from Aperture on a Mac to Lightroom on a PC? Why the cost of PC hardware is far cheaper, and an iMac upgrade cannot accommodate an internal hard drive expansion without validating warranty! 

 

Each OS has its strengths and weaknesses, it comes down to preference and what you worf flow requires!



#36 tomekk

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 06:07 AM

 

Each OS has its strengths and weaknesses, it comes down to preference and what you worf flow requires!

 

and it all comes down to budget/economics. Do I want to save 4 grand and spend x days playing with hackintosh? If money earned in x days is far less than 4k then maybe yeah. If I earn far more than 4k in x days then fuck it. etc. etc.



#37 pask74

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 08:42 AM

... Ubuntu can be used for certain things but I wouldn't recommend it as a general OS for everything.

 

That is my problem.

Linux is a very tempting route but I definitely need an all-in-one machine for both editing, grading and running audio apps.

My core business being audio, running Linux unfortunately sounds like a no-solution due to the limited plug-ins availability.

It's a real shame as I would definitely prefer Linux over Windows in terms of philosophy.



#38 plochmann

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 01:47 PM

Without getting too deep, and in hopes of avoiding debate- I think buffered RAM is a big part of the Mac fidelity and 4-5 years ago, this is most of what you were paying for.  Now, you can buy it without having to buy Mac.  I see a lot of Hackintosh builds out there that go for the fast I7 and regular DDR3 RAM, and I think this is a mistake.  I personally would go for a Xeon processor and the EEC RAM.  RAID is also very important.  I see my processors and RAM barely working unless I'm using RAID.  



#39 HurtinMinorKey

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 08:25 PM

Although Xeon processors have a bigger cache, which makes them faster at some tasks, their biggest advantage is that they allow for more ram. But these days I think 32GB of RAM is plenty for editing video.


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#40 tokyojerry

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 09:49 PM

Although Xeon processors have a bigger cache, which makes them faster at some tasks, their biggest advantage is that they allow for more ram. But these days I think 32GB of RAM is plenty for editing video.

 

.....and, even the new iMac 27" will accommodate 32GB of user-installable (for now) RAM.  I am doing editting (not raw video) with 16GB of RAM in my 2012 MacMini.


Jerry
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