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The EOSHD Blackmagic Cinema Camera Shootout


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#81 Anil Rao

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:16 PM

Outstanding time and effort into this Andrew, but I still can't help but be floored by the GH2 in all the shots. The GH3, given it's a pre-model, looks whack next to it and even the BMCC didn't really stand out, your own cinemascope films shot even on the GH1 were far more gorgeous in their presentation, and that always has to be what this shooting game is only about... about how it makes you feel rather than what's under the hood. At the end of the day that is what only matters, what you craft, how you shape and ultimately, how you you see something, being the image maker, not what makes you the image, although to some extent that does matter :)
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The word impossible is not in my dictionary, just everyone elses!

#82 EOSHD

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 05:49 PM

The GH2 is still amazing. It can probably be had for less than $600 now which is just staggering considering that in some ways it is better than the GH3 because of the video optimised sensor. The GH3 is more optimised for stills (Panasonic trying to catch up with Canon for mass market sales).

#83 markm

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 06:39 PM

@markm
nobody even talked about camera color filter array before sony start to use it as a marketing tool...
i dont remember that anybody ask that question when arri alexa , red epic or any other camera announced...
why? because its not important ...when u make raw camera u use wide gamut dye (not that for rec 709) ...
and more bits camera have, color gamut is wider ...
so u basically ask do i get four wheels when i buy a car ... :)
so dont ask question if dont know what are your asking ..
its ignorant...
ps:and when sony state that they going to use f65 camera color filter on f55 what they really say is that they decide to cripple f5 with wrong one ....

All I would like to know was some information about the colour filter array on the BMC as we know the camera has been made super cheap We know they had problems with the sensor so whats wrong wrong with asking about the Colour filter array under the circumstances I think its quite a logical thing to enquire about. Oh and by the way I do know what I'm asking Why do you think I don't? Look fine if you dont know Doesnt mean you have to answer it by saying its not important OF COURSE its important its a very important step in creating the picture so how important is that?

#84 Bruno

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 06:49 PM

The GH2 is still amazing. It can probably be had for less than $600 now which is just staggering considering that in some ways it is better than the GH3 because of the video optimised sensor. The GH3 is more optimised for stills (Panasonic trying to catch up with Canon for mass market sales).


It can be bought today (black Friday) for $499 with the kit lens!
It's time to move on though isn't it? We'd expect a follow up camera to be much more than te GH3 turned out to be, especially when they claimed they were focusing on the video aspect more.

#85 andy lee

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 07:58 PM

colour filter array...why is markm so into this?
all these cameras are all Bayer pattern sensors ......

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#86 galenb

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 08:01 PM

I think it's seem pretty obvious to me now that the BMCC soundly trounces the DSLRs. But, what I want to see now is how it stacks up against the higher end cameras like the C300, Scarlet, Alexa, etc. I keep hearing that it's a baby Alexa but then everyone seems to keeps referring to it as a "B" camera or that it's not meant for Pro filmmakers. I'd like to see someone back those points up with some footage. So far everything I've seen suggests that it's every bit as good as the higher end cameras. Maybe the rolling shutter is a bit worse but other than that, I can't visually see anything that makes the footage look unprofessional. Quite the contrary to my eyes.

And yeah, I totally agree about how good the GH2 look in these test. It's clearly the best DSLR for video out of the bunch. Just under the BMCC (in ProRes) in quality. Such an amazing bargain!
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#87 cameraboy

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 08:02 PM

@markm
basically u want to know quality of dye used in color filter of BMC....
i dont think that there is a way to know ...
maybe i someone would send his camera to lab so they can took sensor and test it ....
but if BMC use CIS 2051 (and i m sure that it is ) then its top quality ...
because that sensor is used in medical imaging and diagnostics and color quality for that applications is essential ...
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#88 EOSHD

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 09:38 PM

Colour is absolutely superb on this camera.

#89 markm

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 10:24 PM

I think it's seem pretty obvious to me now that the BMCC soundly trounces the DSLRs. But, what I want to see now is how it stacks up against the higher end cameras like the C300, Scarlet, Alexa, etc. I keep hearing that it's a baby Alexa but then everyone seems to keeps referring to it as a "B" camera or that it's not meant for Pro filmmakers. I'd like to see someone back those points up with some footage. So far everything I've seen suggests that it's every bit as good as the higher end cameras. Maybe the rolling shutter is a bit worse but other than that, I can't visually see anything that makes the footage look unprofessional. Quite the contrary to my eyes.

galenb thats exactly what I want to know how well would it stack up against an Alexa
Cameraboy Yes I want to know how high the quality is on the CFA
Andrew I accept what your saying. Just some doubt thrown into the room by others and cameraboy probably had it right in an earlier post about the Sony F55 Looking for ways to justify its enormous price tag.

So how much water does this argument hold? Thats why I'm asking about the CFA to find out whether Sony have any grounds to say the F55 will give a better picture than a BMC Personally I think not by any noticeable degree but the question is there.

#90 andy lee

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 02:46 AM

Sony Make their own sensors
I sat through 2 lectures last week by Sony UK at the BVE North exhibition in Manchester on the F65 and F55 cameras.the F65 has a unique sensor that squeezes the red and blue in alternate lines between the greenIt is NOT a Bayer Pattern sensor and the data off this sensor is 7 gig a second!they compress it down to 2 gig a second so its usable.Sony are way ahead of everyone on Sensor design.....this is a True 4K sensor .........in terms of true pixels its nearer 8k Sony where sayingPosted Imagethe F55 is 4K but its not the same sensor - its a 4K Bayer in the same way that the Red Epic sensor is 4k ...ish

The F65 with its mechanical shutter and unique sensor is the bench mark at the moment.

The F55 is aimed by Sony directly at the Arri Alexa market.
I was talking with Milan Krsljanin of Arri and they have penetrated the TV drama golbal market massively over the past 18 months - in the USA and UK heavily, Downtown Abbey, Dallas etc even BBC - Casualty TV drama and BBC Childrens Drama showS (DP - Tony Coldwell)are now shot on Alexa.

So Sony have to break into this market and they hope Global shutter on the F55 will tempt
TV drama production and feature films over to the F55 .
It will be hard as Arri now has such a lead in this market.


Posted Image

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#91 markm

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 08:16 AM

Andy

great post. Thats where future advancements lay ahead. The development of the CFA and why an Alexa doesn't match film. I think Roger Deakin was to quick to embrace digital with an Alexa. Hopefully now with Sony leading the way we will get something that actually does begin to match film. I'd love to get hold of a sony f55 and see what it can do.

#92 cameraboy

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 09:04 AM

that sensor design tech is used in their cleavid camcoder sensor few years ago ...
and is not that new fuji use similar pixel patern for their ccd EXR ...
an yes its a first real 4k cam with great DR...

but color of the sony f65 is least thing i like in that camera ....
sony f35 has a lot better organic colors ...

#93 markm

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 10:47 AM

I think the manufacturers are going in the right direction. Maybe something in between what Sonys f65 CFA can do and say an Alexa. I definately dont like the washed out look you get from an Alexa.

Be interesting to see what a hollywood film looks like shot on an F65
http://www.hollywood...arth-nab-311981

I have a good feeling about this. Just hope companies like Black Magic catch on to improving their CFA technology by pushing sensor manufacturers otherwise it could be back to high and low end again for us. I feel sorry for films like Skyfall though that I think are left in limbo land as far as the future is concerned. (Should have shot on film) Great move forward by Sony though Got to admire their development dept

#94 cameraboy

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 11:25 AM

this camera is peace of art for itself ....
http://www.texascame...e-delta-camera/
going opposite from big players trend and use CCD ...
perfect...

#95 markm

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 03:45 PM

this camera is peace of art for itself ....
http://www.texascame...e-delta-camera/
going opposite from big players trend and use CCD ...
perfect...

Has some very interesting developments. That is a camera I'd like to test as well.One thimg that adds to films overall resolution is the fact the grain is different every frame This tries to do the same by moving the sensor half a pixel on each frame as well as global shutter and CCD's

#96 haarec

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:14 PM

Posted Image

I found it here: vimeo.com/54141436 - about 1:31 BMCC with a serious night shot problem.

#97 EOSHD

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:35 PM

Wow that's not good.

Doesn't clicking 'recover highlights' in Resolve fix this?

Do you have a DNG of that frame above so I can test?

#98 Mark Virtue

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:53 PM

That looks like the sensor well overflowed. I'm trying to find links to documents that actually describe the phenomena and am failing right now. It's more common with CCD sensors if my memory serves me correctly. The normal fix is in firmware to cap the value and not flip the bit to a negative number.

#99 Mark Virtue

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:55 PM

Found one reference on reduser: http://www.reduser.n...hp/t-28247.html

#100 galenb

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:07 PM

Interesting. Looks like fold-back clipping... Or maybe that's wrap clipping? I can't remember now what it's called. We see it all the time in Ray Tracing.




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